Contradictions or not?

[believerabcd]

And the answer - always by the solid arguments of Aquinas - is that evil is caused only by the good

In general, that who does an evil thing, we call it “evil”. Following this logic, if the “good” does an evil thing, then in that moment we should call the “good”, “evil”.
So we use two names(“good” and “evil”) having opposite meanings, to name the same thing, the “good”, and so either:

• the opposite meanings are one and the same thing, which is false
• this is not consistent with the correct rule of naming with different names, different meanings or things

 

[babs57]

In general, that who does an evil thing, we call it “evil”.

Why? What is the logic in that statement?

 

[Aloysium]

In general, that who does an evil thing, we call it “evil”. Following this logic, if the “good” does an evil thing, then in that moment we should call the “good”, “evil”.
So we use two names(“good” and “evil”) having opposite meanings, to name the same thing, the “good”, and so either:

• the opposite meanings are one and the same thing, which is false
• this is not consistent with the correct rule of naming with different names, different meanings or things

you are confused

God created the universe and saw it was good

man was created as something good; we were not meant to know good and evil, but live happily tending the garden in His presence

He warned that eating of the fruit would change all this

Eve saw that the fruit’s appearance and the knowledge it offered was pleasant
she and Adam ate it and mankind was changed - having learned about good and evil by doing evil: choosing what was pleasant to them vs doing God’s will

sin entered the world we and our environment became corrupted

things went from bad to worse and God had to resort to a baptism of the world through the flood

but the ultimate redemption of mankind came through the cross

there is evil, which God through His infinite love transforms into a good

you may wish to meditate further on scripture/catechism

the concepts of free will and God’s infinite goodness, beauty and truth can be rather difficult to comprehend

 

[believerabcd]

In general, that who does an evil thing, we call it “evil”.

Why? What is the logic in that statement?

Because it says in the word’s definition:
hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=evil
“[n] that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune”
There is the logic I refer to.

 

[Ignatius]

Though I agree completely to the teaches of being good as it is written in many verses in the Bible, there are passages in the Bible, that raise some questions, like the following :

• Is it really possible that something completely very good (Genesis.1.31 : “every thing that He had made … it was very good”), do something so bad (Genesis.3.4 - Genesis.3.6 : not believing God) ?
• Can the very good(as were Adam and Eve, before Genesis.3.1) transform by itself to bad, or the good should remain good forever ?

Can a good apple go bad?

 

[jonathan_hili]

If someone knows some answers to the questions below, it may solve a mistery.
Here is what says in the Bible, about God:

Genesis.1.25 - “And God made the beast of the earth … and God saw that it was good.”
Genesis.1.31 - “And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good.”
Genesis.17.1 - “I am God Almighty”

in contradiction with:

Genesis.3.14 - “Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou from among all cattle”
Genesis.3.15 - “And I will put enmity between thee and …”

Genesis.3.16 - “I will greatly multiply thy pain”
Genesis.6.5 - “And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
Genesis.6.6 - “And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth”
Genesis.6.7 - “it repenteth Me that I have made them”

If everything was so good in the beginning, why God saw that it was actually really bad what He made ?
After the above contradiction, how much credibility has the God from the Bible and the Bible itself ?

Hi BelieverABCD, God’s words in Gen 6:5-7 are a poetical or dramatic way of expressing how terrible the fall from grace was, giving the reader the impression that it was so bad, even God wish He hadn’t done it! However, theologically speaking, God can’t actually repent or do something wrong. The apparent contradiction is linguistic rather than actual.

 

[babs57]

Because it says in the word’s definition:
hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=evil
“[n] that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune”
There is the logic I refer to.

Sometimes the person is described as being evil, but generally speaking, it is the *quality or behavior *that is evil. It doesn’t follow logically that a person is evil if he does evil. David did evil in sending Uriah to be killed, but David wasn’t evil.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Though I agree completely to the teaches of being good as it is written in many verses in the Bible, there are passages in the Bible, that raise some questions, like the following :

• Is it really possible that something completely very good (Genesis.1.31 : “every thing that He had made … it was very good”), do something so bad (Genesis.3.4 - Genesis.3.6 : not believing God) ?
• Can the very good(as were Adam and Eve, before Genesis.3.1) transform by itself to bad, or the good should remain good forever ?

If you come at Sacred Scripture looking for something to pick apart, then I’m sure you will find something. Rather than trying to destroy it, try learning something from it. We can all pick it apart, but it is much harder to try and live by what it says

 

[R_C]

Because it says in the word’s definition:
hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=evil
“[n] that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune”
There is the logic I refer to.

This does not define an essence X, but rather it defines X in terms of an essence Y, and the definition is based on a destructive relationship (namely X is X inasmuch as it causes injury to Y).

This is more clearly seen with illness. While we can define health, we can only define illness with regards to health, that is, to what degree it affects health. But we cannot define it in itself, because a body is meant to be healthy, so are its organs, its cells. In this good and from this good can accidentally come some evil. Consider milk. Can anyone say milk is bad or evil? Surely not, given that it is naturally produced to feed newborns. Now, suppose someone drinks a large glass of milk and this results in a grave case of anaphylaxis. The interaction between that person’s immune system and the milk resulted in a dangerous allergic reaction, and in fact a good thing did an evil thing. However, neither his immune system nor the milk are bad or evil. We can say that in this context, milk appeared to be good, but it was not really good, since it lead to injury.

So, back to our biblical context, suppose the apple is the milk of the situation.

 

[believerabcd]

Let’s name:

• perfect = that for which every part of it is good
• imperfect = that for which at least one part of it is bad

Can a good apple go bad?

In our imperfect world, a good apple can go bad. It looks like, in an imperfect world the good can transform to bad and vice versa.
However, Genesis.1.31 pictures a perfect world, though not with this word (“And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good.”), and a perfect world can’t behave the same as an imperfect world.

 

[R_C]

Let’s name:

• perfect = that for which every part of it is good
• imperfect = that for which at least one part of it is bad

In our imperfect world, a good apple can go bad. It looks like, in an imperfect world the good can transform to bad and vice versa.
However, Genesis.1.31 pictures a perfect world, though not with this word (“And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good.”), and a perfect world can’t behave the same as an imperfect world.

No, Genesis does not picture a perfect world. It pictured a good world that was not good in itself, but shared in God’s perfect goodness to some imperfect degree. This is why the world and all creation was very good: because there is nothing other than good in God. However, the world was not perfect, for perfect goodness is a characteristic unique of God’s ineffable nature. A finite creation could not compare to the Creator more than a calculator can compare to the human brain.

As for imperfect, how do we define the term “bad” in the definition? If we define bad as something lacking in good to some degree, perhaps a more clear definition of imperfect is that in which some good is lacking. That does not make imperfect bad. It just makes it an imperfect good. Yet very good, because in its imperfection there is no bad or evil.

This appears to be a very subtle difference, but it has major implications in theology and in the context of the redemption of mankind.

 

[believerabcd]

It looks like, in an imperfect world the good can transform to bad and vice versa.

More exactly, an appropriate hypothesis is that: it is the good who transforms the bad to good and it is the bad who transforms the good to bad. So it still is the bad who does bad things and the good who does good things.

As for imperfect, how do we define the term “bad” in the definition?

The definition that I thought for the term “bad” is : “the opposite of good” or “the contrary of good”, as is ‘plus’ completely opposed to ‘minus’.

If we define bad as something lacking in good to some degree, perhaps a more clear definition of imperfect is that in which some good is lacking. That does not make imperfect bad.

If we define “bad” in that way then the definition of the term “imperfect” is exactly as the definition of the term “bad”, and that would make the imperfect bad.
If we suppose that it doesn’t exist such thing as “the opposite of good”, then all in this world is made of only good and every thing in this world should be only good, something which we know it is not true since we know at least one bad or evil thing solely just reading the Bible.

This is why the world and all creation was very good: because there is nothing other than good in God.

So, due to God’s perfectness, although the bad existed in God’s creation, God preferred to not say about the bad or could not say about it, and instead, preferred to call the bad “good” ?

 

[R_C]

So, due to God’s perfectness, although the bad existed in God’s creation, God preferred to not say about the bad or could not say about it, and instead, preferred to call the bad “good” ?

Bad did not exist in God’s creation. There was only good, but only an imperfect share, because the fullness (or perfection) of goodness can only be found in God.

 

[believerabcd]

Bad did not exist in God’s creation. There was only good, but only an imperfect share

So, the serpent, Adam and Eve did only good things in Genesis.3.1 - Genesis.3.6 ?

 

[babs57]

So, the serpent, Adam and Eve did only good things in Genesis.3.1 - Genesis.3.6 ?

Again, you confuse bad behavior with bad creatures.

 

[believerabcd]

Some other questions:

1. 
   *]
   Genesis.2.9
   

   And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

   In Genesis.2.9, how could the “knowledge of good and evil” exist, without existing the “evil” before the knowledge of it ?
   
   *]
   Genesis.3.15
   

   And I will put enmity between thee and …;they shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel

   Genesis.3.16
   

   … He said: 'I will greatly multiply thy pain …

   From God’s point of view(“I will put”, “He said”, “I will greatly multiply”) expressed in Genesis.3.15 and Genesis.3.16, did the serpent and Eve do only good things ?
   
   *]
   Genesis.4.4
   

   And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering

   Exodus.12.1-6
   

   And the LORD spoke unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying:
   …
   Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year; ye shall take it from the sheep, or from the goats;
   …
   and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at dusk.

   Hebrews.11.4
   

   By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

   Are part of God’s perfect goodness, the indications that God gave for the killing of an innocent animal and the respect that God had for an animal offering(sacrifice) ?
   
   *]
   Genesis.6.5
   

   And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

   Is every thing good in those whose thoughts are only evil ?
   
   *]
   Genesis.6.6
   

   And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth

   If God does not like the evil, why is God not stopping the evil to happen though God is the Almighty(i.e. all powerful) ?
   
   *]
   John.1.3
   

   All things were made through Him, and nothing that was made was made without Him.

   Romans.11.36
   

   For from him, and through him, and in him are all things. …

   Ephesians.4.6
   

   One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

   Colossians.1.15-17 (about Christ Jesus)
   

   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
   And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

   The evil, being one of the things that exist, from the above verses it results that the evil was made by God or by Christ Jesus.
   So, though the evil did not existed and every thing was very good in the beginning, should people pray to a God who made the evil ?
   
   *]
   1 Timothy.2.12
   

   For I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to be in authority over a man, but to be in silence.

   Is it good the above statement which is against women’s right of freedom ?
   If not, should that statement be kept in a book said to be holy ?

 

[Aloysium]

if you look at scripture and try to understand it from the perspective of Jesus,
you will see the beauty, the goodness and ultimately how it all makes sense

all these bits and pieces that you bring up from the context of the whole are understandable within that whole

 

[believerabcd]

After the above contradiction

Just in case anyone is wondering where is the contradiction, here it is:
that which was completely very good evolved by itself to that in which every thought was evil
or
the good changed by its freewill into evil.

 

[juliamajor]

snippets of scripture doesn’t tell us much. CONTEXT is everything. each verse belongs in context to it’s particular book and those books belong in context within the Bible itself.
anybody can quote scripture. but do you understand what is being said? Do you really want to understand what is being said? or do you just want to challenge.folks?
if you want to learn , listen. if people want to teach,be patient. .
i’ve been teaching scripture for ten years. no question is silly or shouldn’t be taken seriously. but it requires a student who listens and is open .

 

[Aloysium]

Just in case anyone is wondering where is the contradiction, here it is:
that which was completely very good evolved by itself to that in which every thought was evil
or
the good changed by its freewill into evil.

this is very interesting
it sort of demonstrates what our mind does
these aren’t quotes, these are understandings
what I read is that your understanding does not make sense to you

what I did many decades ago when I began trying to comprhend what this is all about
was to go to the brightest, most enlightened writers the world has known,
in addition to countless times reviewing Christ’s message in scripture

you’re choosing to come to the forums
no offense to me or anyone else here, but you can do better
actually, i don’t even know what you are talking about in the above quote

have faith, go with your questions in mind and read the Bible, CCC etc
you will get your answer