Conversation with an LDS missionary

[TheExorcist]

TheExorcist,
Stories like this are so rare because **it is not tolerated. **
The missionaries are guests of the local ward, even if they report to a mission president.

All one needs do is shine some light on their false statements. I expect they honestly believe what they are saying, which is why missionaries are expected to talk about LDS theology and not other faiths where they have not been trained.

I’m not going to debate you about what’s “tolerated” and what’s not but I believe it’s more common than anybody in the LDS church would care to admit. How do I know? Because these are the things that I believed about the Catholic church when I served my mission.

 

[empther]

No modern Catholic priest will promote the idea of limbo.

There is something called “baptism of desire”. This means that somebody who has never heard of God, or Jesus, or anything about true religion can be saved and go to Heaven if he follow his conscience.
God abandons nobody. He puts the Holy Spirit’s influence in every human being. If somebody tries to do what is right as he understands it, that’s enough for God.

Jesus said every child has its own angel standing before God. In other words,
God is gently leading them to Heaven despite their lack of understanding.

---

About the Holy Trinity:
Aquinas said the Three Persons are distinct from each other only by relationship, not substance. Their is only one divine substance and one God.
But the Mormons believe the Father has a body, and the Son has another body. This alone makes them distinct, since two bodies cannot be one.
Also, the Son was created by the Father. So there’s at least two gods for you. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit does no have a body, so he must be another being.
Finally, the Father was a good Mormon man on another planet, so he was given his own world, Earth, to rule over. Good earthling Mormons will also become gods each with their own planet.
How does this bizarre system work? That is not explained.

 

[KathleenGee]

In the Catholic Church, there are Bible studies and then there is Orthodoxy…understanding Scripture in context of Oral Tradition taught by Christ through His apostles.

The intellectual ‘house’ within the Church began to develop particularly through St. Thomas Aquinas in the erudite tradition…From then it seemed like the Church was trying to defend every mystery…when the Orthodox aren’t so much and can live with mystery much better than the Latins. Their house tradition is reaching the Lord through the intellect, through the ascent to God.

Contrast this with the Franciscans, who come to Christ through the descent…They relate more to the humanity of Christ, and come down to Him to His feet to serve Him in others.

And there were Dominican students who challenged St. Thomas…and won…on the immaculate conception of Mary. Thomas disagreed, thinking such a position was taking away from Christ…The truth of Mary can only glorify Christ.

In Catholic communion of the Eucharist…united with the Holy Father, the college of Bishops and the laity, we having a living and conscious relationship to Christ and to each other in the mystery of faith, that bears fruit to the truth of Jesus Christ, and uniformity of praxis.

When it comes to limbo…such an idea was literally ‘in limbo’ with day to day practicing Catholics…only causing more questions and confusion…not the sign of faith. It was in one of these areas…that we must turn to the God we know…the God of Compassion, of Love.

I thought about it, and prayed about it, and as a young person, ended up putting the babies in God’s mercy…

So whether it is unbaptized babies…or the unborn who are aborted…to every day normal people who serve and live honestly, but do not belong to any church or religion, we place these souls in the mercy of God.

The entire Bible leads to Jesus Christ and ends with Him. What was His message?
We are free to study the Bible…these are called Biblical studies…there is such a thing as feminist Biblical studies allowed by the Catholic Church for personal reflection and devotion.

The idea of limbo was never binding. Alot of Catholics never paid too much heed to it for long…

It is very hard for non-Catholics to figure out what has been binding and what has not been…the Mormons are using ‘canon’ to prove that which is a construct of their beliefs vs particular and minor movements of their original leaders.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Thank you for illustrating that it’s not just isolated mormon missionaries that spread falsehoods.

Gordon B Hinckley never “stated” that we worship a “different Jesus.”

That’s a grotesque falsehood.

LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley, June 4, 1998:
“The traditional Christ of who they speak in not the Christ of whom I speak. For the
Christ of whom I speak had been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.” (Church News, June, 20 1998, p. 7.)

Mormon Apostle, Orson Pratt, in his book titled, The Seer, at page 158:
"…The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife;

hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father. Inasmuch as God was the first HUSBAND TO HER (Mary), it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity…"

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in his book titled, The Seer, page 172:
“…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist.the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approved the plurality of Wives under Christian dispensation… The son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings’ daughters and many of the honorable Wives were to be married. We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time…”

The Living Christ, Bernard P. Brockbank, April 1977 Address:
“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Link: lds.org/general-conference/1977/04/the-living-christ?lang=eng&query=147th+Conference,+General+Authority+Bernard+P.+Brockbank+%28collection%3a%22general-conference%22%29

 

[paulp1002]

*It is clear that the traditional teaching on this topic has concentrated on the theory of limbo, understood as a state which includes the souls of infants who die subject to original sin and without baptism, and who, therefore, neither merit the beatific vision, nor yet are subjected to any punishment, because they are not guilty of any personal sin. This theory, elaborated by theologians beginning in the Middle Ages, never entered into the dogmatic definitions of the Magisterium, even if that same Magisterium did at times mention the theory in its ordinary teaching up until the Second Vatican Council. It remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis. However, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992), the theory of limbo is not mentioned. Rather, the Catechism teaches that infants who die without baptism are entrusted by the Church to the mercy of God, as is shown in the specific funeral rite for such children. The principle that God desires the salvation of all people gives rise to the hope that there is a path to salvation for infants who die without baptism (cf. CCC, 1261), and therefore also to the theological desire to find a coherent and logical connection between the diverse affirmations of the Catholic faith: the universal salvific will of God; the unicity of the mediation of Christ; the necessity of baptism for salvation; the universal action of grace in relation to the sacraments; the link between original sin and the deprivation of the beatific vision; the creation of man “in Christ”. *

Below is the link to the entire article from the Vatican’s website. It explains the teaching of un-baptised infantsand the theory of Limbo.

THE HOPE OF SALVATION FOR INFANTS WHO DIE WITHOUT BEING BAPTISED

 

[Anna_Scott]

LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley, June 4, 1998:
“The traditional Christ of who they speak in not the Christ of whom I speak. For the
Christ of whom I speak had been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.” (Church News, June, 20 1998, p. 7.)

Just to be fair:

fairmormon.org defends Hinckley’s statement, claiming Latter-day Saints believe in the Biblical Christ—the Christ that is described in the New Testament.

Link: fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ/Gordon_B.Hinckley_states_that_Latter-day_Saints_don%27t_believe_in_the%22traditional%22_Christ

This doesn’t really help since the LDS believe God is an exalted man and the departure from Christian orthodoxy continues-----If Mormons believe God is an exalted man, how can they believe in the same Jesus we do?

Peace,
Anna

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Texan Knight

Please clarify what issues Tim Staples referred to that are not true.

thank you, Pepband Mom