T
- Status
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Sabacthani…
I sensed you are marginalized as a Mormon within your community.
You are asking good questions and pondering them and I pray for you and many to come to the truth of Christ.
I am not able to share my faith as before.
You made a comment about feeling sorry for priests who cannot marry, and I am sure you have read it is a discipline of the Church going way back to when it was formally brought forward by the Spanish priests in the 300’s.
Prior to that, we have great witness of saints, just as Porknpie shared the beautiful post of St. Cecilia who was a virgin when she was martyred. There is the great witness of Perpetua and Felicity and Saturnas, a male, who were all 3 martyred in Carthage in the 200’s, all remaining celibate because their conversion to Christ was so complete, so thorough, they wanted nothing more of this life.
You can find the same sentiment in Catholic priests.
And many who feel sorry for them do not know them as human beings or are knowledgeable of the lives they lead. They are very social, their daily calendar full of people, of get togethers, and so on, and the vast majority are most fulfilled and happy in their vocation.
Their greatest sentiment is not about not having a family.
The greatest sentiment of a priest is that Christ has called them to this most wonderful life and they know they are not worthy and for that know it is truly a calling.
I sensed you are marginalized as a Mormon within your community.
You are asking good questions and pondering them and I pray for you and many to come to the truth of Christ.
I am not able to share my faith as before.
You made a comment about feeling sorry for priests who cannot marry, and I am sure you have read it is a discipline of the Church going way back to when it was formally brought forward by the Spanish priests in the 300’s.
Prior to that, we have great witness of saints, just as Porknpie shared the beautiful post of St. Cecilia who was a virgin when she was martyred. There is the great witness of Perpetua and Felicity and Saturnas, a male, who were all 3 martyred in Carthage in the 200’s, all remaining celibate because their conversion to Christ was so complete, so thorough, they wanted nothing more of this life.
You can find the same sentiment in Catholic priests.
And many who feel sorry for them do not know them as human beings or are knowledgeable of the lives they lead. They are very social, their daily calendar full of people, of get togethers, and so on, and the vast majority are most fulfilled and happy in their vocation.
Their greatest sentiment is not about not having a family.
The greatest sentiment of a priest is that Christ has called them to this most wonderful life and they know they are not worthy and for that know it is truly a calling.
S
Sabacthani
Guest
Guess that’s proof, then. I’m not Whyme. I don’t care if you believe me, Tex.If you’re former LDS and present Catholic, then you know what “pastoral” means.
I was curious about who was obsessed with me, so I checked your profile:
Two questions.
1.Are you an attorney in the state of Texas, or is Texas just a part of your sig?
2. How does one get the “Current Job” of “Former Active Duty”?
S
Sabacthani
Guest
Thank you for your thoughtful words, Kathleen. I actually get treated a lot better by the mormon community now that I make clear that I’m not a member. I was marginalized as a member, but as a friendly non-member who frequently comes to church, I’m treated quite well. Funny, isn’t it?
To clarify my earlier remarks, I don’t feel sorry for the priests who can’t marry; I feel sorry for the Catholic community who are culling some of their best and brightest from the gene pool. I think of the wonderful Catholic children they would have raised, and that makes me sad.
Well-said and amen!
K
KathleenGee
Guest
For Evanfaust…
In regards to the link about Galileo, I noted that they are from the LDS folks.
The Dark Ages of early church history refer to the times following the end of the Roman Empire’s persecution of Christianity. This time was not dark for the Church in itself, but the flourishing of monasteries in the model of St. Benedict.
Here the monasteries were places of great learning and the monks provided support to the surrounding populations in animal husbandry, agriculture, irrigation, biology, as well as providing spiritual support and direction for them. The same can be said for those in England when it broke away and the native populations, against their will, lost the monasteries, that subsequently brought about poverty to these peoples.
The Church has a great history of intellectual development and was the first institution to provide not only hospitals and hospices for people, but instituted schools and universities for the common people. In Mexico, it was the center of learning for the New World in the 1500’s and had indigenous Indian professors teaching at its budding universities. So much was demolished during and following the Masonic revolutions.
The Church set up the grading system, the baccalaureate, master and ph.d. system of grading and educational achievement. It also contributed to scientific frameworks. Copernicus and Galileo were greatly admired for their accomplishments, and when Galileo arrived in Rome, he received tremendous applause by the cardinals.
In specific regards to Galileo, he step outside the form of presentation. The Church was waiting for Copernicus to complete his work and then have Galileo present his.
Likewise, at that time in the world, just about everybody considered the world flat.
Anyway, Galileo went outside the framework. Then the next wrong that he did was go beyond his jurisdiction and into the realm of theology and sacred scripture. What he did was similar to Luther in that Luther removed some books of Scripture to justify his position. Galileo sought to remove a line of Scripture to uphold his theory.
So what actually got Galileo in big trouble was that he deviated and not only went outside his jurisdiction into theology, but in wanting to remove a part of Scripture. The apostles and St. Paul exhort us…and you can see this warning on a wall at the Cathedral of the Madeleine in SLC, that anyone who attempts to change a word of Scripture…is anathema.
So Galileo committed anathema in removing a line of Sacred Scripture to support his scientific theory.
You look today at people making Scripture say something it is not intended to say and the terrible divisions and even bigotry among Christianity. We must always stay with the understanding of Scripture given us by the apostles…as was stated specifically by St. Peter in his second letter, ch 2.
In regards to the link about Galileo, I noted that they are from the LDS folks.
The Dark Ages of early church history refer to the times following the end of the Roman Empire’s persecution of Christianity. This time was not dark for the Church in itself, but the flourishing of monasteries in the model of St. Benedict.
Here the monasteries were places of great learning and the monks provided support to the surrounding populations in animal husbandry, agriculture, irrigation, biology, as well as providing spiritual support and direction for them. The same can be said for those in England when it broke away and the native populations, against their will, lost the monasteries, that subsequently brought about poverty to these peoples.
The Church has a great history of intellectual development and was the first institution to provide not only hospitals and hospices for people, but instituted schools and universities for the common people. In Mexico, it was the center of learning for the New World in the 1500’s and had indigenous Indian professors teaching at its budding universities. So much was demolished during and following the Masonic revolutions.
The Church set up the grading system, the baccalaureate, master and ph.d. system of grading and educational achievement. It also contributed to scientific frameworks. Copernicus and Galileo were greatly admired for their accomplishments, and when Galileo arrived in Rome, he received tremendous applause by the cardinals.
In specific regards to Galileo, he step outside the form of presentation. The Church was waiting for Copernicus to complete his work and then have Galileo present his.
Likewise, at that time in the world, just about everybody considered the world flat.
Anyway, Galileo went outside the framework. Then the next wrong that he did was go beyond his jurisdiction and into the realm of theology and sacred scripture. What he did was similar to Luther in that Luther removed some books of Scripture to justify his position. Galileo sought to remove a line of Scripture to uphold his theory.
So what actually got Galileo in big trouble was that he deviated and not only went outside his jurisdiction into theology, but in wanting to remove a part of Scripture. The apostles and St. Paul exhort us…and you can see this warning on a wall at the Cathedral of the Madeleine in SLC, that anyone who attempts to change a word of Scripture…is anathema.
So Galileo committed anathema in removing a line of Sacred Scripture to support his scientific theory.
You look today at people making Scripture say something it is not intended to say and the terrible divisions and even bigotry among Christianity. We must always stay with the understanding of Scripture given us by the apostles…as was stated specifically by St. Peter in his second letter, ch 2.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Sabacthani…
The last part of your name sounds Mormon like the names they have in their texts.
Yes, life is full of ironies.
I was at a Carmelite meeting and the provincial priest told everyone when someone is being considered for sainthood, the first thing they look at is how badly Catholics treated them…and how they endured in the life Christ called them to.
I will offer you up at the altar this evening at the vigil Mass for your intentions and your faith walk.
God bless!
The last part of your name sounds Mormon like the names they have in their texts.
Yes, life is full of ironies.
I was at a Carmelite meeting and the provincial priest told everyone when someone is being considered for sainthood, the first thing they look at is how badly Catholics treated them…and how they endured in the life Christ called them to.
I will offer you up at the altar this evening at the vigil Mass for your intentions and your faith walk.
God bless!
S
Sabacthani
Guest
Thank you and God bless you, Kathleen.
My sig is one of Christ’s last words on the Cross. Eloi Eloi Lama Sabacthani. I think it means “forsaken.”
As you seem to have picked up on, I’m having a hard time at this point in life.
My sig is one of Christ’s last words on the Cross. Eloi Eloi Lama Sabacthani. I think it means “forsaken.”
As you seem to have picked up on, I’m having a hard time at this point in life.
T
TexanKnight
Guest
Exactly what he would have said…shrug and all
If you’re former LDS and present Catholic, then you know what “pastoral” means.
I was curious about who was obsessed with me, so I checked your profile:
Obsessed? Not hardly. I think obsession begins with checking profiles. I have not done that. I just noticed the similarities.
Two questions.
1.Are you an attorney in the state of Texas, or is Texas just a part of your sig?
I do not lie. Nor would I make it part of my sig if it was not true. In fact, I was LDS while in law school. Yes…I am an attorney in Texas
I spent 6 years active. I am now a LTC in the Guard.
- How does one get the “Current Job” of “Former Active Duty”?
S
Sabacthani
Guest
Why are you so defensive? You’re the one attacking me and calling me a liar. I did not accuse you of lying. Lots of people from Texas call themselves Texans even though they no longer live in Texas. That’s not a “lie.” And lots of attorneys from Texas aren’t necessarily barred in Texas.
I doubt that I’m the only believing ex-mormon out there. And since I never met Whyme and don’t hang out on Mormon blogs anymore, I can’t speak to whether he was honest.
"I just noticed the similarities. "
And you’ve talked about them for five posts at least. It’s getting creepy. Have the mod check my IP or something. Since you brag about how you got Whyme banned, I guess I’d better avoid engaging you. You seem to have it out for me.
“I spent 6 years active.”
Awesome. Where did you serve?
I doubt that I’m the only believing ex-mormon out there. And since I never met Whyme and don’t hang out on Mormon blogs anymore, I can’t speak to whether he was honest.
"I just noticed the similarities. "
And you’ve talked about them for five posts at least. It’s getting creepy. Have the mod check my IP or something. Since you brag about how you got Whyme banned, I guess I’d better avoid engaging you. You seem to have it out for me.
“I spent 6 years active.”
Awesome. Where did you serve?
T
TexanKnight
Guest
Stephen168
New member
no. A horse is a being that isn’t a person
T
twopekinguys
Guest
You would think after two bans. One his, and the other supposedly his “daughter”, he would figure out he would be busted.
Oops, what am I thinking?
What was one of whyme’s favorite statements. People can leave the mormon church, but, they can’t leave it alone.
Seems like that is him, and CAF…LOL
Z
zaffiroborant
Guest
I think it’s funny in a post that opens decrying pride in which church practices are better you continue to praise the LDS way and belittle the Catholic way. You say you don’t want to get into a prideful contest, but what it comes down to is you want to tell Catholics that they are wrong and don’t want to discuss it.
I still do not see what is so special about an unpaid clergy, which you find so much better than a paid clergy, and you are unwilling to even say why it’s good let alone discuss it. It seems you just want to state your opinions, that’s not dialog it’s monologue and I can’t manage a modicum of respect for someone who only wants to lecture another group on their perceived failings.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
I don’t think Sabacthani is why me.You would think after two bans. One his, and the other supposedly his “daughter”, he would figure out he would be busted.
Oops, what am I thinking?
What was one of whyme’s favorite statements. People can leave the mormon church, but, they can’t leave it alone.
Seems like that is him, and CAF…LOL
I can’t imagine why me would ever leave Mormonism, officially.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
I can see how you might think this way. So maybe the Catholic perspective will help.
Both marriage and holy orders are Sacraments in the Catholic Church. Both marriage and holy orders are considered a vocation, a calling, from God. Both are choices, made freely.
As for families, there are many strong spiritual Catholic parents who are raising their children. Catholics who have large families.
Children are encouraged to discern where God calls them, and a grown child who chooses to enter the priesthood, or religious life as a monk or nun, is considered a great blessing to the Church. It is a sacrifice, one given to God and for God.Likewise, marriage is a choice, as is a single life. All of us have the same vocation. To serve God. Not all of us serve God in the same way. Each adds to the life of the Church.
Hope that helps.
Z
zaffiroborant
Guest
And there are no awkward sentence structures or mauled metaphors in his posts.I don’t think Sabacthani is why me.
T
twopekinguys
Guest
T
Telstar
Guest
Absolutely!I can see how you might think this way. So maybe the Catholic perspective will help.
Both marriage and holy orders are Sacraments in the Catholic Church. Both marriage and holy orders are considered a vocation, a calling, from God. Both are choices, made freely.
As for families, there are many strong spiritual Catholic parents who are raising their children. Catholics who have large families.
Likewise, marriage is a choice, as is a single life. All of us have the same vocation. To serve God. Not all of us serve God in the same way. Each adds to the life of the Church.
Hope that helps.
As I also said in the thread about praying to the Saints, that many of them are from religious orders, like monks and nuns, as well as priests. Because they spend their lives focusing more on God through prayer and spirituality, they can advance in holiness much faster, and to a higher degree, than those of us who have other things, like families, to distract us from spending time with God. Their vocation doesn’t take anything away from the Church. Instead, it adds to the holiness of the whole Church, because they can devote themselves to pray for the rest of us who don’t always have a lot of time to pray. So, it’s actually a great blessing for the whole Church.
R
rmcmullan
Guest
This is a teaching unique to the Book of Mormon. See 2 Nephi 2:19:
In other words, before the Fall of Man, there was no death and no births, the garden remained in the state it was when that God created it.
T
TexanKnight
Guest
You should have more faith in God. it is a shame that you must believe that God had no other ideas but to make two people and sit around and hope they would disobey Him…
- Status