Converting from New Mass to Latin Mass?

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Hi Brian,

First is oh my goodness, the comparisons are hardly there. How could the Novus Ordo have been derived from this mass. Second, you’ll go through the-Ive been robbed of so much growing up in my Catholic faith. about how beautiful it really is. The Holy Spirit seems to give you some graces through this also. Quenching your thirst with so much of His love. Third-when you go back to the Novus Ordo, and you will because you’ll have to see again if it was really as bad as you remembered it, and you will want to weep for lack of beauty and worship for Christ. right now im in the fourth stage- where you get struck dumb by people not seeing what you see. things that will become so obviously wrong (example: dress, altar girls, etc) because a bishop said its all right wont make it all right for you and for you love of Christ. .
I do not know whether these are ‘documented’ stages, but I have to agree that one does go through a kind of transformational experience when discovering the rich tradition of the Latin Mass. I suppose that I am moving through stage 2 right now. I have been attending the Latin mass since August 2008. I will be married according to the traditional Latin mass in a few weeks. I am very excited about this because it will be an opportunity for some of my family to experience the Latin mass, in some cases, for the first time. For my parent’s generation, it will be an opportunity to remember the true beauty of the mass.

I wish you well on your journey of discovery!

PetersBride
 
that “new age music” is one reason I no longer can tolerate my local parish - long haired kids singing rock music for mass :eek:.

That and the protestant Our Father - holding hands and standing for responsorials.

There is an SSPX in the next town and I still have my 1962 missal.👍
 
Hi!
This is my first time responding to you page.
I appreciate all the info.
I would like to say that I did in my youth enjoy the Latin Ritual. However This is a new time and era.
I would think that our Lord would be pleased with the language change, and the improvement stemming from Vatican 2.
We have to move with today’s society, or we run the fwear of being left behind. This new liturgy does not lead us to neglect our basis principals.
Thanks
Bill Moschuk
 
Hey, I hope you all find yourselves well!

Why does there seem to be so much contention between people on the “old mass” and the “new mass”?

From my point of view, what is vitally and of first importance is if the bread and wine become Christ and I am able to partake. Everything else, while VERY important, pales in comparison to that.
It seems that both forms of the Mass have strengths and weaknesses. The “Old Mass” has been around for a very long time, it is more ‘universal’ that the “new mass” because it is in Latin, and so it gives you another way in which to feel closer to those around the world and throughout time. Plus, everything in Latin is cool;).
The “New Mass” in in the vernacular, so everyone that speaks that language can understand it (which is also important, especially to those that have never set foot inside a Catholic Church like I used to be). It still retains the universal feeling (afterall, the Sacrifice of the Mass connects us all). It frees up better the Bishops to their particular circumstances.
I can understand preferences, such as I prefer not to recieve from EM and only from ordained ministers, and I also prefer to recieve on the tounge (although I do not think that it is any more respectful than recieving it in the hand. No matter how I recieve, I will never be worthy enough to be in the presence, much less recieve, Christ). I also prefer to say Amen after recieving and I prefer to stand while recieving it. I also like to take the wine as well as the bread, though I understand there is no need. So, again, I understand preferences. I just can understand, however, why some people (I haven’t seen any on this particular thread) get so angry about the debate to the point of becoming angry and losing their patience. The Church has the authority to make the changes that are seen in the “New Mass”, just as it had the authority to make the changes to the “Old Mass” from what it was before (for example, many communities would recieve bread and wine, which were Christ, and also recieve milk mixed with honey to represent the new Promised Land that is Heaven. Also, the official language of the mass would have originally been in the vernacular, and then changed to the Mass). The Mass, like the Church, are at their core the same as they have always been. The Mass has always had the Eucharist at its center, and this has not changed and will never change. But the Church does have the authority to make some changes to the Mass.
Again, I have not read anyone’s post on this thread that has been angry or hostle, which is why I am asking you guys because I think (hope, and pray) that you will give me an honest, and loving, answer if you know anyone who does get angry over the issue, and why they get angry.

Thank you all!
 
Hello everyone,

I just wanted to mention a few points.

What is NOT the purpose of the Mass?

The Mass is not a concert, where we showcase the latest human achievements in music, visual arts, dance, performance, textiles, dramatic reading, choreography.
The Mass is not a classroom, where we study the writings of great minds or examine the development of theories.
The Mass is not a dinner party, where we exchange pleasantries over a meal.
The Mass is not entertainment, distraction, or occupation.

The Mass is the opening of the doorway between Heaven and Earth, the porta cæli, the hand of God reaching down to us from heaven and lifting us up towards him.

The Mass is the Church standing at the foot of the Cross with Mary and John, our mother and our brother.
The Mass is where we are washed in the blood of the lamb, and made white as purest snow.
The Mass is for prayer, and everything in it must be in absolute harmony with this. All of the things listed above are not the purpose of the Mass, but their purpose is to join our hearts to that of Christ in perfect prayer.

Christ’s heart is a mystery, Christ’s sacrifice and our salvation are mysteries. We encounter them in the Mass. All the rubrics, vestments, music, art, movements are there to take us above ourselves and towards Christ’s Mystery.

By definition, mysteries are things we cannot immediately understand. Does this mean we should give up on them, not bother, pay no attention or lose interest? Absolutely not. It is precisely because we can’t fully understand that we must pay more attention.

The trend of modern worship is the opposite of this. The idea that understanding is pivotal reduces the Mass from an encounter with mystery to a mere classroom. The focus on a “communal meal” over a “propitiatory sacrifice” robs us of the awareness of Christ’s superabundant grace, instead distracting us with the idea of a simple dinner party. The insistence that music, art, vestments, movements “resound with the people” does violence to them, because instead of being lifted up to something better they are left with the mere human achievements of secular “arts”. Instead of being pulled up to Heaven, away from and above ourselves towards the timeless wonder of heaven, we are swindled into focussing on how wonderful our own generation is, how lovely our talents in music, in drama, in textiles and architecture, how distinctive our own taste from those of our ancestors. Instead of joining the eternal song of the angels for an hour or two at mass, we introduce a song of our own, a discord.

We give our very best to God, because he gave His Very Best for us. The very best is not that which was written in three weeks for a drums and guitar band, in a style that has only been popular for one and a half generations. The very best is that which has required the entirety of the human race, throughout all human history, to create.

That’s Tradition. It’s something we have built up over thousands of years, each successive generation pruning just a little, adding a taste of themselves, without ever usurping the entirety and crafting something wholly their own. This is what we give to God, the very best that He Himself gave to us.
 
Hello everyone,

I just wanted to mention a few points.

What is NOT the purpose of the Mass?

The Mass is not a concert, where we showcase the latest human achievements in music, visual arts, dance, performance, textiles, dramatic reading, choreography.
The Mass is not a classroom, where we study the writings of great minds or examine the development of theories.
The Mass is not a dinner party, where we exchange pleasantries over a meal.
The Mass is not entertainment, distraction, or occupation.

The Mass is the opening of the doorway between Heaven and Earth, the porta cæli, the hand of God reaching down to us from heaven and lifting us up towards him.

The Mass is the Church standing at the foot of the Cross with Mary and John, our mother and our brother.
The Mass is where we are washed in the blood of the lamb, and made white as purest snow.
The Mass is for prayer, and everything in it must be in absolute harmony with this. All of the things listed above are not the purpose of the Mass, but their purpose is to join our hearts to that of Christ in perfect prayer.

Christ’s heart is a mystery, Christ’s sacrifice and our salvation are mysteries. We encounter them in the Mass. All the rubrics, vestments, music, art, movements are there to take us above ourselves and towards Christ’s Mystery.

By definition, mysteries are things we cannot immediately understand. Does this mean we should give up on them, not bother, pay no attention or lose interest? Absolutely not. It is precisely because we can’t fully understand that we must pay more attention.

The trend of modern worship is the opposite of this. The idea that understanding is pivotal reduces the Mass from an encounter with mystery to a mere classroom. The focus on a “communal meal” over a “propitiatory sacrifice” robs us of the awareness of Christ’s superabundant grace, instead distracting us with the idea of a simple dinner party. The insistence that music, art, vestments, movements “resound with the people” does violence to them, because instead of being lifted up to something better they are left with the mere human achievements of secular “arts”. Instead of being pulled up to Heaven, away from and above ourselves towards the timeless wonder of heaven, we are swindled into focussing on how wonderful our own generation is, how lovely our talents in music, in drama, in textiles and architecture, how distinctive our own taste from those of our ancestors. Instead of joining the eternal song of the angels for an hour or two at mass, we introduce a song of our own, a discord.

We give our very best to God, because he gave His Very Best for us. The very best is not that which was written in three weeks for a drums and guitar band, in a style that has only been popular for one and a half generations. The very best is that which has required the entirety of the human race, throughout all human history, to create.

That’s Tradition. It’s something we have built up over thousands of years, each successive generation pruning just a little, adding a taste of themselves, without ever usurping the entirety and crafting something wholly their own. This is what we give to God, the very best that He Himself gave to us.
Well said.

And thank you Papa for freeing the Gregorian Rite of indult ! Deo Gratias !
 
Hey, I hope you all find yourselves well!

Why does there seem to be so much contention between people on the “old mass” and the “new mass”?

From my point of view, what is vitally and of first importance is if the bread and wine become Christ and I am able to partake. Everything else, while VERY important, pales in comparison to that.
It seems that both forms of the Mass have strengths and weaknesses. The “Old Mass” has been around for a very long time, it is more ‘universal’ that the “new mass” because it is in Latin, and so it gives you another way in which to feel closer to those around the world and throughout time. Plus, everything in Latin is cool;).
The “New Mass” in in the vernacular, so everyone that speaks that language can understand it (which is also important, especially to those that have never set foot inside a Catholic Church like I used to be). It still retains the universal feeling (afterall, the Sacrifice of the Mass connects us all). It frees up better the Bishops to their particular circumstances.
I can understand preferences, such as I prefer not to recieve from EM and only from ordained ministers, and I also prefer to recieve on the tounge (although I do not think that it is any more respectful than recieving it in the hand. No matter how I recieve, I will never be worthy enough to be in the presence, much less recieve, Christ). I also prefer to say Amen after recieving and I prefer to stand while recieving it. I also like to take the wine as well as the bread, though I understand there is no need. So, again, I understand preferences. I just can understand, however, why some people (I haven’t seen any on this particular thread) get so angry about the debate to the point of becoming angry and losing their patience. The Church has the authority to make the changes that are seen in the “New Mass”, just as it had the authority to make the changes to the “Old Mass” from what it was before (for example, many communities would recieve bread and wine, which were Christ, and also recieve milk mixed with honey to represent the new Promised Land that is Heaven. Also, the official language of the mass would have originally been in the vernacular, and then changed to the Mass). The Mass, like the Church, are at their core the same as they have always been. The Mass has always had the Eucharist at its center, and this has not changed and will never change. But the Church does have the authority to make some changes to the Mass.
Again, I have not read anyone’s post on this thread that has been angry or hostle, which is why I am asking you guys because I think (hope, and pray) that you will give me an honest, and loving, answer if you know anyone who does get angry over the issue, and why they get angry.

Thank you all!
I’d recommend that, instead of hijacking the thread, you post a new thread in the Trad Cath forum?
 
Hello Michael,

Yes that modern Christian music is very popular nowadays. I was blessed with a boy late in life, and he is now a 19 year old University student. He is also a member of one of those protestant mega churches with two large HD Screens and a rock band up on the stage between the two Screens. The college group that he belongs to travels all over Northern California to play that crazy music in churches. They are actually making a lot of money at it, and now they are going on a tour up to Washington State. He helps me download Gregorian Chants from the Internet into my MP3 player, but he isn’t the least bit interested in anything that is Catholic. I guess you can understand modern music better than I can, but I can’t find Jesus in all that noise. Can’t pray either, or hear myself think.

Richard
Richard:

I find a lot of what passes for “music” in our Modern Liturgies to be NOISE (& “Man-Centered” instead of “God Centered”) - That’s why I went to a traditionally minded church (the ACC-TAC) when I came back after 20+ years, and why I’ve been attending the local Maronite Divine Liturgy for most of the last 3 months.

Here’s an artist whose music you might find you can worship to… You might even want to introduce you son to him if he doesn’t know about him already. You’ll find Keith Green to be nothing like the NOISE we both referred to…

Keith Green - Your Love broke through
youtube.com/watch?v=h89-3_kIRDA
Keith Green - O Lord, You’re beautiful
youtube.com/watch?v=JQ3lvN4tQmY&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=Fh4ac4znuRk&feature=related
Keith Green - When I hear the Praises start (live)
youtube.com/watch?v=fIgVU_5FsqA&feature=related

The first time I heard, “When I hear the Praises start,” I was going through some trails and tribulations, and I did what I did just now as I listened to it for you now. These last 2 are going to be more CHILLING:

%between%Keith Green - The Sheep and The Goats (live)
youtube.com/watch?v=Ix8ddosjg-k&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=D62TAYPBw04
Keith Green - Asleep in The Light (live)
youtube.com/watch?v=XL3vnQSr7eA&feature=related

I still remember the World Vision International Benefit Concert in 1979 . When Keith Green Screamed, “…And I rotted there!” my spine just corkscrewed.

Keith Green died in an airplane accident on July 28, 1982 at the age of 29 and went to be with his, and our Lord.

Here is something he wrote that may be applicable for all of us who place musicians, priests and other men of God on pedestals…
lastdaysministries.org/Group/Group.aspx?id=1000008644

I hope this gives you and your son something to talk about that you might end up having in common.

Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael

Pet Peeve Alert :banghead:: I also HATE the way they change the words on hymns, both classic and modern, in the “Catholic” hymnals included in the Missalettes… :bigyikes:
 
Hey, I hope you all find yourselves well!

Again, I have not read anyone’s post on this thread that has been angry or hostle, which is why I am asking you guys because I think (hope, and pray) that you will give me an honest, and loving, answer if you know anyone who does get angry over the issue, and why they get angry.

Thank you all!
bmadamsberry:

You said that you haven’t read anyone’s thread that was “angry or hostile”. How did you judge that? How did you judge if your brothers were angry or hostile? or, Did your limit your judgment to your brothers’ posts?..

The posting guidelines say to read as many posts as you can read before responding TO A POST or an OBVIOUS THOUGHT in that particular thread. They guidelines are there so we can show respect & consideration to our brothers & sisters and not just interrupt their conversations as you did (& as most of us have done in the past).

If you really feel strongly about what you tried to say, you really should put together a FIRST POST and start a thread. You might even want to P/M a couple of us to see if we have ideas for a POLL.

That’s a LOT BETTER that starting out by telling your Brothers & Sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ that you think they’re hostile. Don’t you agree?

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
I’ve read all of the posts here, I do keep up with them on a regular basis, my perspective and original concept being, I personally want to draw closer to tradition, that’s all. Please, don’t turn this into a debate of one being better then the other, it’s just something I felt called to do of sorts and within my own personal walk with God that is what it’s all about.
 
I apologize to anyone who took offense to me asking a question in the middle of a thread.
The reason that I put it in the thread was because, yes, I thought that the posters were kind in how they were posting, seemed to be a plurality in their love of the Triditine Mass (as so more knowledgable).
I’ve never been repremanded for judging that someone was not angry or hostle, but either way sorry. I was not hijacking the thread, and was still on topic (dealing with people converting from the new mass to the old mass). I guess I was wrong, I’m sorry.
I don’t understand how someone can not help but “interupt” a conversation on a thread. Some of you are talking about music, others are strictly replying to the original poster’s question. And, to be honest, that’s perfectly fine. The posters that are talking about music are still talking in their post about converting from the New Mass to the Latin Mass (they have not delved away from the subject, and have only continued in a different line then others, which is no problem whatsoever). I have read all the posts on this thread, and I thought that I might continue with the conversation and take part in it. But if I didn’t do that, I’m sorry.
Thank you, and again I am sorry for anyone that I made angry.
 
I reckon it’s possible people read your post a bit quickly, and took it to mean … the opposite of what it actually did.

In any case, the OP is still here, which means we should concentrate on answering any further questions (or continuing to answer the original one, if we haven’t already).
 
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