Convert Seeks Guidance (Trouble in RCIA)

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This is my point. I want to do precicely this.

I started by asking what I need to learn in order to be a good Catholic, and I am frankly astonished at the people who are saying I shouldn’t want that.

Should I try to be a bad Catholic?

Grateful as I am to those who have tried to help, is there really no concrete teaching on how to be a good Catholic? Have the bishops given us no guidance at all? Is it OK to drink beer and watch trashy movies all day? If not, then what demands does Catholicism make on the Catholic?
This post is offensive to every poster who has tried to help you on this thread. I hope this isn’t the attitude you bring to RCIA.

If you are in RCIA you have a sponsor. This sponsor should be attending class with you to help with things you don’t understand. If you are asking about the mechanics of going to reconciliation or how to receive communion, then ask those questions.

The way to be a good Catholic is to come with an open mind and an open heart. Being a good Catholic is to be willing, willing to hear, willing to be open to knowledge others may have. The definition of a good Catholic is different for everyone. There is no absolute on what it means to be a “good” Catholic.
 
Finally, I am really getting tired of being called a Pharisee. I’m not a legalist and I’m not scrupulous. I am trying to learn the faith for the first time. If you would only like to insult me, then please leave this thread and get a life.
No one has insulted you on this thread and no one has called you any names. If you want an idea of what a “good” Catholic is, this isn’t it.

As far as the mechanics of the Mass, follow your congregation. If they don’t kneel then don’t kneel. It’s okay to make mistakes during Mass, we all do it. When I was in RCIA I would go to the vigil Mass to observe & learn the order of the Mass, and the Sunday Mass when we were excused.
 
Assuming you’re not just putting us on, your comments are disturbing. There is no one way “to be a good Catholic” and there is not a check list–although you can, of course, provide a list of ideas, as some have. Was Mother Teresa a “good Catholic”? Sure. Is the guy down the street who drinks beer as he watches trashy movies a “good Catholic”? Sure. Can you disagree with certain teachings–for example, birth control, and still be a “good Catholic”? Sure. If you want to spend your life in prayer and contemplation, good for you, but that’s not what 99.999% of Catholics do. If you obsess about achieving perfection, you’re going to have a lot of problems since you’ll never achieve it. Simply try to inform your conscience and follow your conscience. Don’t be overly scrupulous. Don’t worry about the trivial (you missed Mass on Sunday because there was a snow storm) and meanwhile, as a business executive, cheat your customers. Don’t worry about not saying your prayers and at the same time treat every one you meet like dirt. In other words, simply try to be a good person. You don’t need a rule book for that.
Nope.

This was rude. I got the same kind of insulting, accusative remarks when I asked simple questions. Not all who ask questions are scrupulous or disturbed.

It’s just honest questions.
 
Thanks for the help with the mass, St Francis. I never know when to kneel because the people in my church don’t do it. I’ve heard that there are different rites, so is the general sequence the same at every church?
There are different rites, but mostly you will end up at regular Ordinary Form Western rite. I have been to Byzantine Divine Liturgies, and they are fabulous, if you ever get a chance to go 🙂 Just follow the congregation as well as you can, and don’t worry because everyone has been through not knowing what’s going on when they go to Mass on vacation, for instance, and they have different rules about kneeling.

I did forget one thing: right after the priest announces the Gospel (A reading from the Gospel of Luke), everyone will do something strange with their hand. What they are doing is tracing a cross on their foreheads, their lips, and over their hearts, intending this prayer: “The wording may vary; I was taught to say, ‘May the Word of the Lord be on my mind [make the Sign of the Cross on the forehead], on my lips [then on the lips], and in my heart [on the chest].’” Cross your forefinger across your thumb to form a little cross.
peter26 seems to have given the beginnings of an answer with the 5 precepts. That does not seem to encompass the entire Catholic faith, though. What else is there?
There is just so much; after 20+ years, I am still learning. Don’t worry, think about it like a regular education: we teach beginners the basics, and then when they have that down, we teach them more. Eventually they know all the basics, and they go to college and study totally different things.

The 5 precepts are just like the very minimal things required of Catholics, structured for Catholics all over the world: some live in remote areas where they can’t get to mass very often.
Finally, I am really getting tired of being called a Pharisee. I’m not a legalist and I’m not scrupulous. I am trying to learn the faith for the first time. If you would only like to insult me, then please leave this thread and get a life.
When people are rude, a Catholic will offer up the annoyance/pain/incinvenience caused by another. We must all remember that we have done similar things 😉

I off things up by saying this paryer: All for Thee, dear Jesus, Who has suffered so much for me, but now I am learning this one: Oh my Jesus, I offer this for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
 
Thanks for the help with the mass, St Francis. I never know when to kneel because the people in my church don’t do it.
At this point in your journey, don’t worry about the written law. Just do what those around you are doing. Chances are, they have their Bishop’s permission to do whatever they’re doing, and in any case, for the sake of congregational unity, it’s okay to do it “wrong” if everyone is doing it “wrong.” In my Diocese, we are asked to stand after receiving Holy Communion, but at one parish where I go, everyone kneels. Guess what I do when I go to that parish? I kneel - not because I suddenly forget that we’re supposed to stand, but because I’m not the liturgy police - I’m there to pray with my community, and that’s how they pray, so we all do it that way - even though everywhere else I go, they (and I) stand at that point in the Mass.

The rule is, charity. Do as ye would be done by. Don’t criticize what you don’t understand. Be ever so gentle with everyone you meet.
I’ve heard that there are different rites, so is the general sequence the same at every church?
There are different Rites, but you are unlikely to encounter any other than your own in your own general area, unless you make a point of visiting a Church where they celebrate a different Rite. This can’t happen by accident - you’ll know before you get through the front door that it’s not the same kind of Catholic Church as where you’re doing your RCIA.
Peter26 seems to have given the beginnings of an answer with the 5 precepts. That does not seem to encompass the entire Catholic faith, though. What else is there
I encourage my Candidates to pray every morning and evening, and to pray mealtime prayers.

I also encourage them to read the Bible in a systematic way, and we have a reading plan that we give them on the day that we do the Introduction to the Scriptures.

But no one is “wrong” if they aren’t asking you to do these things - these things are good, but optional. As long as your RCIA leaders are inviting you to Mass for your Breaking Open the Word sessions, and welcoming you to your Catechism classes during the week (and doing their own best to instruct you in the faith and prepare you for your Rites and Sacraments), they’re doing what they’re supposed to be doing.

RCIA can be messy at times, and confusing. Ask when you don’t know what’s going on. If an instructor seems to be going off into la-la land on a cloud of impenetrable Greek or Latin poetry, raise your hand and ask him to explain how you’re going to be using this information in a practical way during your Neophyte Year, or what practical effect this information is supposed to have on your relationship with Jesus. This will remind him that he needs to connect the theological principles he’s discussing with the everyday experience of normal people.
 
I have been considering the Catholic Church. I think before I ever started to give advice I’d want to ask “Where are you coming from, and why are you interrested?”

It’s hard to give good advice if you don’t know the person.

I won’t try to give you the list of what you should do - it’s not my favorite approach. I am not Catholic yet, and ultimately I have experienced too many cases where the list was followed, but I didn’t see conversion of the heart.

Just my thoughts, I am no theologian, and I wish I could help more.

God Bless on your journey
 
jmcrae is right about do as you would be done by, and Markie Boy is spot on about conversion of heart.

The value in the 5 Precepts is that it shows how little there is to being Catholic. The image is that one is loaded with heavy going burdens. I’ve always found (what I suspected to be) the real thing just as free and easy as the (true - when I could find it) Protestant faith.

So, all those lists are really suggestions, to dip into for the rest of your life.

The main thing is stick close to Christ and His Scriptures and other people who are doing the same as that.
 
Thank you for your recommendations. A couple of those books are sitting on my desk right now. They are interesting, but when I ask what I need to learn in order to be a good Catholic, “all of it” cannot be the answer. I’ve never met anyone at church who knows all of it. Next to none of it is required for the rites of initiation.

What I am looking for, which I think I have been clear about, is what specific things I need to learn so I can live as a Catholic, fulfilling all of my obligations, without neglecting anything due to ignorance.
A good catholic first is a good christian. That means to be an ardent follower of Christ…not because he judges you, but because He loves you. Everything you do should be done out of love for Jesus. 1 Cor 13 is the famous description of love by St Paul. It describes a number of characteristics of one who loves…a perfect love is all of these. Only God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is a perfect love. We can strive to be like God (as Jesus suggests in the Gospel) in love, but we must accept the fact that God’s love is totally a “Giving of love,” not a receiving of love. To that end, continue to seek ways to love as God loves us. We will never achieve perfection in this life. Again as Paul says in 1 Cor 13…Love will become perfect when we see God face-to-face.

OK. So far it seems the Catholic Church doesn’t enter in to my recommendation. But you will see that it does in the same way the tools of the carpenter enter into his profession. Of themselves they cannot build or repair, but when taken up by a carpenter, first as an apprentice then as a skilled workman.

The Church then in a broad sense has been the tools Jesus left us (with His gift of Mercy and Everlasting life before He returned to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father.

The Church from its beginning with Jesus and then His apostles was place here by them to strengthen His followers and enable them to bring others to Him. A beautiful gift left us by Jesus and fostered first by His Apostles, then by those who knew Jesus or knew Him through their personal familiarity with the Apostles. They passed on what they had learned first by speaking directly to the new followers of “The Way,” then later, as the Church grew, by letters (epistles and Gospels). They struggled against the tyranny of non-believers, and against the heresies of misinterpretation of Jesus’ message. Ultimately, they collected the writings that truly reflected Jesus’ Word, and discarded the rest as being tainted with heretical views.

Over the millennium, the Church has despite pressure from without, and pressures from within has grown and survived, not just because of what was done by men in women, though many have been lifted up as examples as “saints” most of which were converts like you. No, the Church survives and grows because Jesus Himself assured us that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against His Church.

Through the millennia, the Church has suffered the pain of separation of brethren, but his should not be construed as a separation of our brethren from Jesus or salvation. Though they are separated from the Church, they be so because they have rejected some of the various tools that Jesus and the Apostles gave us, the Mass (still essentially the same form that it was when instituted at the last supper, and formulated by the Apostles and early Church Fathers Reference Dr Scott Hahn (a searching convert like yourself) at
www.Scotthahn.com/books. I recommend you start with his search “Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism.”

Other tools discarded by those who turned away from the Church, but not from Jesus, are the Sacraments…very strong tools to strengthen we apprentices of the Lord. Reference another convert Dr Brant Pitre, especially his “Jewish Roots of the Eucharist.” You’ve perhaps had enough books to go find and read. So first go to Youtube.com and search on “Drbrantpitre.” One of the first on the list you will find is his presentation of “Jewish roots of the Eucharist.” There are others I could recommend, many of them converts to the Church. You could almost envision God strengthening His Church by the energy and experiences of the converts that come to the Church. And having been deprived of all of these gifts of the Church are more appreciative of their value than we who have been here from birth.

There are still plenty of heretics out there writing books and claiming to know the real message of Jesus, but it still comes down to …if you want to build up the following of Jesus, and out of love for Him continue His ministry here on earth, wouldn’t you want to use the most complete bag of ‘tools’ that have already been proven by many master builders who came before us??

All of that comes down to, I don’t think you will find a list of things that make you a “good Catholic.” unless a list of minimums as you suggested earlier. I sometimes wish there were a precise list of “how to get to Heaven.” But then that is exactly what prevented the rich man from doing what Jesus told him in order to become His follower. Without love, even if there were a list, you would be dangerously close to being like the Pharisees that Jesus was critical of, not because they were irreligious, but because they relegated Heaven to a list of Merit badges.

Rather, strengthen your ‘carpentry skills’ by utilizing the tools of the Church, the Mass, the Sacraments, the Community. Then be the hands and feet of our Lord here on Earth to continue His ministry with all you encounter. As good carpenters, we kind of build our own stairs to Heaven! Stay blest, little brother. Welcome Home.
 
I have been attending RCIA class at my church for a year, and I feel I have made little progress through these lessons. The topics seem to be chosen at random, and I am usually referred to Google when I ask questions. Easter is approaching, and I’d like to learn how to be a good Catholic before confirmation. What do you think a convert needs to know?
An good book to learn all the basics is The Faith Explained by Leo Tresse.
No of pages: 645
Size: 12x18 cm
ISBN: 978-07270-2-7
 
I know the Five Precepts have been discussed, but if you’d like to cover it in video format, here’s one from Fr. Mike Schmitz (Diocese of Duluth, Minnesota) called ‘What Constitutes a Practicing Catholic?’ (6:44):

youtube.com/watch?v=jrGW5G8QqQ4
 
Thanks for your responses so far. Just to clarify, I have read the Catechism, the Compendium, and several other books that were recommended by people at my church. These books contain much that is obviously not essential. For example, I don’t think I need to know the Church’s position on arms proliferation in order to prepare for Baptism. On the other hand, I just found out that I was supposed to attend Mass on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. Nobody told me.

In fact, nobody will teach me what to do at Mass even though I have asked many times.

Since our RCIA team has made it clear that they will not teach the Catholic faith, I have come to the CA forum to see if anyone could tell me what topics to focus on. Maybe everything I need is in the Catechism, but I need guidance to see it. I cannot learn the faith on my own.

The manual for the rites of initiation says that the catechumen should memorize the Lord’s Prayer and the Apostle’s Creed. That’s the bare minimum. Surely we owe our Lord more than the bare minimum. What do I need to learn so I can be a good Catholic?
You might try the Library section of this website, you might also approach another parish in your diocese and see if you can sit in on another RCIA program. You could also call the parish office and ask to speak to the pastor, share your concerns and see if he has any advice.

Some authors that I feel are very helpful: Scott Hahn (he’s a convert)–has has a book about entitled “The Lamb’s Supper” that is on my must read list, and Peter Kreeft are both excellent. Also, you might find listening to EWTN Radio to be quite helpful. There is a show in the afternoon called “Called to Communion”, and I find Father John Riccardo’s talks to be quite enlightening.

After confirmation, continue your learning, especially if you have a Pius VI group in your diocese, they can be invaluable.

As far as what you need to learn to be a good catholic…The basics are the apostles creed, then build on that.

Search for holy days of obligation (those are the days you must attend mass outside of Sunday).

What to do at mass: When you enter the church, you bless yourself with holy water and then find a pew, kneeling or bowing toward the tabernacle before entering your pew. If you are physically able, you should kneel and pray prior to mass beginning. You can sit after you are finished praying if mass has not yet begun.

When mass begins, follow along in the missalette, (the postures to be assumed are usually in italics). Follow the crowd for kneeling, sitting, standing. Do not copy the priests postures as they are strictly his (even if others in the congregation do that).

When everyone goes to communion, you can also go toward the alter and receive a blessing before confirmation (with your arms crossed over your chest, the priest will know you are not to receive the Eucharist). You can also stay in your pew and sing along with the choir or pray about becoming ready to receive the Eucharist after confirmation.

This isn’t all-inclusive, but hope it helps.
 
OMGosh, I forgot to mention to study the sacraments.

As a cradle catholic, it has been very interesting for me to read this thread. It wasn’t until I went to a catholic university and was compelled to take theology classes that I learned about my faith. Before that it was just going along.
 
OMGosh, I forgot to mention to study the sacraments.

As a cradle catholic, it has been very interesting for me to read this thread. It wasn’t until I went to a catholic university and was compelled to take theology classes that I learned about my faith. Before that it was just going along.
Too many are doing just that.
 
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