Conversation with a Mormon

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LDSGuy,
do you believe that you will become a god or that you hope you will become one?
 
DLClark said:
LDSGuy,
do you believe that you will become a god or that you hope you will become one?
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Yes, we believe that we can return to God’s presence, and become deified, joint-heirs in Christ. This talk about getting a planet and such is what is typically said by anti-Mormons.
 
Did you know that this is the very same sin that Satan commited. The King of Tyre is another name for Satan. Notice what he wanted to do and be like.Ezek 28:11-16

11 Again the word of the LORD came to me saying, 12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"You had the seal of perfection,Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering:The ruby, the topaz and the diamond;The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,Was in you.On the day that you were created They were prepared. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers,And I placed you there.You were on the holy mountain of God;You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. 16 "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence,And you sinned;
NASU

Ezek 28:1-2
The word of the LORD came again to me, saying, 2 "Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre, 'Thus says the LordGOD,

"Because your heart is lifted up
And you have said, ’ I am a god,
I sit in the seat of gods
NASU

Ezek 28:6

6 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD,

'Because you have made your heart
Like the heart of God,
NASU

This is same sin of Mormonism.

God of creations says this Isa 44:6

6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:

'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
NASU

Now if the God of creation, the God of the Bible says that He is the first * and the Last * how many god’s are there then?**
 
LDSGuy said:
Yes, we believe that we can return to God’s presence, and become deified, joint-heirs in Christ. This talk about getting a planet and such is what is typically said by anti-Mormons.
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No LDSGuy it is what your leaders have taught.
Each succeeding generation of gods follow the example of the preceding ones: each generation have their wives who raise up from the fruit of their loins immortal spirits: when their families become numerous, they organize new worlds for them… …they place their families upon the same…"
LDS Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, 1853, pp. 134-135
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It is a disingenuous of you to take your church’s teachings and turn them around as “talk of anti-mormons”. Kind of lying, don’t you think?
 
Isa 43:10-11
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
11 "I, even I, am the LORD,
And there is no savior besides Me.
NASU

Isa 44:2
2 Thus says the LORD who made you
And formed you from the womb, who will help you,
NASU

Isa 44:8
Is there any God besides Me,
Or is there any other Rock?
I know of none.’"
NASU

Isa 44:6

6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:

'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
NASU

If the God of Creation, who made you, said that He is the first and the ** last. He also said that He knows of no other god. Now if He is the first and the Last God, how many gods are there?
 
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.97 - p.98:

"ALL EXALTED MEN BECOME GODS. To believe that Adam is a god should not be strange to any person who accepts the Bible. When Jesus was accused of blasphemy because he claimed to be the Son of God, he answered the Jews: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods, and that man by obeying the commandments of God and keeping the whole law will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he also will become a god.
 
God says that here is not other God besides Him that He is the first and the law and that here is no other gods. Now how many god are there if the true God of creation is the first and the last?

Joseph smith fell for the very same sin that threw Satan out of heaven, that of wanting to be a god. Mormonism has fallen for the same lie.
 
sweetnay said:
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.97 - p.98:

"ALL EXALTED MEN BECOME GODS. To believe that Adam is a god should not be strange to any person who accepts the Bible. When Jesus was accused of blasphemy because he claimed to be the Son of God, he answered the Jews: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods, and that man by obeying the commandments of God and keeping the whole law will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he also will become a god.
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Sweetnay,
So did the Apostle John in the book of Revelation, but we’ve already been there, haven’t we? I believe the words mean what they say, but you believe they mean something other than what they say. I don’t blame you for that approach, because it seems just as incomprehensible to me as it probably does to you. But I accept what Christ promised, and I accept that He and John knew what they were talking about. Peace to you, sincerely.
 
Apparently I’m a little slow, exactly what are you referring to re: the Apostle John?🤷
 
Actually you’re doing mental gymnastics to make the Bible conform to your LDS beliefs. It must be read as a whole, contextually–old Test in light of the new Test-
 
I’m getting in on this post rather late, but felt compelled to add my “two cents worth” for whatever that might be…probably two cents. At any rate, I remember quite distinctly years ago visiting with Mormon neighbors who lived across the street from us. The husband was a Bishop in the church. At one point in the evening I asked him point blank if he had to chose between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, which would he choose? Without much hesitation he responded affirmatively it would be the Book of Mormon. I was stunned that one who claimed to be Christian would so easily elect to place the Bible as sort of a second class work to the Word of God itself. All my life I held certain perceptions about the Catholic Church and the LDS church which were admittedly based on myth and misunderstanding. As an evangelical Protestant all I ever thought I needed was the Bible and the Cross. You know, sola scriptura. Then five years ago I began an in depth exploration into the Catholic Church and eventually found the Truth. Yes, there were dark days when the church was led down a crooked path, but make no mistake about it, that was the misguided work of man. The Catholic Church itself, on the other hand, has weathered many storms and has emerged today as strong as ever. I no longer have any misconceptions about the Catholic Church which I eagerly entered at Easter Vigil 2005. The questions I have about the LDS church, however, still persist. How could anyone belong to a church founded by a mortal man such as Joseph Smith? How could seemingly reasonably intelligent people “buy” a bill of goods that was not solidly based on Scripture (i.e. the Bible) alone? A couple years ago I read a book entitled “Under the Banner of Heaven” which I believed to be a fairly objective overview of the history of the LDS church. I gave no weight to any of the references to the FLDS sect, however. That said, I was astounded at what I learned about Joseph Smith’s criminal activity before discovering the infamous tablets, meeting Moroni and finding the “magic” glasses. To me, everything is fabricated, manufactured and concocted, and, most importantly, not based on Scripture (that would be the Bible only) whatsoever. Please “educate” me. What am I not getting?
 
usemelord said:
I’m getting in on this post rather late, but felt compelled to add my “two cents worth” for whatever that might be…probably two cents. At any rate, I remember quite distinctly years ago visiting with Mormon neighbors who lived across the street from us. The husband was a Bishop in the church. At one point in the evening I asked him point blank if he had to chose between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, which would he choose? Without much hesitation he responded affirmatively it would be the Book of Mormon. I was stunned that one who claimed to be Christian would so easily elect to place the Bible as sort of a second class work to the Word of God itself. All my life I held certain perceptions about the Catholic Church and the LDS church which were admittedly based on myth and misunderstanding. As an evangelical Protestant all I ever thought I needed was the Bible and the Cross. You know, sola scriptura. Then five years ago I began an in depth exploration into the Catholic Church and eventually found the Truth. Yes, there were dark days when the church was led down a crooked path, but make no mistake about it, that was the misguided work of man. The Catholic Church itself, on the other hand, has weathered many storms and has emerged today as strong as ever. I no longer have any misconceptions about the Catholic Church which I eagerly entered at Easter Vigil 2005. The questions I have about the LDS church, however, still persist. How could anyone belong to a church founded by a mortal man such as Joseph Smith? How could seemingly reasonably intelligent people “buy” a bill of goods that was not solidly based on Scripture (i.e. the Bible) alone? A couple years ago I read a book entitled “Under the Banner of Heaven” which I believed to be a fairly objective overview of the history of the LDS church. I gave no weight to any of the references to the FLDS sect, however. That said, I was astounded at what I learned about Joseph Smith’s criminal activity before discovering the infamous tablets, meeting Moroni and finding the “magic” glasses. To me, everything is fabricated, manufactured and concocted, and, most importantly, not based on Scripture (that would be the Bible only) whatsoever. Please “educate” me. What am I not getting?
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Your Mormon neighbor was not following Church belief. The Bible and Book of Mormon go hand in hand, the message affirmed in the Book of Mormon confirms that of the Bible. You don’t have to “choose” on or the other, the question in and of itself is not correct.

We believe that none of our doctrine contradicts Scripture. Read the lds.org website and other pro-LDS sites before you make your decision about what is “true” about our Church. Do not base it solely on books such as what you listed. It is hardly objective, so look at both sides first.

Start by reading this site:
jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/index.html

to get some of the other side.
 
sweetnay said:
Apparently I’m a little slow, exactly what are you referring to re: the Apostle John?🤷
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Sweetnay,
You’re not slow–you probably hadn’t seen a post I had written several days ago on one of these exchanges. I just haven’t wanted to repeat myself. Here are the passages from Revelation:
Rev. 2:
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
• • •
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
• • •
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev. 3: 12, 21
• • •
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
• • •
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
1 Jn. 5: 4-5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Rev. 21: 7
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Again, sorry to have inferred we had discussed this before. I lost track. Best wishes to you.
 
reff said:
For goodness sakes dianaiad, the poster never said everything is just peachy.
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No?

What the poster did say is that the Catholic church learned from its mistakes. "learning from’ means one of two things: either one learns to avoid doing something, or else learns to do whatever it is better. I don’t think that the latter interpretation was intended, do you?

Either way, however, ‘learning from’ mistakes is simply a way of saying 'we don’t screw up any more." There are several metaphors that can be used to say the same thing, and ‘just peachy’ is definitely one of those.
 
sweetnay said:
Please don’t put words in my mouth, I never said or inferred nazi or mormons causing more misery etc.

Your straw man argument doesn’t work here.

You’re lumping us all together, I suppose another debate tactic?

So we’ve established there will always be good/bad people of all religions.

What next? We MUST look at the doctrine.

Stop assuming you have the truth, it’s not hard to find after that.
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I didn’t say that you did. That would be Jerusha.
 
Jerusha said:
And, I never said that the main content Mein Kampf is about Native Americans, the BOM, and Mormonism. It is obvious that he took many of his beliefs from the Protocols. But the other is in there-- briefly, but it is in there.

My apologies for responding to anger with anger. I rarely do that. :o Has the ignore function been disabled?
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Jerusha, I wasn’t angry.

Until you called me a Nazi. Did you notice my response regarding “Mein Kampf,” where I wrote that there is NO mention of “Mormon” or “Mormonism” anywhere in it? Not even ‘briefly’?

Here’s the thing: it is your claim. Now you get to show us, by quote and by page number, where that book can be linked in any way to Mormonism or LDS beliefs.

…and you do NOT get to say "well, you used to believe this but now you don’t.’ as an excuse for not finding anything, either.
 
DLClark said:
LDSGuy,
Here is a question for you.
Q. Have you come to the place in your spiritual life where you know for sure that when you die that you will BE** WITH **GOD IN HEAVEN?
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If I follow my faith in Jesus Christ, through the Restored Gospel, until I pass on, then yes.
 
RebeccaJ said:
No LDSGuy it is what your leaders have taught.

It is a disingenuous of you to take your church’s teachings and turn them around as “talk of anti-mormons”. Kind of lying, don’t you think?
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Rebecca, in all my years, I have never seen any thing written by a ‘church leader’ that claims that we will become gods of our own planets.

Ever.

You are, however, quite welcome to show me something along those lines. In context. By a real ‘church leader’ . By ‘church leader,’ I mean a general authority…apostle or member of the First Presidency, and by ‘context’ I mean the whole paragraph and anything else that pertains to that quote.

Oh, and if you find it in the Journal of Discourses, context is even more important, as is something else; confirmation of that teaching by another general authority at another place and time, teaching the same thing.

I do NOT mean something written seventy five years ago as a filler piece in a newspaper in Little Podunk, Utah, by the local Sunday School President…or by your Seminary teacher.

You claim ‘church leaders,’ I want church LEADERS.

And the quotes.
 
🙂 First time I have posted but I find this interesting
I see President Spencer Kimball in the Official Declaration -2 in my Doctrine and Covenants book extended the Priesthood to all worthy members “without regard for race or color” I remember that on the news and thought it was convenient but a day late and a dollar short. I do not believe in theological racism. I believe this makes Spencer Kimball and authority in the LDS church. Spencer Kimball in an address to Institute of Religion students, cited in Doctrines of Gospel Student Manual, 29 stated, “Each one of you has it within the realm of his possibility to develop a kingdom over which you will preside as its king and God,” He continued, “You will need to develop yourself and grow in ability and power and worthiness, to govern such a world with all of its people.”
I think it takes quite an ego to believe that you personally can become a God. I also believe it is against all logic and my heart. God is the first cause, all knowing, infinite, omnipresent Everything started with God. Before creation there was only God. Everything after the first cause, God, is a mere creature of God and not God. There can only be one first cause. Anything after the first cause may be a superior being than myself but not God. I will not worship a superior being. I see people who are superior to me every day. There are Angels who are obviously superior. But they are not God. My heart will only allow me to worship the one true God, the first cause who always exists. Yahweh
If the LDS church does not teach that they can become Gods I should like to know and only from the horses mouth. LDS memebers only. I have always tried to ask just Mormons about their religion and like Catholics I often get conflicting responses. That is more human error than church error. That is why I think it was good for the prior writer to ask for sources. I ask for civility in responses and have been suprised by some caustic comments in this thread. I have always had pleasant conversations with Mormon missionaries and prefer to ask questions and answer questions when they are asked of me. I am happy just to have a conversation with someone excited about God outside of Catholicism. I find my inner spiritual peace in my prayer life, Mass and the eucharist.
God bless you all for caring about God. 🙂
 
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