Contradiction: Matthew vs. John

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praestat_fides

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In Matthew’s Gospel, the women come to the tomb, watch the angel roll the stone away and then are told by that angel that Jesus had risen. They are told to spread the good news to the 12 and they leave with fear and joy.

In John’s Gospel, Mary arrives at the tomb which is already open and empty. She is weeping because she has no idea where the body is. She then tells the disciples that she doesn’t know where Jesus’ body is. There is no mention of an angel. Then she sees the gardener who eventually reveals himself to be the Risen Jesus.

These two stories sound so contradictory and that has always puzzled me. CAF:What are your thoughts? :confused:
 
One popular seminary-level answer is this: the gospels aren’t literal accounts in the sense of modern biographies. John’s Gospel especially contains highly-scripted and symbolic sequences that are based on historical events, but which have been idealized in order to effectively communicate theological truth. Have you noticed that the Transfiguration is entirely absent from John? Or that while the synoptics describe the whip-in-the-temple incident as the final straw leading to Christ’s crucifixion, in John’s Gospel it happens in chapter 2, at the beginning, rather than the end of Christ’s public ministry? It is possible to harmonize the synoptic and the Johannine gospels, but perhaps this requires us to ignore the giant red flags John included in his gospel chronology.

Another, less-controversial answer is this: the details in Matthew are less specific, whereas John focuses much more on the emotional experience of a single woman. John’s Gospel does not say Mary is by herself, without the other women, and the use of the plural “we” (“we do not know where they have taken the body”) could indicate that Mary was one of the primary parties, but not the only woman present; she may be speaking for, or represent, a group of women. Therefore, the details of her individual encounter with the risen Lord may be blurred together with the experience of multiple women in Matthew or John. Personally, I find this to be an unattractive solution.

Some (Catholic and Protestant) scholars think that the author(s) of John’s Gospel were familiar with the synoptic traditions, and–at least in part–formulated the Johannine account with those traditions in mind. Therefore, contradictions between the four gospels should not alarm us, but prompt us to ask: why didn’t they think it was important to neatly harmonize everything? Reading the longer ending of Mark (Mark 16.9-end), it is obvious that they COULD have synthesized a more-satisfactory ending, but didn’t. This could indicate that the priorities of the evangelists who wrote the gospels were different from modern historical critics of the Bible who approach the text with a legal-literal framework in mind.
 
1newcatholic said:
This could indicate that the priorities of the evangelists who wrote the gospels were different from modern historical critics of the Bible who approach the text with a legal-literal framework in mind.
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Or, to put it another way, they were Semites not Germans.

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This is my thinking. Eyewitness reports of an event aren’t always totally accurate. People often aren’t expecting the event and may miss something and fill in the blanks in their mind. Police report this happens when they interview eyewitnesses after a crime. Each person’s details of what happened may vary but they all agree the crime occurred. These discrepancies once bothered me when I tried to make every detail in each gospel fit together into one story. They now make the gospels more credible to me. While some of the details may vary, they all agree the tomb was empty. If the story was a fabrication then the editors of the bible would have taken out any details that didn’t match and created just one gospel. This is what accomplices do after a crime. They all agree on one lie to tell the police. The editors of the gospels didn’t do this. They thought each individual gospel was important enough to preserve as it had been handed down.
 
One writer is speaking from hindsight, the other is just a snapshot in time, in the moment.
The gospels do not show us the complete movie from start to finish, but gives us pictures, here and there, some with hindsight understanding others of what one is feeling at the moment. In Hebrews, we are told it is possible to be around angels and not know it. But, in hindsight, one looks back and says, there was something odd about…
 
OK, but the word of God cannot have contradictions…how then can we say that scripture is error free if what you are all saying is true?
 
praestat_fides said:
OK, but the word of God cannot have contradictions…how then can we say that scripture is error free if what you are all saying is true?
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The entire purpose of the Scriptures is salvation. Your salvation is why God inspired the writers to write the way they did and whether it happened exactly the way each writer says is completely irrelevant.

What matters is what God want’s you to know so that you can spend eternity with him. That is what we should always ask ourselves - what is God trying to teach me with these words. Whether the stone was rolled away first or after misses that point.

-Tim-
 
praestat_fides said:
OK, but the word of God cannot have contradictions…how then can we say that scripture is error free if what you are all saying is true?
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It is not a contradiction because of vantage point of the writer of those accounts. Both are eye witnesses giving us their understanding ---- one from hindsight, the other in the moment.

For example, looking at the free will vs predestination debate from an eternal-est mindset. Some texts are written from God’s perspective of seeing all of time at once, others are written from our limited perspective in time. Since, we are in time, we are to push on in the race while remembering that Jesus is the author and finisher of our salvation. In Eph 2:10 I think it says God set up good works for us to walk in. God knows what those good works are and put them there for us to do in his power. But, being a creature of time, we do not know all those good works are at any given moment.

Bottom line, each eye witness account is written from perspectives of time, understanding, Moment vs reflection or hindsight after the fact.
 
The Augustine quote is interesting and a good answer.

I think someone pointed out police taking reports and they know one given days later may have extra details that were created by false memory and some may have an insight or real detail that would slove the crime. That is why they compare a statement given at the time of the crime with later statements for the purpose discerning what likely happened.
 
NotAllHere said:
The Augustine quote is interesting and a good answer.

I think someone pointed out police taking reports and they know one given days later may have extra details that were created by false memory and some may have an insight or real detail that would slove the crime. That is why they compare a statement given at the time of the crime with later statements for the purpose discerning what likely happened.
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OK fair enough. I can see your point. If we’re talking about weather Jesus rode into Jerusalem on one donkey or two donkeys. Perhaps one author forgot to mention that there were two animals, so another author astutely inserts the second donkey to clear up the matter.

However, it is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile the fact that in Matthew’s gospel, Mary witnesses an angel moving back the stone and THEN she sees the empty tomb. That angel then tells her the whole story and she is overjoyed. vs. John’s gospel which reports that when she got there the tomb was already opened and she has no clue where the body is so she weeps! How can you reconcile those two versions??
 
praestat_fides said:
OK fair enough. I can see your point. If we’re talking about weather Jesus rode into Jerusalem on one donkey or two donkeys. Perhaps one author forgot to mention that there were two animals, so another author astutely inserts the second donkey to clear up the matter.

However, it is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile the fact that in Matthew’s gospel, Mary witnesses an angel moving back the stone and THEN she sees the empty tomb. That angel then tells her the whole story and she is overjoyed. vs. John’s gospel which reports that when she got there the tomb was already opened and she has no clue where the body is so she weeps! How can you reconcile those two versions??
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The answer to your question was given to you already and it was written by St. Augustin himself (a Church Father). Why the confusion? Haven’t you opened the link and read point #69? newadvent.org/fathers/1602324.htm
 
E_7 said:
The answer to your question was given to you already and it was written by St. Augustin himself (a Church Father). Why the confusion? Haven’t you opened the link and read point #69? newadvent.org/fathers/1602324.htm
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I’m not concerned with Augustine…I’m concerned with what YOU say. As someone living in the 21st century who is reading the two texts, how can one reconcile it?
 
praestat_fides said:
I’m not concerned with Augustine…I’m concerned with what YOU say. As someone living in the 21st century who is reading the two texts, how can one reconcile it?
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We don’t go by Scripture alone. Augustine explains us well that there are no contradictions and it is in perfect order. He explains “John informs us, came Mary Magdalene, who unquestionably was surpassingly more ardent in her love than these other women who had ministered to the Lord; so that it was not unreasonable in John to make mention of her alone, leaving those others unnamed, who, however, were along with her, as we gather from the reports given by others of the evangelists…” and more (if you could open your heart and listen…)
 
praestat_fides said:
I’m not concerned with Augustine…I’m concerned with what YOU say. As someone living in the 21st century who is reading the two texts, how can one reconcile it?
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If you never read anything, you will always be ignorant. Augustine explains it perfectly, and his explanation is totally relevant in the 21st century. Each of the gospels tells different parts of the SAME story.
 
The visions of Bl.Emmerch , a German nun , who was illiterate but to whom The Lord revealed many scenes of the world events from its creation on down , might be an easier read for some ;
Code: 
the events around the resurrection and the particular scene in question ,  is mentioned in pages 466-477 in the 4th volume of the books - Life of Jesus  Christ ( hopefully available on kindle ) ;
the somehwhat chaotic and complicated scene described in there helps one to also realise why the Apostles would not have written it in more detail ; there is also the factor of trust - if one has been with The Lord and His Apsotles to this point , then a few seeming discrepancies , well, if it serves to only helps one to say - ’ Lord I believe , help my unbelief ’ , that is not so bad either ; same for asking questions , which gives others who too might have struggled with similar points at one time , to be glad to be of help .

This is not pertaining to the question of O.P but another example of challenging bible verses - The Lord’s exhortation on dealing with those who are considered as enemies and turing the other cheek - Mathew 5 :39 ;

seems the emphasis there is to pray for hose who persecute and even the wording of turing the otther cheek - the left , in this case, which, when turned , is to one’s right side and the right is often symbolic in the bible, for the Lord’s mercy ;

Christians who want to serve the Kingdom can feel intimidated at the prospect of persecutions ; The Lord, in the scene of His own Passion, shows the example of turning the cheek ; He stood up for the truth when questioned , while slapped , thus possibly even having invited more of same and went all the way to The Cross , obtaining mercy and power of deliverance for all and thus inviting us to also make use of that mercy for the sinners - which would be all of us , with the oneness with the offender , thus to plead ,
’ have mercy on us ’ and possibly helping to break free the other too from enemy claims that keep persons in hatred and anger ;
It primarily also helps the offended from ahrboring unforgiveness which is the enemy trap to make us loose grace - knowing what The Lord expects of us ,
one knows one has to struggle to reach the point of truly being caring about and accessing The Lord’s mercy for oneself and the other ;

thus freed and allowed to have the flow of the Father’s love , in The Spirit , into hearts , enemies hopefully would no longer be trying to slap and steal !

In our times, invoking the intercession of bl.Mother into lives, esp.of those who are trying to persecute Christains , would be a responsibilty for us all and good thing
Pope Francis has again helped to focus attention , esp. for the Iraqui Christians !

Unsure though , if the verse - ’ when pressed to go one mile, go for two miles ’ is not about being of real help , which could include having all the militants and the like minded here and in other places as well , in camps , for as long as it takes , to help them to see The Truth !

Well, then again, our Kingdom is not of this world and repenting ,calling on the
Holy Spirit , in the truth of holy lives , on behalf of all in all our lives might be what we are called to do l !

God bless !
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Each of the gospels tells different parts of the SAME story.
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But that can’t be true.

In Matthew’s version, Mary arrives at the grave and an angel opens the grave in front of her eyes. In John’s version, Mary arrives and the grave is already open. Those are two different stories.

In Matthew’s version Mary is told immediately after the grave is opened that Jesus had risen. In John’s version Mary looks in the empty grave and then weeps because she doesn’t know where Jesus’ body is. Those are two different stories.
 
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