Contradiction: Matthew vs. John

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I’m fairly certain that “the point of scholarship” is a little bit broader than that. What you have described sounds like deconstructionism, although I’m not sure how you yourself can say with a straight face that “the point… is to show where it fails” and immediately follow with "not raise tedious points about “how it might be wrong.” Those are the same things: “demonstrating failures” and “raising particular issues of potential error or distortion” are part of the same scholarly package; the latter is a means of accomplishing the former.
I think you missed my point here.

What I claimed was that authentic scholarship will engage with a contentious point and “show where it fails” rather than merely make generalized claims about how “it might be wrong.”

They are not “the same things.” One is utilizing a precise and compelling method - logical argument with clearly stated premises and conclusions, the other engages in vague generalities.

It has nothing to do with deconstructionism, and everything to do with simply disproving or dispelling a notion. Deconstructionism is the process of taking apart or reducing an idea to what is (often falsely) purported to be the constituent elements.

Of course the “point of scholarship” is broader than that, but with regard to disputable points, that is how scholarship handles errant notions - deftly and precisely proving them wrong and excising them, not painting over them with broad strokes.
 
Let me amend my statement to be clearer: the authors of the synoptic gospels do not represent themselves as eyewitnesses to any of the events they record. Of course, this is not true of the Johannine gospel.
Why would they necessarily represent themselves as “eyewitnesses?” If the accounts were written for their peers and understood to have been eyewitness accounts by the current readership, it would seem to have been a redundant statement given the readers would not have even raised the question.

Hence, the later titles: “the Gospel According to Mark” and “the Gospel According to Matthew”

Luke is a different case because of the specific audience for whom his account was written.

John is also a special case because he does self-identify and Bauckham explains why and how he does - the reasons are rather unexpected but plausible.
 
In what way? It’s more believable that the church carefully preserved 4-5 contradictory eyewitness accounts than that the evangelical authors of the gospels idealized their presentations of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection, in order to communicate the spiritual reality behind the kerygmatic particulars for their respective audiences? Is that what you mean? Because I can see how your proposal is more attractive in its simplicity.
Read Wallace’s book. The Church carefully preserved seemingly contradictory eyewitness accounts BECAUSE they were eyewitness accounts. It actually adds to their credibility as authentic accounts - at least according to the cold case detective with decades of experience dealing with eyewitnesses.
 
Gosh, this is an interesting discussion. Here’s my two cents worth. I think, considering that the evangelists weren’t giving a point-by-point, forensic account of the resurrection experience, the two accounts from Matthew and John can be reasonably harmonised. In particular, I’d like to highlight what I believe is a temporal discrepancy in Matthew’s Gospel, which can be identified by Matthew’s use of “Behold!” (ἰδού), which he seems to use to imply a change in time or perspective. For example:
But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit…”
(Matt 1:20)
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem…
(Matt 2:1)
Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream…
(Matt 2:13)

And there many more (!!!) “beholds” in Matthew of this kind. Which leads us to the section in question:
[1] Now after the sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Mag’dalene and the other Mary went to see the sepulchre.
[2] And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone, and sat upon it.
[3] His appearance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow.
[4] And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men.
[5] But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.
[6] He is not here; for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay.
[7] Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold, he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. Lo, I have told you.”
[8] So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
[9] And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Hail!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.
[10] Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me.”
[11] While they were going, behold, some of the guard went into the city and told the chief priests all that had taken place.
I think considering Matthew’s prior use of the particle “behold”, we can see that its use here can mark divisions in focus and/or time. So, there can be a division between vv.1 and 2, a division between the angel conversing with the women and v. 9, and a division between the women conversing with Jesus v. 11.

These divisions might harmonise reasonably well, then, with how John presents the appearance. Vv. 1-8 in Matthew fit quite well with vv. 1-2 in John. Now, as has been pointed out, John has Mary [the women] seemingly ignorant of what happened to Jesus, yet Matthew has the women specifically told by an angel what happened. However, I think - as is actually insinuated in Mark’s Gospel - the women don’t really believe or understand the angel in Matthew. The angel himself emphasises at the end of his dialogue: “I have told you”. When they meet Jesus in the next verse, he himself says to them: “Go and tell my brethren”, perhaps suggesting that they did not do what the angel had said?

In fact, it seems odd that the women would meet Jesus immediately after meeting the angel and that he should repeat essentially the same thing the angel says. This is another indicator, with the “behold”, that there is a time gap between the two, during which we get John 20:3-10.

Matthew 28:9-11 generally fits the remainder of John’s account (vv.11-18).

Does this answer all the questions? No. There is still a question of who is seeing angels and when. But I think it helps us to see that these passages are not contradictory.
 
Gosh, this is an interesting discussion. Here’s my two cents worth. I think, considering that the evangelists weren’t giving a point-by-point, forensic account of the resurrection experience, the two accounts from Matthew and John can be reasonably harmonised. In particular, I’d like to highlight what I believe is a temporal discrepancy in Matthew’s Gospel, which can be identified by Matthew’s use of “Behold!” (ἰδού), which he seems to use to imply a change in time or perspective. For example:

(Matt 1:20)

(Matt 2:1)

(Matt 2:13)

And there many more (!!!) “beholds” in Matthew of this kind. Which leads us to the section in question:
Matthew does use the “behold” phrase quite often, which is a frequent idiom used in the Old Testament by Jewish authors. Typically, Matthew is identified as a Jewish-oriented, Jewish-styled gospel. The phrase can be used to create a sense of immediacy or urgency is a scene, but (as it was explained to me by an ethnically Jewish, religiously Dominican New Testament professor), this idiom is best translated as a verbal marker introducing a new clause as primary subject, as when introducing a new narrative element in a dramatic scene or sequence.

One good Old Testament example of this is the scene in Genesis in which Joseph falls asleep and dreams of the stairway/ladder into heaven; the vision he sees is practically littered with the same “behold” phrase over and over again. Matthew, being oriented towards a Jewish audience, uses this same idiom, even though he writes in Greek rather than Hebrew (to be fair, some speculate that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew, but there is no evidence for this guess), following the LXX translators’ use of the Greek ιδου. Matthew is not the only gospel writer to use this particular device. For example, Luke–apparently directed at a more Gentile audience–nevertheless uses the same device in the scenes of Jesus’ Transfiguration, Resurrection, and Ascension (in Acts) when he writes, “and BEHOLD: two men standing…”. Luke is quite stylistically flexible, and occasionally he adopts a Semitic style. His use of Jewish idiom and syntax (especially in the first chapters of Luke, the birth narratives) gives his gospel an archaic “Jewish” feeling at key moments.

The BEHOLD device is very useful in scenes which introduce dramatic elements in quick succession–like Joseph’s vision of the ladder, or the experience of the women at the empty tomb, but it does not usually introduce or imply temporal break in a scene. Rather, it usually accomplishes the opposite: the stacking of events, images, or dialogue in rapid sequence. It’s a little like when a movie director switches from long, drawn-out scenes and starts cutting from shot to shot very quickly in an action movie, to create a sense of drama.

It might be possible to harmonize Matthew and John’s accounts, although Matthew doesn’t mention two angels, whereas John does; Luke, on the other hand, is closer to John, in that John and Luke both mention two figures inside the tomb–this is one reason that some scholars believe the author of John’s Gospel was at least familiar with Luke’s Gospel, though personally I think he was probably also familiar with Mark. I’d definitely agree with you that the writers of the gospels weren’t giving a “forensic account,” which would seem to unburden readers from the task of trying to forensically harmonize them, as literal eyewitness accounts, as if we are police taking statements at the scene of an accident.
 
Why would they necessarily represent themselves as “eyewitnesses?” If the accounts were written for their peers and understood to have been eyewitness accounts by the current readership, it would seem to have been a redundant statement given the readers would not have even raised the question.

Hence, the later titles: “the Gospel According to Mark” and “the Gospel According to Matthew”

Luke is a different case because of the specific audience for whom his account was written.

John is also a special case because he does self-identify and Bauckham explains why and how he does - the reasons are rather unexpected but plausible.
You may enjoy the current discussion taking place on this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=903710, which discusses Catholic Tradition and obligation regarding the traditional identification/association between Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (who is not actually named as the author of the fourth gospel) with the gospels that bear their names. Several church fathers identified the particular authors as Matthew/Mark etc., but I think today’s Magisterium is a little more flexible when it comes to pseudonymity.

It may help salve the wound to know that the scribal culture of the ancient world was not dominated by modern copyright sensibilities; the gospels may be attributed to Matthew/John because they are associated with those Apostolic figures, even if they did not directly write them. For example, some theorize that there is a small school of Johannine disciples behind the creation of the fourth gospel, and that John may be the inspiration behind the gospel, but not its actual author. Or perhaps we can think of him as the project director, outsourcing the ink-and-paper work and managing the creative development team. If this type of hypothesis is correct, early church authorities would not be deceptive or inaccurate in putting John’s name on it, but rather giving credit where credit is due.
 
You may enjoy the current discussion taking place on this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=903710, which discusses Catholic Tradition and obligation regarding the traditional identification/association between Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (who is not actually named as the author of the fourth gospel) with the gospels that bear their names. Several church fathers identified the particular authors as Matthew/Mark etc., but I think today’s Magisterium is a little more flexible when it comes to pseudonymity.

It may help salve the wound to know that the scribal culture of the ancient world was not dominated by modern copyright sensibilities; the gospels may be attributed to Matthew/John because they are associated with those Apostolic figures, even if they did not directly write them. For example, some theorize that there is a small school of Johannine disciples behind the creation of the fourth gospel, and that John may be the inspiration behind the gospel, but not its actual author. Or perhaps we can think of him as the project director, outsourcing the ink-and-paper work and managing the creative development team. If this type of hypothesis is correct, early church authorities would not be deceptive or inaccurate in putting John’s name on it, but rather giving credit where credit is due.
Bauckham develops his thesis that John the Elder was the author of John by demonstrating how a literary technique known as inclusio was used by John to subtly identify himself as the author. Bauckham also shows the technique was used by Mark to identify Peter as his source and even by Luke to acknowledge his indebtedness to Mark. Bauckham develops his thesis quite convincingly. The points are extensive and draw in a great breadth of material from early figures in the Church such as Papias as well as modern scholarship. He goes into an impressive amount of background detail to bring precision into the points he makes. He must be read because so much of what he does is groundbreaking, so I’ll leave things where they are at here and spend some time looking over the thread you noted.
 
The BEHOLD device is very useful in scenes which introduce dramatic elements in quick succession–like Joseph’s vision of the ladder, or the experience of the women at the empty tomb, but it does not usually introduce or imply temporal break in a scene. Rather, it usually accomplishes the opposite: the stacking of events, images, or dialogue in rapid sequence. It’s a little like when a movie director switches from long, drawn-out scenes and starts cutting from shot to shot very quickly in an action movie, to create a sense of drama.
Thanks for the comment and good points. I wonder, though, whether we can discern the compilation of different traditions/accounts in this sequence in Matthew’s Gospel, with “behold” used as the connecting particle, as you say, stacking them together like a director who takes different camera cuts and forms a single scene.

As for the angels, I suppose if they were a spiritual rather than corporeal manifestation, what may appear to one witness as “one” may be seen by another as “two”, unlike Jesus, who is corporeal though with a resurrected body.
 
Bauckham develops his thesis that John the Elder was the author of John by demonstrating how a literary technique known as inclusio was used by John to subtly identify himself as the author. Bauckham also shows the technique was used by Mark to identify Peter as his source and even by Luke to acknowledge his indebtedness to Mark. Bauckham develops his thesis quite convincingly. The points are extensive and draw in a great breadth of material from early figures in the Church such as Papias as well as modern scholarship. He goes into an impressive amount of background detail to bring precision into the points he makes. He must be read because so much of what he does is groundbreaking, so I’ll leave things where they are at here and spend some time looking over the thread you noted.
I’ll put Bauckham’s book on the eyewitnesses on my to-read list; the last thing I read of his was his “The Theology of the Book of Revelation,” with which I was a little disappointed–but I do agree that he is a very good author and scholar.
 
Thanks for the comment and good points. I wonder, though, whether we can discern the compilation of different traditions/accounts in this sequence in Matthew’s Gospel, with “behold” used as the connecting particle, as you say, stacking them together like a director who takes different camera cuts and forms a single scene.

As for the angels, I suppose if they were a spiritual rather than corporeal manifestation, what may appear to one witness as “one” may be seen by another as “two”, unlike Jesus, who is corporeal though with a resurrected body.
When it comes to visions, I suppose that is certainly possible. I’ll have to give it some more thought, but it’s true that God can do whatever he wants with his angels.
 
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