Conversation with a Mormon

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kevangreen said:
unfortunately for you mormons the Christians wrote history the Christians who followed jesus
are catholic only due to the protestant reformation in 1500’s and 1600’s without them mormon church would certainly not be around
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Quite possibly not.

Which might be one reason God waited that long: the first folks who decided that the Catholics got it wrong had a few extra problems to deal with; just ask the Albigensians. I mean, the saying 'Kill 'em all; God will know His own" didn’t come from a love fest.

Mormons had enough problems without adding a monolithic theocracy coming after 'em, TOO.
 
kevangreen said:
and mormons totally interpret it different almost completely destroying the original message of jesus
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Kevin, when you reply, try doing so by selecting the “quote” button at the bottom of the screen. That will automatically quote the person you are responding to, and we can follow the conversation a little better.
 
RebeccaJ said:
So you’re going with Protestant propaganda. Nifty.
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What “protestant propaganda?”

I mean, if you are going to accuse your own people of being Protestant propagandists, things are going to get very confusing very fast.
 
kevangreen said:
you see there is a belief that when you change the bible from latin to english you loose the burning feeling about god that mormons often describe. Possible a reason catholic dont go to church as much after Vatican 2
as for those two they are just the same as traitors because the church is not what you FEEL is rite it is what jesus left us if that were the case mormons would be rite cause mormons feel what they do is rite kinds like how the germans believed there were rite in the holocaust
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Great googly moogly.
 
oh, Gallileo as if that wasn’t predictable

A Pope somewhere apologized about that. Are you keeping up with Catholic teaching. You are aware that we believe the Holy Spirit guides us to truth?

Look up who brought the scientific method to the Western world…oh, a Catholic, encouraged by a Pope.

Here’s how Mormons reconcile science to faith:

All Native Americans are Lamanites. Period. oh. look DNA. That darn DNA, and archaeology, and anthropology…all science says nope, Native Americans migrated from Asia, at least 12000 years ago, long before the fictional Lamanites existed.

What to do? Reconcile faith to science by changing what your founding “prophet” and your church taught for 150 years. There, all reconciled. Everyone can feel good and know the church is true and that joseph smith is a prophet of god. phew!

Apostasy? Had to happen otherwise, your church is unnecessary. altogether. Can’t let that pesky Christian history get in the way. So, make up history to suite your belief.

How about your literal belief of 6000 years and y2k is tic-toc, the 7th day, time to rest. Dang science, gets in the way of that too.

RECONCILE, is to notice that God created everything, including DNA and the solar system, the earth revolving around the sun, the smallest of small like a quark. To understand that science only brings to light what God made. Galileo helped to teach us this. He helped us to understand.

Mormons are still making the mistake that the sun revolves around the earth. A fitting metaphor for a view that history and science revolve around belief.History, archaeology, anthropology…all made to revolve around what is believed because it just has to be “true”.

Galileo shines the light, which changed NOTHING of what we believe, our faith, who God is, why we are here, and if Holy Scripture is truth.

Mormons have a problem. Science shines the light and your “scriptures” are debunked.
 
dianaiad said:
What “protestant propaganda?”
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apostasy + see ParkerD post
I mean, if you are going to accuse your own people of being Protestant propagandists, things are going to get very confusing very fast.
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“my people” never taught apostasy. We teach that God keeps His Word. He made covenants in the OT, always kept those promises. Jesus made a promise to us, and has kept that promise too.

We’re consistent in our belief that God is Good.
 
our “people” if you will have been there since the beginning,( end of jesus life) and to be frank Christians existed before the crucifixion, since the mormons use the KJV I think catholic just consider them a protestant denomination they use a bible that was inspired by a king who wanted 6 wives kinda sounds similar to the people who used it later for 5 LOL
 
sweetnay said:
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.97 - p.98:

"ALL EXALTED MEN BECOME GODS. To believe that Adam is a god should not be strange to any person who accepts the Bible. When Jesus was accused of blasphemy because he claimed to be the Son of God, he answered the Jews: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods, and that man by obeying the commandments of God and keeping the whole law will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he also will become a god.
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This is blasphemy. Isa 43:10-11
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
11 "I, even I, am the LORD,
And there is no savior besides Me.
NASU
 
DL Clark,
Good morning. I love the book of Isaiah, also. In chapter 43 are also verses 3 and 5-7:

“For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour;”

“Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east , and gather thee from the west; I will say…bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory…”

Truly, before the Savior, Jesus Christ, the pre-mortal Jehovah, there was “no God formed”. He was the First-Born in pre-mortal life. He was God the Son. Before Him there was no God formed. This is absolutely true.

I hope you keep reading and enjoying the book of Isaiah. I (we) love it, too. Have a good day.
 
jjones said:
Here is a question:

As a mormon, do you know what a cult is?
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the definition of a cult is…
  1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. (temple ceremonies that only the “good mormons” can attend)
  2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. ( The idea that Men can become Gods)
  3. the object of such devotion.
  4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
and my own add on…
  1. a religious organization believing in Henotheism… meaning, the worship on one god but believing that there are more then “One” God.
and I have question… if the BOM was correct and there were no mistakes contained in the BOM then why is the birth place of Jesus incorrect?
 
Who stated the BOM was correct?

Who states there are no mistakes in the BOM?

Does his name begin with a capital S?
 
ParkerD said:
DL Clark,
Good morning. I love the book of Isaiah, also. In chapter 43 are also verses 3 and 5-7:

“For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour;”

“Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east , and gather thee from the west; I will say…bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory…”

Truly, before the Savior, Jesus Christ, the pre-mortal Jehovah, there was “no God formed”. He was the First-Born in pre-mortal life. He was God the Son. Before Him there was no God formed. This is absolutely true.

I hope you keep reading and enjoying the book of Isaiah. I (we) love it, too. Have a good day.
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The verses you are quoting are out of context. Those verses in Is 43:5-7 refer to Israel and not to to Christ. Christ is eternal and the very same God as God as the Father is. You are adding to the text something that it does not say. The Bible does not say that God was ever formed or that christ was a man who became a god. Christ always was the very same God as God the Father is Never add to the Bible.
Now please answer my question. If God the creator of all things says that He is the first and the last God, then how many god’s are there?
 
jacobprixon said:
the definition of a cult is…
  1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. (temple ceremonies that only the “good mormons” can attend) ?
  2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. ( The idea that Men can become Gods)
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Subsequently if I could ask you two questions?
  1. Have you ever been to a Tridentine Mass?
  2. Have you ever read the Catechism (specifically- # 460)?
Also- with the lack of Old Testament focus in Catholicism- I think neither you nor I have the right to truly discuss the BOM. But that’s just my opinion. Help me understand your point of view if I’m incorrect.
 
Jerusha said:
Major debate on where to catalog it in libraries. As fiction under Smith, or Rigdon, or Spalding. The best parts, other than Isaiah, were probably written by Spalding.

Or it could be put here. librarything.com/subject.php?subject=Mythology%2C+Norse I am not sure what number that is. :juggle:
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In the NYS Public Libraries- the BOM is cataloged under non-fiction “289.3 SMI.” If it were fiction, the Dewey catalog would be three digits of the author’s last name “F Smi.”
 
h2001st said:
Subsequently if I could ask you two questions?
  1. Have you ever been to a Tridentine Mass?
  2. Have you ever read the Catechism (specifically- # 460)?
Also- with the lack of Old Testament focus in Catholicism- I think neither you nor I have the right to truly discuss the BOM. But that’s just my opinion. Help me understand your point of view if I’m incorrect.
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  1. No i have not been to a Tridentine Mass, but what it is your point?
  2. I was Baptized last year into Catholicism and for more then one year we studied the Bible and the Catechism, yes i have read about 90 % of it.
    • about #460 since my writing skills are only at par here is a great explanation of #460. great question a lot of people miss interpret this passage.
where is an explanation:
Code: 
   "When God created Adam and Eve, He gave them supernatural grace that allowed them to participate in His divine nature. Christ became man in order to restore this grace, which was forfeited when Adam and Eve sinned. We are united to the Son of God in Baptism, whereby we share in his Passion, Death, and Resurrection. We are thus "sons in the Son" and, by grace, "partakers of the divine nature."
also, "While St. Athanasius’s quote might be easily misunderstood, the previous line in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (Catechism), from St. Irenaeus, provides the appropriate context: “The Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God” (no. 460). To be the Son of God and to be a son of God are therefore two very different things: Christ is Son by nature (the “only Son” in John 3:16), while we are sons by grace (“sons in the Son” according to Gaudium et Spes, 22). Further, since man is a creature and there is only one God, man can never be God in the proper sense. Within the context of this paragraph, we see that St. Athanasius’s statement means something other than a man becoming the one God.

When God created Adam and Eve, He desired them to participate in His divine nature—to be able to love Him in an intimate way that exceeded the normal ability of human nature. So in addition to their human nature, God bestowed on Adam and Eve the supernatural gift of grace of original holiness (Catechism, no. 375). He thereby invited Adam and Eve to love Him as He loves Himself—that is, in a divine way. However, when they sinned, Adam and Eve forfeited this ability to love God supernaturally.

Christ became flesh in order to restore our union with God. In Baptism, we are united to Christ (cf. Gal. 3:27)—sharing in His Passion, Death, and Resurrection (cf. Rom. 6:3-4)—and so become “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet. 1:4). Because there is only one divine nature and this nature is God, we are said to “become” God.

Sacred Scripture offers further insight into understanding our unity with God as “sons in the Son.” In the Gospel of John, Jesus prays to the Father that "those who believe in me . . . may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me (Jn. 17:20-21). It is precisely in this unity that Christ calls us “brethren” (Jn. 20:17, cf. Catechism, no. 654), for we have indeed been made sons of the Father (cf. 1 Jn. 3:1-2).

here is what Father Poness said about this subject,

"If we did not share in his divinity, then there would be only actual grace. But from Baptism onwards we receive Supernatural Graces—graces above our human nature.

If we did not share in his divinity, then we would be capable of only human faith, hope and charity as a result of our own strength of character. But we receive Supernatural Virtues—Faith, Hope and Charity by the power of God.

If we did not share in his divinity, then we would receive only his humanity in Holy Communion. But we receive the whole Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=257

Maybe you dont feel that its your place to discuss the BOM, but I feel that i have a place to discuss the BOM because before i was baptized into the Catholic faith I was Mormon for 23 years, went to BYU and during which I have probably read the BOM 10-12 times, not including the Doctrine and Covenants. I have unfortunately also been involved with temple ceremonies during my stint as mormon. I hope this helps… God bless:thumbsup:
 
h2001st said:
In the NYS Public Libraries- the BOM is cataloged under non-fiction “289.3 SMI.” If it were fiction, the Dewey catalog would be three digits of the author’s last name “F Smi.”
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don’t worry, he was just implying various typical arguments against the Book of Mormon in his statement.
 
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