Converting from Catholic to Protestant...

[JonNC]

=CoachSTL;6296237]

=JonNC;6292873]
I am honestly happy that you are secure in your faith, and I know that the Holy Spirit works through the Catholic Church to bring His grace, just as He does in my Lutheran Church.

First, I want you to continue to receive His grace, period. But let’s see.

The Augsburg Confession: *“Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed 2] to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise.” *

Doesn’t sound like we want people to stop receiving the Eucharist.

Augsburg Confession: *Of Confession they teach that Private Absolution ought to be retained in the churches, although in confession 2] an enumeration of all sins is not necessary. For it is impossible according to the Psalm: Who can understand his errors? Ps. 19:12. *

If you believe that praying for intercession focuses you on Christ, fine. Millions of Christians east and west have found great comfort in the practice for centuries. We see no evidence in scripture that the saints can hear our requests for intercession, though we know they pray for the Church Militant in a general sense.

Given the choice, the Lutheran reformers chose to obey the Gospel. When the day comes that our communions agree, then we will joyfully obey the Gospel together, and acknowledge the special role the Bishop of Rome plays in the Church Catholic.

Lutherans will tell you that adoration is fine (we do it during the sacramental act), so long as the recognition of the purpose of His precious body and blood are as Christ commands - in the eating and drinking.

Actually, I already answered your question in my first sentence.

Jon,

When you can show me that the Apostles taught everything you just stated, than your points have validity. And, when you can show me that any Lutheran Minister was apppointed by God to interpret the Old and New Testament I will become Lutheran.

One Church, because of one Teaching started by Christ and passed on by the Apostles and so on up until this very moment and next. Come on home!

Since I am part of the One Church started by Christ, that being the congregation of believers, the communion of saints, I am as home as you are.
But I’m curious where I was wrong here.
First, I quoted Augsburg in support of the Real Presence - taught by the entire Church.
Then I quoted Augsburg in support of Private Confession.
I offered a stance on Invocation, not explicit in scripture, that was not a condemnation, and finished with a similar stance on Adoration of the sacrament, also not explicit in scripture.
Where was I at cross purposes with scripture?

As for authority of Lutheran pastors to teach, the same as Catholic priests, Orthodox priests, etc. as members of the special ministry, called and ordained. That other may not recognize it is irrelevent.

Jon

 

[ccolley]

the Pope is the biggest obstacle to Christian Unity-

The Pope himself? or the Papal Office??

in the early Church and up to the 19th century the Pope was not “infallible” when speaking on Faith and Morals but it came in a flash when it suited Pope Leo

 

[IrishEddieOHara]

It appears that there has been a dearth of actual reasons given for defection from our Lord’s Church. I have never made the trip from Catholicism to Protestantism, being instead a convert after a lifetime of being Protestant, but there are things I do see in those with whom I have posted debates on the Internet.

1. A severe and most telling lack of understanding of what the Church teaches. It is amazing that I find myself, as a convert to the Faith, teaching X Catholics what the Church teaches and trying to show them how they are wrong.
2. A fear of eternal damnation. Unlike our irenic Lutheran friend on this board, the X Catholics I have seen have to a man insisted that my acceptance of the Catholic Faith has surely damned my soul to eternal perdition. In other words, they were probably not all that comfortable with the state of their soul before they converted. All it took was someone showing them that they were sinners and needed to make a “decision for Jesus” so that they could be sure they are going to Heaven. They were told that they could have absolute assurance of Heaven, no purgation after death, and they were shown a bunch of verses, ripped out of context, to prove these false ideas.
3. Lack of understanding of the Bible properly interpreted. In keeping with the second answer above, the X Catholic had little to no understanding of the great doctrines of the Faith which separate us from Protestants, the most notable being that of “forensic justification” or “salvation by faith alone.” Most Evangelical and Fundamentalist “soul winners” (aka sheep stealers) are well trained in methodology of quoting select verses to prove their point and confuse the potential convert. No Catholic knows enough Greek, for instance, to take the Protestant to Romans 4 and destroy the false notion of “imputed righteousness.” (Sungenis’ aforementioned book NOT BY FAITH ALONE does a splendid job of doing such).
4. Complete lack of Bible knowledge. This was something I constantly found when I was a Fundamentalist and went door-to-door on Thursday night “soul winning”. Catholics simply did not know their Bible. That made them easy targets for all the cults (which explains why such a high percentage of Mormons and JW’s are former Catholics). If you don’t know your Bible and you don’t know your faith, how in the world are you going to defend yourself against the wolves in sheep’s clothing that come to your door?

Furthermore, if you don’t know the Bible and have not studied it with good aids, you will miss the many beautiful typological truths in it which point to the Catholic Faith. You will not be able to see that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, that the Passover prefigures the Eucharist, that Melchizedek is a type of Jesus, that Noah and the Ark are a picture of how baptism saves us from the waters of God’s wrath, etc.

1. Laziness. The living out of the Gospel is how we obtain Heaven. John 5: 28-29 and Romans 2: 5-10 tell us very clearly that we shall be judged upon the quality of our works as to whether we enter eternal bliss or not. I think some X Catholics were attracted to Protestantism because it offers a lazy man’s way to Heaven – i.e., no works of any kind are really required to get to Heaven. All you have to do, as in the words of so many Protestant evangelists I have heard, is to “believe and you will be as sure for Heaven as if you were standing there now.”
2. X Catholics did not listen in CCD, did not learn their Faith, and possibly worst of all, they never saw their parents taking it seriously. American Catholics are far and away the worst about not really appreciating the Faith. In many European countries, the faith is strong because the parents were not as busy chasing dollars (Euros) as they were living out the Faith. That leaves a serious impression on a child.

There’s probably a couple more good reasons, but these come to mind more immediately.

 

[DHC1Chipmunk]

I left Protestantism because in some cases I could pick my own theology by hopping from denomination to denomination. (Predestination, for example, between Presbyterian and Methodist churches.) The inconsistency put up a red flag for me.

I’m sure, however, this could happen the opposite way - a Catholic could find choosing a theology to be an appealing change of pace.

Just two cents’ worth.

 

[Bengoshi]

Hi there!

Check out “Truth Encounter” by Fr. Anthony Pezzotta. It may give you the answer you need!

Godbless!

 

[hope_7]

I wish that there was less bashing of the protestant church! Sometimes when I read thease threads it seems that there is no true desire to understand but only to speak against and justify how right you think you are without even looking to see why or even to really try to hear what someone else is saying.

I have met catholics who have left the catholic church Some are in the baptist church some ars in the penticostal churches some are in the charismatic churches Some of. the ones that I met seemed angry because they felt that they were being decieved by the Catholic church. I had a hard time understanding this at first. It wasent that they were ignorant about the teachings of the church or were upset with some pastor and left. They practiced what was taught and were faithful to the church and its teachings.

There were others who were not angry but had left because they did not find many of the teachings and traditions of the church to agree with what scripture taught.

The thing that tied them all together was the issue of being born again. They had come to the place where they realised that being baptised as an infint, going to confession, confirmation,partakeing of the euchrist, and so on was not what could really bring cleansing from sin and a true relationship with God through Jesus Christ God’s only begotten Son.

Many that I have read on this sight really do not have a true conception of what it means to be born again. Please understand that I am not trying to bash the catholic church at all by saying thease things. It is hard to grasp or let oneself hear what is being said if all you want to do is fight against this being born again. But when talking to thease people who left the catholic church this is the MAIN issue of why they left the catholic church. Thease are very dedicated people who love the Lord and some of them are in full time ministry.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I wish that there was less bashing of the protestant church! Sometimes when I read thease threads it seems that there is no true desire to understand but only to speak against and justify how right you think you are without even looking to see why or even to really try to hear what someone else is saying.

I have met catholics who have left the catholic church Some are in the baptist church some ars in the penticostal churches some are in the charismatic churches Some of. the ones that I met seemed angry because they felt that they were being decieved by the Catholic church. I had a hard time understanding this at first. It wasent that they were ignorant about the teachings of the church or were upset with some pastor and left. They practiced what was taught and were faithful to the church and its teachings.

There were others who were not angry but had left because they did not find many of the teachings and traditions of the church to agree with what scripture taught.

The thing that tied them all together was the issue of being born again. They had come to the place where they realised that being baptised as an infint, going to confession, confirmation,partakeing of the euchrist, and so on was not what could really bring cleansing from sin and a true relationship with God through Jesus Christ God’s only begotten Son.

Many that I have read on this sight really do not have a true conception of what it means to be born again. Please understand that I am not trying to bash the catholic church at all by saying thease things. It is hard to grasp or let oneself hear what is being said if all you want to do is fight against this being born again. But when talking to thease people who left the catholic church this is the MAIN issue of why they left the catholic church. Thease are very dedicated people who love the Lord and some of them are in full time ministry.

Hello hope. Do you not consider those who are in the Catholic Church to be born again? Or are the only ones who are born again those who leave the Catholic Church?

God bless

 

[uglygal]

Have they not heard about the1994 Ligouri publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, with imprimi potest by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict, himself), as Interdicasterial Commission for the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states, in Part One, The Profession of Faith, in its affirmation (at page 224, Nos. 846 and 847), “ … they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it?” Do they even realize what they’re doing to themselves? …

I have nothing but pity for baptized Catholics who have turned their backs on their Church, for whatever reason, and will continue to pray for them for as long as I live. And, if it’s possible, will pray more into the next life.

for some (many more than catholics like to admit) they are freeing themselves from systematic abuse and a hell centered theology that destroyed their self esteem, childhood, security, peace and left them with misery and fear as their only knowledge of love. But you won’t believe me.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Thanks for all the replies. So by becoming Protestant I gain nothing? By staying Catholic I lose nothing?

Why change?

 

[PassingThru]

Thanks for all the replies. So by becoming Protestant I gain nothing? By staying Catholic I lose nothing?

Why change?

Yes. You will gain nothing. Please stay where you are.

Sheesh.

 

[gamewell45]

Thanks for all the replies. So by becoming Protestant I gain nothing? By staying Catholic I lose nothing?

QUOTE]

If you become Protestant, you can join the Freemasons without worrying about being in a grave state of sin.

 

[Javl]

the Pope is the biggest obstacle to Christian Unity-people must remember that Apostolic Succession and the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome have been used as Political tools for centuries-a good example is Pope Leo deciding that the orders of the Episcopal Church were not valid based on some interpretation of “the form” of orders-this was Politics-yet “Old Catholic” orders are valid and they use the same “form” as the episcopals and are not in communion with Rome

Pope Leo XII declared them not valid because there was a question of invalid ordinations by other than a validly ordained Bishop. It has been found that many, but not all Epicopal ordinations are valid.

in the early Church and up to the 19th century the Pope was not “infallible” when speaking on Faith and Morals but it came in a flash when it suited Pope Leo

All Popes were always considered infallible in matters of faith and morals. It didn’t come as a flash because Pope Leo XII decided so. It was confirmed once and for all by council.

The Orthodox Churches are accepted as valid by the Roman Catholics yet they surely do not believe in the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome-

And that is the major stumbling block to unity. Remember, Jesus put Peter in charge. I believe the schism is more political than theological or spiritual. Why give up a good thing when you have it?

“First among equals” would solve much of Christian Unity issues-in reality the Curia does not want to change anything and that is fine but they should stop giving lip service to ecumenism and say these are our rules and that is it-the Pope decides big issues (and do not pretend that the “Councils” decide just look at the recommendations of the Vatican Council working group on Birth Control and how it was rejected by the Pope) -period no discussion and was obeyed by the Clergy

Again, keep in mind that Jesus put Peter in charge ( Mt 16:18, Jn 21:15-17" ) and, since the Pope is a successor to Peter, the Pope has charge of the Church. This is an awesome responsibility.

As for the councils, the Pope obeys their directives, since they form part of the Magisterium of the Church. Also Pope Paul VI’s encyclical on sexuality and birth control ( Humane Vitae, 1968 ) was attacked by not only secularists, but by Catholics as well, and not the other way around.

The Roman Catholic Church at least says no -look at the mess the Episcopal and Lutheran Churches are in by not saying no

Maybe the Episcopal Church, but I doubt the Lutheran Church.

Do not get me started on the way women are treated in the RC Church

How? Is it because they can’t become priests? A valid reasn has been given by Pope John Paul II, like it or not.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Joe_5859]

If you become Protestant, you can join the Freemasons without worrying about being in a grave state of sin.

You also wouldn’t have to fast today and you could eat a cheesburger (depending upon which denomination you decide to go with, or course).

 

[iamrefreshed]

You also wouldn’t have to fast today and you could eat a cheesburger (depending upon which denomination you decide to go with, or course).

Hmmm. Jesus or a cheeseburger.

I’m thrilled to fast!

 

[Joe_5859]

Hmmm. Jesus or a cheeseburger.

I’m thrilled to fast!

Well, when you put it that way…

 

[PassingThru]

Hmmm. Jesus or a cheeseburger.

I’m thrilled to fast!

You forget, we are Protestants. Its like McDonalds. We get Jesus and a cheeseburger.

 

[Madaglan]

You forget, we are Protestants. Its like McDonalds. We get Jesus and a cheeseburger.

and cardiac arrest?

 

[Bengoshi]

iamrefreshed;6301377:

Thanks for all the replies. So by becoming Protestant I gain nothing? By staying Catholic I lose nothing?

QUOTE]

If you become Protestant, you can join the Freemasons without worrying about being in a grave state of sin.

Not all Protestants would recommend joining the Freemasons due to their unbiblical teachings and influences. It is a mix of various religious beliefs. It’s basically due tothe same reasons that the RCC condemns joining the FM.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I understand and appreciate the sentiment, but I’d caution against painting it so simplistically. I can imagine a Protestant quipping back that a Catholic converting to Protestantism would be able to start reading Scripture. One might also retort that those things they ask you to stop are not spiritually enriching but rather spiritually damaging.

Generally speaking, people don’t like being referred to in the negative sense (i.e., by what they don’t like). An atheist might turn around and post that Catholics want you to STOP doing things that are so much fun.

• Stop having sex.
• Stop drinking and partying.
• Stop useful business practices that earn you extra money.

So why would anyone want to stop being an atheist in favor of Catholicism?

It’s great to be excited about being Catholic and the spiritual riches of the Catholic faith. But I don’t think looking at it in this way is going to win any new converts.

You do not have to stop drinking to be a good Cathloic you must not get drank and you do not have to stop having sex if you are married just keep your sex with your wife and no one else

 

[CMatt25]

the Pope is the biggest obstacle to Christian Unity-people must remember that Apostolic Succession and the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome have been used as Political tools for centuries-a good example is Pope Leo deciding that the orders of the Episcopal Church were not valid based on some interpretation of “the form” of orders-this was Politics-yet “Old Catholic” orders are valid and they use the same “form” as the episcopals and are not in communion with Rome

in the early Church and up to the 19th century the Pope was not “infallible” when speaking on Faith and Morals but it came in a flash when it suited Pope Leo

The Orthodox Churches are accepted as valid by the Roman Catholics yet they surely do not believe in the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome-

“First among equals” would solve much of Christian Unity issues-in reality the Curia does not want to change anything and that is fine but they should stop giving lip service to ecumenism and say these are our rules and that is it-the Pope decides big issues (and do not pretend that the “Councils” decide just look at the recommendations of the Vatican Council working group on Birth Control and how it was rejected by the Pope) -period no discussion and was obeyed by the Clergy

The Roman Catholic Church at least says no -look at the mess the Episcopal and Lutheran Churches are in by not saying no

Do not get me started on the way women are treated in the RC Church

Lip service might be a good way to put it. When people can’t even bring themselves to speak the word “church” in reference to our protestant brothers and sisters and instead feel the need to say “sects” or “communities” we have a problem.