"Conversing with" and/or visiting the grave of someone who has passed away

[Sundiver]

God bless you. Sorry for your loss.

 

[JanR]

I agree with almost everything you’ve said, except for one.

When I was taught about Purgatory, I was taught that after the soul completes the purification there, it automatically goes straight to Heaven. There was never any mention of the possibility of a soul purified and perfected in Purgatory could still go straight to hell! What’s the point of being purified, if that’s the outcome? I notice at the beginning of your post, you say, “the soul continues to live on, separates from the body and goes to be judged by God and is sent either to Heaven, or to Purgatory for a time of purification after which it will definitely go to Heaven, or straight to hell.”

So, are we saying that souls in Purgatory can still wind up in hell, even after being purified? That totally contradicts what I was consistently taught about it, and it somehow doesn’t seem fair. If God judged one deserving of Hell, wouldn’t he send them there immediately upon judging them instead of sending them to Purgatory, first?

I’ve always understood that Purgatory was for those who still have venial sins they haven’t atoned for, and still have some minor flaws that need correcting – in other words, the “little stuff” that’s still important enough to keep them from going straight to Heaven. Isn’t that what purification is all about – a purging, or cleansing of what’s left?

And, isn’t the purpose of our praying for the souls in Purgatory to help them complete this purification sooner, or make the process easier on them, so they can enter Heaven sooner?

I have never heard of a soul still going to Hell after spending time in Purgatory. Did I misunderstand you?

 

[JanR]

I felt more settled after visiting the grave of my biological grandfather, who I never got to meet in life. I could sense he knew I was there. I very quietly spoke to him, knowing he’s in spirit, and wished him an eternity of happiness. I just wanted, and still want, good things for him. It’s up to God, but I pray it’s so.

 

[JimG]

We only worship God, but we do pray to saints when we ask for their intercession. Look at the words to the Hail Mary, they are certainly addressed to Mary, not God.

Yes, prayer is simply a means of communication, whether to God, to the saints or to the deceased in purgatory or in heaven. They rely on the power of God to hear our prayers. But praying to them is not worship. We only worship God, by offering sacrifice to him, specifically offering the sacrifice of his son in the Mass, to which we can add our own personal sacrifices. I have no problem with the words praying “to” the saints; it just means talking to them.

 

[mythbuster1]

Visiting graves is far from pointless. Pious visitation of graves carries an indulgence for the faithful departed (a plenary indulgence during the Octave of All Hallows, a partial indulgence the rest of the year). Furthermore, the very word “cemetery” attests to our belief in the Resurrection of the Dead, as it is derived from the Greek “kemeterion,” meaning “bedroom” or “sleeping place.” Therefore, let those who visit cemeteries be comforted that whether we live to see the Second Coming or die waiting for His Return, we shall indeed go out to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[FiveLinden]

I do not think there is a life after death but have no problem with talking to dead people myself or other people doing it. As far as I am concerned these are imagined conversations (should we hear back, or imagine the response of the dead) and of no more significance than a similar imagined conversation with a person who is alive. Conversations with imaginary people are also possible - I only do this when thinking about what I might say in a speech, or if ‘someone’ was to say a particular thing to me. One of the good things about these imagined conversations is that I am almost at my most witty and persuasive! I think this is a universal human practice and it is no surprise than religious people do it too.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

When I was taught about Purgatory, I was taught that after the soul completes the purification there, it automatically goes straight to Heaven. There was never any mention of the possibility of a soul purified and perfected in Purgatory could still go straight to hell! What’s the point of being purified, if that’s the outcome? I notice at the beginning of your post, you say, “the soul continues to live on, separates from the body and goes to be judged by God and is sent either to Heaven, or to Purgatory for a time of purification after which it will definitely go to Heaven, or straight to hell.”

So, are we saying that souls in Purgatory can still wind up in hell, even after being purified? That totally contradicts what I was consistently taught about it, and it somehow doesn’t seem fair. If God judged one deserving of Hell, wouldn’t he send them there immediately upon judging them instead of sending them to Purgatory, first?

Your understanding is correct that souls in Purgatory go to Heaven when Purgatory is done. Souls in Purgatory are saved and assured of Heaven eventually once they finish Purgatory.

I see that (name removed by moderator) also gave you the correct teaching above.

It is not Church teaching that a soul in Purgatory could go to Hell, and I was mystified where you got that from anything I posted. I re-read my original post you responded to, and I think the issue is with my use of phrasing and a comma placement. The sentence could be read to say what I intended, which was that a soul upon death goes either to Heaven, or to Hell, or to Purgatory and eventually on to Heaven. Or alternatively it could be read to suggest that a soul in Purgatory could go to Hell, which is NOT what I meant. This confusion wasn’t intentional, I assure you. Unfortunately since the post is several days old I can’t edit it to make a better phrasing.

I mentioned that a deceased person might be in Hell because they might have gone there immediately upon death. Not because they might somehow go from Purgatory to Hell. That is not possible.

Souls are judged immediately upon death. At that point they go to Hell, Purgatory or Heaven. They don’t get judged again when Purgatory ends.

 

[IanM]

As an aside to this thread, could I just mention that I recently heard a sermon from a priest who asked that prayers for priests in Purgatory be also remembered. He said that obviously people remembered their loved ones e.g. parents, siblings etc. but without children or grandchildren for instance, few remember to pray for their souls who also long for entry into Heaven.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I do not think there is a life after death but have no problem with talking to dead people myself or other people doing it. As far as I am concerned these are imagined conversations (should we hear back, or imagine the response of the dead) and of no more significance than a similar imagined conversation with a person who is alive. Conversations with imaginary people are also possible - I only do this when thinking about what I might say in a speech, or if ‘someone’ was to say a particular thing to me. One of the good things about these imagined conversations is that I am almost at my most witty and persuasive! I think this is a universal human practice and it is no surprise than religious people do it too.

Thanks for sharing your experience, but the OP asked about the Catholic teaching on speaking to the deceased. It needs to be noted that you are not Catholic (in fact you identify as “unbelieving”) and are not giving the Catholic perspective, so people who read the thread don’t get confused.

Catholics believe in life after death. It is a central tenet of our faith, and not a question of imaginary conversations in one’s head. This is an important point and therefore not at all comparable to whatever you think you’re doing in your imagination. Your experience is not our experience.

 

[JanR]

Well, I’m certainly glad to have gotten that straightened out. Yes, it had to do with your phrasing and the comma. I’m certainly grateful to know that one can go from Purgatory to Paradise in all cases, no exceptions.

Thank you for clarifying this.

 

[Frankie65]

also, while driving around working, will stop in cemeteries and pray for the dead, so they are not placed in the ground and forgotten.

That is very kind and generous

My mum is buried with my baby brother in a large rectangle under beech trees in a consecrated cemetery. I try to remember to include all those buried in that rectangle in my last ‘eternal rest’ prayer as most are old graves and in disrepair and I don’t think anyone visits them. I have adopted them!

 

[Frankie65]

Thank you Ian re priests that is a very good reminder

 

[Tota_Tua1]

When making my Morning Offering, I make it a practice to include among my intentions “all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, especially those who have no-one else to pray for them…”
If I happen to pass a funeral cortege, I will pray for the Lord to have mercy on that departed soul.
Before I retired, I nursed many older people who had no family or friends to pray for them, so I include them too. I don’t always mention every one by name, but my beloved Saviour knows who I include as from time to time, I do rehearse the whole list.
I also talk to my departed family and can’t wait to be reunited with them, as God wills.

 

[DeSales111]

Thank you and God bless you too.

 

[DeSales111]

I like that you have adopted those around your mum and baby brother, that’s a great way to remember them and extend the family!!! How great of a tradition would it be if every Catholic randomly adopted a person out of a cemetery to pray for often.

 

[Frankie65]

Thank you! Also I know this is slightly off topic but when anyone blesses themselves with Holy Water they can say, "wash away my sins o Lord and relieve the poor souls in purgatory "

 

[JanetF]

Personally, I don’t visit graves very often at all, my parents are buried about 60 miles away from where I live so while it’s not across the country, it’s not right next door either. I talk to my deceased parents often though.

I’m careful when walking in a cemetery

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I think we’ve had this discussion before, but there’s some difference of opinion between theologians as to whether or not souls in Purgatory can pray for us while they are still in Purgatory. All are in agreement that they can and do pray for us when they reach Heaven.

 

[FiveLinden]

Thanks for sharing your experience, but the OP asked about the Catholic teaching on speaking to the deceased. It needs to be noted that you are not Catholic (in fact you identify as “unbelieving”) and are not giving the Catholic perspective, so people who read the thread don’t get confused.

Catholics believe in life after death. It is a central tenet of our faith, and not a question of imaginary conversations in one’s head. This is an important point and therefore not at all comparable to whatever you think you’re doing in your imagination. Your experience is not our experience.

I specifically pointed out that ‘I do not think there is a life after death’ so the chances of people reading the thread confusing me with a Catholic are pretty low I think Tis.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I specifically pointed out that ‘I do not think there is a life after death’ so the chances of people reading the thread confusing me with a Catholic are pretty low I think Tis.

Please understand, for this and other threads, that there are people who read this forum (many of whom rarely or never post) who know very little or nothing about Catholicism.
Also, not everybody goes and looks at a member’s profile to see if they are a Catholic or an unbeliever, etc.
When the first post of a thread is explicitly asking for Catholic teaching, it’s pretty easy for those reading to assume that everyone answering is Catholic.

Non-Catholics giving their opinions in threads where an OP specifically asks “What is the Catholic teaching on X” are technically off-topic as they aren’t answering the OP’s question. However, I don’t like to flag unless the non-Catholic is being disruptive, obnoxious, proselytizing for his non-Catholic faith, being disrespectful to the Catholic Church, etc. So I simply note that the person is a non-Catholic and then all confusion is removed.