Controversy erupts over Campus Republicans bake sale plans

[bbarrick8383]

Just pointing out, actually, yeah, I am in fact just that smart. I don’t even care, and you can get the hell over yourself, but when I act like I’m smart it’s because I am.

Ok, cupcake.

Know what sells far better than Rand books? Porn.

Plainly porn is of more value than Rand, and Rand is of more value than, e.g., Aquinas.

So, people who produce porn are smarter than Rand?

Name one error I’ve made on that front.

None…I guess I’ve just understimated you.

 

[Hastrman]

So, people who produce porn are smarter than Rand?

No, but then again I wasn’t the one implying Ayn Rand’s booksales showed something one way or another about her intellect.

Tell me, do you know what a reductio ad absurdam is? I don’t want to get you mad again using big words, since you obviously feel so threatened by anyone who’s smarter than you.

None…I guess I’ve just understimated you.

Typos aren’t spelling errors, thinktank.

 

[bbarrick8383]

I’m curious, are you actually concerned to pretend that Rand and her followers are not fallacious, irrational, and simply mistaken?

The number of copies a book sells implies nothing other than that people want it. In general, the fact people want to here a message is not an indicator that that message is intelligent, rational, or correct—but only that it serves their purposes.

Not to invoke Godwin’s Law but Mein Kampf sold over 10 million copies by the end of the war—less than a fifth as long as Rand’s works have been in print. What bearing, whatsoever, does that have on the value of Nazism as an intellectual movement, or Hitler as a thinker?

Are people who bought Atlas Shrugged slackjawed lackwit followers? But those who read Mein Kampf are broadening their minds?

I’m the type of guy who would sit down and read both out of curiosity, but I would not insult others who find some of their works interesting.

Sorry, I must go exercise with the wife and children or I’d spend more time chatting with you.

 

[Hastrman]

Are people who bought Atlas Shrugged slackjawed lackwit followers? But those who read Mein Kampf are broadening their minds?

Again, you demonstrate you are unacquainted with the concept of reductio ad absurdum.

If Ayn Rand is so smart because her book sold 7 million copies in half a century, then Hitler must be even smarter because his sold 10 million in a decade. Plainly that is not true. Thus we have demonstrated that the first assertion is also false.

The amount a book sells has no bearing on its author’s intelligence or the value of the ideas it contains.

When you get all defensive when someone points out his IQ, and then fail to follow a fairly simple argument, well, it’s ironic, is what it is. Among other things.

 

[rlg94086]

I’d say you’re probably right, in general, but there have been some scandals in affirmative action. Even if it’s not outright wrong it definitely needs major reform.

And I incline to agree as well RE: making converts, although (possibly because I have generalized anxiety disorder, which is like OCD without the compulsions) I tend to notice all the cracks in everything. It makes me irritating even (especially?) to people on my own side.

As in, I—who tend to be fairly economically conservative, tax-cuts, deregulation, etc.—have been involved in multiple flamewars, with conservatives, because I know Ayn Rand is fricking nuts.

If that’s what you believe about Rand, I know you can’t be all bad.

(Me, too!)

William F Buckley, Jr felt the pretty much the same way…at least about Atlas Shrugged: “I had to flog myself to read it.”
youtube.com/watch?v=5KmPLkiqnO8

 

[Hastrman]

Back on topic, RE: affirmative action bake sales, I don’t know what the value of this is supposed to be.

They’re just going to tick off the kind of people who support affirmative action, and the people who don’t, already don’t. Has anyone ever had their mind changed by any stunt like this?

 

[rlg94086]

Back on topic, RE: affirmative action bake sales, I don’t know what the value of this is supposed to be.

They’re just going to tick off the kind of people who support affirmative action, and the people who don’t, already don’t. Has anyone ever had their mind changed by any stunt like this?

That’s a good question. Perhaps it would stir someone’s brain up a little bit, so they recognize the elements of racial discrimination inherent in affirmative action.

 

[SamH]

Back on topic, RE: affirmative action bake sales, I don’t know what the value of this is supposed to be.

They’re just going to tick off the kind of people who support affirmative action, and the people who don’t, already don’t. Has anyone ever had their mind changed by any stunt like this?

Only the people that actually think about it.

 

[vz71]

Seriously, I agree.

But…you, to be sure, want their hearts to be turned one way, and I another.

Perhaps.
And you may even be a more eloquent speaker then I.

But my argument has the benefit of not judging people based upon the color of their skin.

 

[vz71]

Has anyone ever had their mind changed by any stunt like this?

There is anecdotal evidence from those that run these sales of people that start off indignant and leave actually pondering the injustice it is representative of.

Perhaps their mind was not completely changed, but it sounds like groundwork has been laid out for further thought.

 

[estesbob]

There is anecdotal evidence from those that run these sales of people that start off indignant and leave actually pondering the injustice it is representative of.

Perhaps their mind was not completely changed, but it sounds like groundwork has been laid out for further thought.

Whether it changes their minds or not, as we can tell from this thread,it makes them very uncomfortable and really makes them examine the contradictions of the position that they embrace.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Whether it changes their minds or not, as we can tell from this thread,it makes them very uncomfortable and really makes them examine the contradictions of the position that they embrace.

I agree. Not all, but at least some of those who oppose Affirmative Action (AA) will see that branding it as racism or sexism is wrong and will reconsider their position. You may be right about the discomfort. When I simply state that one may fairly support or oppose Affirmative Action, there’ll be a dozen posts that insist on my being in error - why the strong reaction if discomfort with the anti-AA position isn’t being held by at least a few?

I’ll stick to what I’ve been saying - support or oppose AA as one wills. I can’t imagine that a change in Administrations will reverse all that has been done in the name of Affirmative Action. I favor it and hope that it will remain a mark of our nation’s commitment to fairness to all its citizens.

 

[estesbob]

I agree. Not all, but at least some of those who oppose Affirmative Action (AA) will see that branding it as racism or sexism is wrong and will reconsider their position.

There is no need to “brand” AA as racism-there is no need to. It is racism by every definition of the word. Those who defend this racism are reduced to either trying to redefine the word or try and make the case that racism is acceptable depending on whom it favors.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

There is no need to “brand” AA as racism-there is no need to. It is racism by every definition of the word. Those who defend this racism are reduced to either trying to redefine the word or try and make the case that racism is acceptable depending on whom it favors.

You are free to believe what you posted, and others may join you in that belief. I reject your definition, and I am by no means alone in that rejection.

 

[estesbob]

You are free to believe what you posted, and others may join you in that belief. I reject your definition, and I am by no means alone in that rejection.

Of course you are not alone in supporting racism. That’s the problem

 

[vz71]

There is no need to “brand” AA as racism-there is no need to. It is racism by every definition of the word. Those who defend this racism are reduced to either trying to redefine the word or try and make the case that racism is acceptable depending on whom it favors.
Rich Olszewski;8430396:

You are free to believe what you posted, and others may join you in that belief. I reject your definition, and I am by no means alone in that rejection.

This thread has seen you redefine AA a couple of times.
In the second instance, you cut out the color and sex based discrimination.

I am sure that many will be pursuaded by this shifting of the vocabulary.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

This thread has seen you redefine AA a couple of times.
In the second instance, you cut out the color and sex based discrimination.

I have posted only the usual definition of AA:

“A policy or a program that seeks to redress past discrimination through active measures to ensure equal opportunity, as in education and employment”

I am sure that many will be pursuaded by this shifting of the vocabulary.

There are several definitions of the policy available. Not all are identical. I am not trying to persuade anyone. I said, more times than it’s worth repeating, that those who oppose AA may do so, even as those of us who support it may do that. This is not a debate.

 

[vz71]

There are several definitions of the policy available.

Do any not discriminate based upon skin color?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Do any not discriminate based upon skin color?

I don’t know. It is possible. I can only suggest that you check the various definitions in the dictionaries and the law dictionaries. They are not all the same, and I can’t point to one as the definitive meaning of the term.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I have posted only the usual definition of AA:

“A policy or a program that seeks to redress past discrimination through active measures to ensure equal opportunity, as in education and employment”
.

Can you give me an example of how this definition is carried out without discriminating against people based on gender or skin color?