Controversial saints should they be emulated

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thistle said:
That type of mortification is not only not required it is frowned upon.
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It depends. I think Rose of Lima took it a bit too far. Catherine of Siena, St. Francis of Assisi, and St. Dominic all endured extreme physical mortification and I the Church certainly didn’t frown upon it.
 
whyeyeman said:
This is completely incorrect. Everyone must mortify themselves. Most of the time this should be interior, denying ones selfish desires. But this can be helped by exterior mortification.
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I agree with what you wrote.

In the quotations of saints accompanying your post, there are two points which I question:
St. Teresa of Avila: “How often have our bodies molested us? Should we not mortify them in return?”
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St. Josemaría Escrivá: “… the body is your enemy, and an enemy of God’s glory since it is an enemy of your sanctification…”
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To paraphrase my previous post, our bodies do not make us sin. God gave us bodies so that we might do good with them. We shouldn’t blame the body for our sins, but rather blame (and correct) our own will.
 
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Pretty sure the reason Origen isn’t a saint is because he believed that Hell was not eternal and I think also that souls pre existed.

Just yesterday was the feast day of a woman somewhat similar to the young girl we are talking about, she forgave her attempted rapist as well, as she was dying. Her dying words were something similar to “I forgive you, for you do not know what you do”, to paraphrase from memory. I am speaking of Blessed Anwarite Nangapeta.

There is nothing wrong with mortification. We are all called to it. God knows what we should do, but much will be expected from those with much and less from those with less. We are required to do the penance given us by the priest at Confession, but we can go beyond that and do much more penance.

There is an internal dying to ourselves we are called to. The key is to try to do what God desires, not more (do not fall into pride or do something that would be bad) or less (obviously we should try to do what God wills).
 
So true. Maria Goretti did not nothing of the kind of mortification. All she did was forgive the aggressor. Hardly do I see why she is considered controversial. Only women who have been raped can give testimony as to why forgiveness is important, even in the secular psychological context - you cannot get stuck. I object at this child saint to be interpreted through the feminist agenda. Not fair to her and to the truth.
 
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That’s alright, keep the :rose:I still believe your a good kid. God Bless
 
anna said:
That’s alright, keep the :rose:I still believe your a good kid. God Bless
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Lol, thanks. I just saw an opportunity to make an obscure af song reference, and I took it.

 
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AdamPeter said:
I’m not denying he had issues. I’m saying to say he was psychotic is to remove responsibility in some way.

Maria Goretti is remembered by the Church as a Virgin and Martyr.
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“Psychotic” isn’t necessarily indicative of a medical condition: more of a synonym for “monstrous.” It would be incorrect to say that his problem was a lack of self control. Eating too many cookies before bed is a lack of self-control: murder and pedophilia go way beyond that.

“Virgin Martyr” is a technical classification, and doesn’t necessarily describe the primary reason one is a saint. Joan of Arc is also a Virgin Martyr, but that wasn’t the driving force behind her canonization.
 
An article I read stated that precisely. The idea she is a saint because she defended her virginity. Or the idea she cared more about his soul, sexual sin than her own life. She appeared to him in a dream and urged his repentance.
Some rape survivors have used her story to move on. Others feel holding her up as an ideal on how to respond to rape is unfair.
 
Look at the Cross. Christ suffered. We are blessed to share in His Suffering.
 
The life and the suffering of saints will not make much sense if you lack faith. I do not think we have to understand each saints life. Analyzing and understanding their motives can be unimportant and take a lifetime. You cannot avoid suffering, warranted or unwarranted.
 
Just listened, I love music, listen to the words etc.understand where your at. My aunt said they sounded a bit like the pistols …Getting back to the posts’ you are intelligent, you know what your talking about, you have good (name removed by moderator)ut. Will look forward to hearing more from you. God Bless you.::🦋🦋
 
MargaretofCortona said:
I’m not sure why self mortification is considered important for spiritual enlightening. Some may see the beauty in this.
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It’s not about beauty, but about letting go of a desire for ease, softness and comfort. It is about training the mind and soul as we do the body.

And in a sense it’s still with us. People go to extremes of restrictive diet and crazy amounts of exercise in the pursuit of fitness, health and beauty.
 
Self mortification a way to challenge yourself? I understand wearing hairshirts or fasting. But destroying your face or laying on glass and needles? Jesus accepted his suffering and did not oppose it on himself
 
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We don’t have all the good works of Christ, but we do know He fasted for 40 days and nights in the desert.

In, say for instance, the boat, He was sleeping. This is quite possibly because of how tired He was from working so hard.

To each what is willed by God. If God doesn’t call you to a certain mortification, don’t do that specific mortification.
 
Why would God want someone to destroy their face? I understand selling your possessions, dressing less worldly, fasting or sacrificing your time for another?
Some of the practices of saints do not seem holy or necessary for holiness.
There are stranger stories like sucking the pus from the wounds of an I’ll person.
This is when Catholicism becomes strange.
 
Perhaps to atone for vanity?

Now, I don’t recall it being so bad as “destroying her face”, so be careful what you impute something to mean as opposed to what it does mean.
 
What do you understand by mortification?
Not harming ourselves,for sure…
God gave us our body too. And life requires that we take proper care if it…
There is already much heart wrenching situations in our lives and other persons that we can put the bow towards and sail it and help sail it . I do not think we need to device new hurting or hurtful stuff than what there already is around us…
.And make our hearts align with what hurts and empathy ,that would do,…
I do not know…penance,fast ,and whatever helps us be in synch with God and others,I get it…
But physical hurt or damage,I honestly do not get nor understand or frankly find positive…
 
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I feel like you’re slightly missing why St. Rose would work to blister her face. At a young age she obtained permission from her confessor to take a vow of virginity. Then, as she was getting older, men started taking note of her because of her beauty. As a way to discourage men from looking at her she cut her hair and rubbed her face with pepper to cause blemishes. She didn’t do it as a self-mortification for something she had done, but instead did it to prevent others from being tempted by her and potentially tempting her from her vow to the Lord.

At least, that’s what I learned as I studied her life as she is my Confimation saint. I could see why you would get upset about the crown of thorns she wore that pierced her head, the sever fasting, the little sleep, and other things. However, the face thing puzzles me since it was in response to men looking at her and she didn’t desire marriage even though her family did.
 
I am not judging St Rose of Lima really…or why she would choose that…
Just that emulating that today,well,I do not get it…nor do I find it healthy if you ask…
Any way ,thanks for the explanations.
 
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