Conversation with a Mormon

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Jerusha said:
I really appreciate your last comment, Parker. Perhaps you might better spend your time taking a look at the abuses occurring within your church. 👍 That includes non-members. We are human, too. And deserving of respect as such.
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Jerusha,
Thanks for your kindliness in wanting to remind me not to be abusive in how I come across on this forum. I realize I’ve “crossed the line” sometimes, and I apologize for it. I hope you won’t hold that against me. I certainly respect you, your beliefs, your sincerity, and your compassion. I think you are being blessed in your life for every good quality you have, and will in the next life also.
 
Stephen168 said:
Are you saying yes or; yes, unless another standard works conflicts with it?
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Stephen,
I don’t find that they conflict. I was saying yes, but isolated passages can be taken out of context. (I find that self-described atheists do that often, in other on-line discussions I have read.)
 
ParkerD-
But you don’t think Jerusha will make it to the highest level-exaltation-in the next life-correct?
 
sweetnay said:
ParkerD-
But you don’t think Jerusha will make it to the highest level-exaltation-in the next life-correct?
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Sweetnay,
I certainly think that she could. But some people don’t particularly want that. I have no idea in Jerusha’s case, what she wants in the next life, but I imagine that she’ll be entitled to receive the reward she wants, and more. (This is not a riddle.)

Exaltation means we will have a great deal of growing to do, a huge amount of changing to do, an incredible amount of learning to do, but it will be a happy and fulfilling process, and part of the joy of it is that we can do it as families–forever families, learning from the Savior all along the way.
 
twopekinguys said:
Well, we’ve gone from “Nazi tendencies” to “murderous Nazi”…That’s a stretch. Even for a taffy puller.🙂
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Nazi’s were murderous. That’s the point of calling someone a Nazi, or telling her that she has 'Nazi tendencies." There is nothing positive meant in such a statement, and chief among the things meant when calling someone else a Nazi is to refer back to what Nazis did…

And chief among the things that Nazis did was murder. They murdered the disabled, the different, the weak, those who disagreed politically, theologically, scientifically; the entire reason the name is such a ‘hiss and a byword’ is because of that. It is what MARKS them.

If you ask anybody what “Nazi” means, while they will come up with a list (usually of things that they personally disagree with politically, whether that list is actually a list of fascist thought or not)…and while the lists may have wildly different things on it, “murderous” will be on all of them.
 
sweetnay said:
ParkerD-
But you don’t think Jerusha will make it to the highest level-exaltation-in the next life-correct?
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Don’t think she’s interested in keeping the company she would find there. She would be, however, very welcome–if she ever decides she can stand being among a bunch of Mormons.
 
dianaiad said:
Don’t think she’s interested in keeping the company she would find there. She would be, however, very welcome–if she ever decides she can stand being among a bunch of Mormons.
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Diana,
I think we’re all going to be pleasantly surprised, self included. I would look forward to meeting
all sorts of people like her there, and feel in good company.
 
ParkerD-
So my lds friends and fam who state that exhaltation means attaining godhood, literally their own planet/world, wholeheartedly believe in D and C 132 (polygamy) and that one must be temple worthy-tithe 10prcnt-have an temple marriage-etc etc are mistaken?
 
Oh, I am sure that some Mormons will make it to Heaven. 😉 I refuse to judge.

And sometimes it takes an accurate, but very irritating statement to get some people to repent of obnoxious attitudes and behavior. 😛 Again, I responded to anger with anger, which is not my natural style.
 
sweetnay said:
ParkerD-
So my lds friends and fam who state that exhaltation means attaining godhood (Note: in perhaps a thousand years, or a hundred thousand), literally their own planet/world (under the guidance, direction, and influence of God the Father and Jesus Christ), wholeheartedly believe in D and C 132 (refers to polygamy briefly but more importantly to an eternal marriage covenant) and that one must be temple worthy-tithe 10prcnt (as Malachi taught)-have an temple marriage-etc etc are mistaken?
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(Note my additions to your statement/question)

Sweetnay,
I would say they are mistaken if they think those qualities make them exclusive. I think the parable in Matthew 20:1-16 applies here. I like the sentiment Jerusha expressed just above here. Thanks, Jerusha.
 
dianaiad said:
Nazi’s were murderous. That’s the point of calling someone a Nazi, or telling her that she has 'Nazi tendencies." There is nothing positive meant in such a statement, and chief among the things meant when calling someone else a Nazi is to refer back to what Nazis did…

And chief among the things that Nazis did was murder. They murdered the disabled, the different, the weak, those who disagreed politically, theologically, scientifically; the entire reason the name is such a ‘hiss and a byword’ is because of that. It is what MARKS them.

If you ask anybody what “Nazi” means, while they will come up with a list (usually of things that they personally disagree with politically, whether that list is actually a list of fascist thought or not)…and while the lists may have wildly different things on it, “murderous” will be on all of them.
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I think you are going to the extreme with this. What Nazi’s were known for was Hate and Racial Purity. Yes, murder was their end justification, but Pure Hate is what they exhibited and what they were known for.

Maybe that is the point she was trying to make. That you seem full of hate based on some of your posts. Resorting to calling people liars because they won’t bow down to your demands. Insulting their intelligence by stating they are using 3rd grade debate tactics, calling someone else a self described mormon hater.

Yes there have been heated exchanges, but I think you have gone way over the top on quite a few of them…similar to a 3rd grade school yard bully, and I think that is the point she was trying to make, that you have a tendency to become hateful in your posts.
 
Amount of time/who teaches you doesn’t matter-you still believe you attain godhood and your own world correct?

And you believe that God was once a man?

And it doesn’t matter how briefly DandC 132 mentions it, it still mentions polygamy!!

If exaltation is not exclusive to temple worthy mormons, than why bother learning all the secret things in the temple in the first place?

It sounds like you have more of a Universalist belief than anything?
 
sweetnay said:
Amount of time/who teaches you doesn’t matter-you still believe you attain godhood and your own world correct?

And you believe that God was once a man?

And it doesn’t matter how briefly DandC 132 mentions it, it still mentions polygamy!!

If exaltation is not exclusive to temple worthy mormons, than why bother learning all the secret things in the temple in the first place?

It sounds like you have more of a Universalist belief than anything?
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Exaltation is only for faithful LDS that receive their temple ordinances. However salvation is not limited to LDS.

We really don’t focus on getting worlds and such, this seems to be an anti-LDS obsession on our belief in exaltation.
 
sweetnay said:
Amount of time/who teaches you doesn’t matter-you still believe you attain godhood and your own world correct?

And you believe that God was once a man?

And it doesn’t matter how briefly DandC 132 mentions it, it still mentions polygamy!!

If exaltation is not exclusive to temple worthy mormons, than why bother learning all the secret things in the temple in the first place?

It sounds like you have more of a Universalist belief than anything?
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Sweetnay,
I agree 100% with what LDS Guy just wrote. I want to be a better person tomorrow than I was today, ad infinitum. I want to really love people, to really try and understand them.

No, I don’t believe “God was once a man” in the sense you are using the term. Perhaps He was once a Savior for a Universe before ours, but I don’t consider for a minute that He was “once a man” like I am. Perhaps He was “once a man” in the sense that Christ became a mortal being with power over mortality.

I don’t care about polygamy. It has no bearing in my life, nor that of my wife. To be married is to learn from each other and try and achieve oneness, and I am happy to be trying to do that. I am grateful to her and for her every day.

The temple is as much about covenant making as it is about learning. The “secrets” are not all that secret, but they are symbolic and symbolism means you have to stretch your mind to grasp the underlying concepts. The covenants are what matter to me, and its no “bother”–it’s a learning process that is very satisfying.

Joseph Smith taught that God is much more benevolent than humankind give Him credit for being. I think we are all here to learn, and the LDS don’t have a corner on that process at all (of course they don’t).

Back to Matthew 20. I believe that parable, and that it applies to this life and the hereafter. Best wishes to you.
 
LDSGuy,
Here is a question for you.
Q. Have you come to the place in your spiritual life where you know for sure that when you die that you will BE** WITH **GOD IN HEAVEN?
 
I agree 100% with what LDS Guy just wrote. *and here we have what I was getting at before but you glossed over, assuming I had salvation and exaltation mixed up. *

No, I don’t believe “God was once a man” in the sense you are using the term. In the sense I am using the term and the sense that your prophets have used it? Either you have unorthodox beliefs or again are being a bit disingenious about what Mormons truly beleive!

I don’t care about polygamy. I]I’m glad you don’t but it’s still in your D&C 132 and plenty of Mormons do AND teach it.

Joseph Smith taught that God is much more benevolent than humankind give Him credit for being. I think we are all here to learn, and the LDS don’t have a corner on that process at all (of course they don’t). JS taught a whole lot more than that!!
“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)

I appreciate your kind, measured responses however getting to what you really believe is a bit like nailing down jello!🤷
God Bless
 
*We really don’t focus on getting worlds and such, this seems to be an anti-LDS obsession on our belief in exaltation. *
LDSguy- its not anti-LDS, it’s true, and a fundamental difference between Christians and Mormons that will eventually be brought to light when discussing theological differences.
 
Naziism is a doctrine of hate.

Even today’s Nazis do not overtly preach genocide. That is the reason why the others are called neo-Nazi.

Because of the horrors of WWII, I also condemn doctrines that logically can lead to genocide. If we don’t stop them there, what will they lead to?

I will never call anyone a Nazi, without qualifiers, such as having Nazi tendencies, or proto-Nazi.

Some subtypes within Mormonism certainly have those characteristics. Because they claim to be Christian, they do not openly advocate genocide. However, there are other strategies for gaining power. And they do use them. Spiritual abuse, abuse of basic feelings, such as fear and loneliness are only a few of those strategies. Those strategies are a subtler form of geocide, destroying diversity, both cultural and religious.
 
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