Converting to Another Faith

[Anna_Scott]

Hi Anna,

I apologize to you for the late response; I have been working on catching up on Catholic doctrine, catechism, dogma, bull etc and have too many threads at one time, rookie error I’m sure.

I was baptized as an infant and my mother grew up in the Catholic church as well as her mother, but at the age of 4-5 we moved and my mother, mostly because of my dad, was separated from the Catholic church, so I was only part of that for 4-5 years. I do not consider myself as Catholic nor Protestant, but Christian as I was purchased by Jesus on the cross and I accepted His free Gift by realizing there was nothing in me I could possible offer to God that would merit any kind of His forgiveness. I believed I was a “good” person, and compared to other people, I probably was. I always believed in God and even Jesus as God and even the holy Spirit. I always thought I would be in heaven on my terms because I was a good person and recognized God. Wow, big deal this won’t save you. Once my wife and I had children I began to realize that we needed to start going to church and a neighbor invited us to a church and we went for a while, but the travel was to far. But I began to read and read the Scripture, my mother had given me a study Bible ten years earlier, and it was never touched, same with my wife. I began to understand that I was not right with God and my soul, my wife’s soul were in jeopardy.

Then I came across some solid evangelical preachers over the TV and the internet and really realized I was a sinner who has trampled over the cross with my sin and I began to ball like a big baby and told the Lord that I now know there is nothing in me that is worthy of your love or holiness and cried out for forgiveness. The Lord hearing my cries and my recognition in sincerity began to change my life forever. My wife had the same type of experience and together we have been walking together in His love. Our children are still young and I thank God that we, as parents, have the opportunity to teach our children and have the opportunity to give them back to the Lord as He graciously gave them to us.

What is interesting is this is exactly what is happening between God the Father and Jesus the Son. The Father has given the Son a bunch of humanity for Himself and when it is all completed and all the redeemed will then be presented to the Father as a gift of Love back to the Father.

The family when it is working as best as humanly possible is a picture of love that is a shadow of the love shared within the Trinity and we are His children and will be praising and thanking Him for eternity for our adoptions into His household because we are joint heirs with Christ Jesus and we will all be one as Jesus is one with the Father and the Spirit, we to shall be part of that Holy communion. Just a beautiful display of the love God has toward His children and it is nothing we have done to deserve it, we just have to let go of self and accept the Gift in humility.

I’m done rambling. God bless

MacDaddy,

This is a beautiful testimony of your faith.

I am a Christian. I just haven’t found my place within Christianity.

Anna

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Believe it or not, some do. They reject God and worship Satan, thinking that he can give them all they desire. There are a lot of Satanists in today’s society, especially among the young.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Its one thing to be a Satanist and worship Satan. Interestingly enough not all Satanist worship the devil only Satanic Theist due. At an rate, it is an entirely different thing to follow a different religion, People dont reject or openly acknowledge Christ as their lord and saviour because they are indifferent to the afterlife or that they want to worship Satan. It could be that they were just raised in a different religious setting.

 

[hesco]

We are all Catholics, some people chose not to accept it.

 

[Monte1945]

This is nothing new.
Apostolic Christianity demands exclusive devotion to the one God, not even admitting the existence of any other.

Yes, of course but… there has always been nations throughout the history
of the world which have felt the call of God but did not have the name of God
as they were not familiar with the Jewish history of the Old Testement.

When St. Paul went to that one place in Acts 17:22-24 to preach he passed
along a whole line of idols and one of them didn’t have a name… it was erected
to represent any other god which the people didn’t know… Sort of attempting
to cover all bases. the sign on it was called “The Unknown God”…

Paul used that in his sermon to them… and said that God was the Jewish God
they just didn’t know of him by name… It kind of sugguests that the true
God can come through other means and names to different people…
They might not know that it is the christian God but it is still can be God
to them…

 

[MacDaddy]

MacDaddy,

This is a beautiful testimony of your faith.

I am a Christian. I just haven’t found my place within Christianity.

Anna

Are you in the process of seeking a church? If so I may be able to help by pointing to to some alumni of trusted seminaries and other resources via internet to help you determine a Christ centered church verses one that men are building.

Blessings and send me a PM if you need resources.

MacD

 

[MacDaddy]

We are all Catholics, some people chose not to accept it.

There is a way to increase membership; just make a declaration.

 

[Teneas]

We are all Catholics, some people chose not to accept it.

 

[Teneas]

There is a way to increase membership; just make a declaration.

It is honestly meant as a term of endearment, and always received with little more than disdain.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Are you in the process of seeking a church? If so I may be able to help by pointing to to some alumni of trusted seminaries and other resources via internet to help you determine a Christ centered church verses one that men are building.

Blessings and send me a PM if you need resources.

MacD

MacDaddy,

You are welcome to post them. I am reading a number of resources.

I was brought up in the Baptist Church, except for a brief and and disturbing, membership in the Mormon Church (more than 10 years ago.) I continue to study and pray.

After what I have been through, I am not easily persuaded in any direction.

Anna

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Yes, of course but… there has always been nations throughout the history
of the world which have felt the call of God but did not have the name of God
as they were not familiar with the Jewish history of the Old Testement.

When St. Paul went to that one place in Acts 17:22-24 to preach he passed
along a whole line of idols and one of them didn’t have a name… it was erected
to represent any other god which the people didn’t know… Sort of attempting
to cover all bases. the sign on it was called “The Unknown God”…

Paul used that in his sermon to them… and said that God was the Jewish God
they just didn’t know of him by name… It kind of sugguests that the true
God can come through other means and names to different people…
They might not know that it is the christian God but it is still can be God
to them…

You should probably read the that passage more carefully, along with what came before and after it. You should also understand that the “unknown god” was not one god that the Greeks worshiped - it was actually a “backup” god that was worshiped along with the 12 other gods of popular Greek mythology. It was one god in the midst polytheism, not a god of monotheism.

For one, Paul is alarmed by what he finds, not tolerant, so much so that he finds himself provoked in the spirit (Acts 17:16). Furthermore, he tells the Greeks “What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you,” (Acts 17:23) announcing that he is proclaiming to them who this “unknown god” is, similar to how he told the Jews earlier “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ” (Acts 17:3). The context is the same - he is announcing the true God and Savior to the people.

Furthermore, if you read afterward, Paul tells the Athenians that, “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30). The times of ignorance are over - God has made Himself known to all. Paul is telling the Athenians, “Guess what? That unknown god…I come from Him. And He wants you to worship Him and Him alone.” He is not suggesting universalism or “getting it close is good enough.”

I touched on this passage in more detail on my blog here.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

When a Christian converts to another faith, such a Islam, Judaism, etc., in effect he/she is rejecting Christ. In your opinion, is salvation still possible for that person, or has that person condemned him/her self to hell, or…?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I think the only one who could possibly know the state of the person’s soul is God Himself. It really depends on whether the person believes they are turning their back on God, or whether they truly believe what they are doing is God’s will.

Peace,
Robert

 

[Javl]

Its one thing to be a Satanist and worship Satan. Interestingly enough not all Satanist worship the devil only Satanic Theist due. At an rate, it is an entirely different thing to follow a different religion, People dont reject or openly acknowledge Christ as their lord and saviour because they are indifferent to the afterlife or that they want to worship Satan. It could be that they were just raised in a different religious setting.

What you say may be true, but keep in mind that although one may have had a good religious upbringing and/or background, there are still those that turn away looking for the earthly pleasures that are “promised” by the devil. Selling one’s soul to the devil is not fiction but actuality.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Anna_Scott]

You should probably read the that passage more carefully, along with what came before and after it. You should also understand that the “unknown god” was not one god that the Greeks worshiped - it was actually a “backup” god that was worshiped along with the 12 other gods of popular Greek mythology. It was one god in the midst polytheism, not a god of monotheism.

For one, Paul is alarmed by what he finds, not tolerant, so much so that he finds himself provoked in the spirit (Acts 17:16). Furthermore, he tells the Greeks “What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you,” (Acts 17:23) announcing that he is proclaiming to them who this “unknown god” is, similar to how he told the Jews earlier “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ” (Acts 17:3). The context is the same - he is announcing the true God and Savior to the people.

Furthermore, if you read afterward, Paul tells the Athenians that, “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30). The times of ignorance are over - God has made Himself known to all. Paul is telling the Athenians, “Guess what? That unknown god…I come from Him. And He wants you to worship Him and Him alone.” He is not suggesting universalism or “getting it close is good enough.”

I touched on this passage in more detail on my blog here.

Excellent point, here, Mr. Wolf.

I don’t think “getting it close” is good enough. I don’t see how one can serve God, without knowing God and His Word Incarnate.

I know this idea of covering all bases still exists. My son spent a summer internship in India in 2008. He told me about his Hindu friends, who attempted to honor all gods, to avoid offense to any. Ironically, honoring all gods is offensive to the one true God.

Anna

 

[Javl]

Excellent point, here, Mr. Wolf.

I don’t think “getting it close” is good enough. I don’t see how one can serve God, without knowing God and His Word Incarnate.

I know this idea of covering all bases still exists. My son spent a summer internship in India in 2008. He told me about his Hindu friends, who attempted to honor all gods, to avoid offense to any. Ironically, honoring all gods is offensive to the one true God.

Anna

I agree with you totally, Anna. Honoring , or even venerating any “god” is totaly offensive to the One True God.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[uglygal]

uglygal:

I meant to add that no one has the right to say that you are going to hell. You can go only by your own wish or desire. God alone is the one who determines where you will spend eternity.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Not true. I am going to hell because there is no salvation outside of the church - I am no longer a part of church and I am not invincibly ignorant of its teachings.

 

[Javl]

Not true. I am going to hell because there is no salvation outside of the church - I am no longer a part of church and I am not invincibly ignorant of its teachings.

You will NOT go to hell unless you wish it. God is not that cruel. Although the Church once adamently taught that outside of the Church there is no salvation, it has modified its stance. There are many who are no longer, or not, part of the Catholic Church, but they are still Christians and believe in Jesus Christ, as I hope you still do. He alone, who is the Judge, will determine who will go where. So Cheer up and keep believing, no matter what anyone says, they are not your judge. Remember what has been said " judge not unless you be judged". Meanwhile, God Bless and enjoy the coming year.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Monte1945]

RomanCath,

Would you say your belief that “Christ gives us one more chance at the time of death,” is based on your own private interpretation?
If not, could you identify the source of this belief? I’m not taking sides on the issue. I’m just trying to understand why there are different views among Catholics on this particular issue.
Anna

The first thought which comes to my mind would be the ideal example
of Bro. Dismas… (the thief on the cross beside Jesus)

He was promised Paradise after having not lived a christian life just moments
prior to his body death.

 

[Justin_Mee]

That paragraph has NOTHING to do with what I said. I personally believe, that Christ, because of his unending mercy, gives us one more chance at the moment of death. I don’t care what the Catechism says about that. There have been recorded evidence when for example, an atheist died and at that last moment, he is actually dead, he calls out the name of JESUS. He is given another chance on earth and comes back to become a Catholic priest. THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED!

The key phrase here is “I personally believe.” I don’t think I will put this to the ultimate test.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Emphasis is mine:

That paragraph has NOTHING to do with what I said. I personally believe, that Christ, because of his unending mercy, gives us one more chance at the moment of death. I don’t care what the Catechism says about that. There have been recorded evidence when for example, **an atheist died and at that last moment, he is actually dead, he calls out the name of JESUS. He is given another chance on earth and comes back to become a Catholic priest. ** THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED!

Well Ms. Scott, this particular person was dead. No heartbeat (and since you were a nurse, you’d know what that meant), no pulse, he saw everything the doctor was doing to revive him. He said the name of Jesus, was told to go back, and became a Catholic priest. As an atheist, he saw or felt something from God. My opinion and my opinion only, with some common sense here, makes me feel that a second chance was added here…no?

RomanCath,

I am not questioning the experience this man had with Christ, or even whether or not he had an “out of body” experience. I am questioning whether or not he actually “came back from the dead.” I had a friend who claimed she had an “out of body” experience while under anesthesia. I can’t say if she did or did not-but her claim was not tied to a medical emergency.

I don’t think you can compare an experience of someone who was revived, with those who actually die, and cannot be revived. I have successfully resuscitated patients, myself–who did regain a pulse and did start breathing again. I would not say I resurrected them from the dead. There is often a window of opportunity to resuscitate a person, which means death is often a process. It is not always instantaneous.

If this man came back from the dead, that would mean he was resurrected. Would it not? How many resurrections is a person allowed? Is every person who is resuscitated and revived, resurrected from the dead? If so, then there are many people among us who have been “resurrected”–and some “resurrected” more than one.

There is a difference between being revived after the heart and respirations stop, and being resurrected from the dead.

BTW, you still have not provided Scripture to support your claims.

Anna

RomanCath379,

Again, with the insults, and tactics of avoidance.

You still are not answering questions or providing Scripture to support your claims. You did say your beliefs come from Scripture. Please quote the Scripture.

Even in your statement above, you are saying Catholics believe in Sacred Tradition and do not go by the Bible alone. So, where is the Sacred Tradition to support your claims?

Granted I am not Catholic. I am a Christian in the Protestant Sector. I have read post after post from Catholics pointing out the problems with “private interpretation.” I agree, private interpretation in the Protestant sector causes many problems, and leads many into error.

So, what am I to think of claims that you cannot support with Scripture/Catechism/Apostolic Tradition? Aren’t you making claims based on “private interpretation”?

And yes, we are way off topic. Javl has been very patient to allow us to continue this discussion on a Thread about “Converting to Another Faith.”

Anna

Sorry, but I refuse to get caught up with a disenchanted Protestant, as you put it…

The first thought which comes to my mind would be the ideal example
of Bro. Dismas… (the thief on the cross beside Jesus)

He was promised Paradise after having not lived a christian life just moments
prior to his body death.

Hi Monte1945,

I appreciate your comment, and the thief on the cross does demonstrate salvation just prior to death.

RomanCath379 wrote about a man, he claims was given a second chance and came back from the dead. So, the question moved from whether or not we get a second chance at the moment of death, to whether or not we get a second chance after death.

I do welcome any comments you have on this.

Thanks,
Anna

 

[Javl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomanCath379
Sorry, but I refuse to get caught up with a disenchanted Protestant, as you put it.

I am quite surprised that, as a Catholic, you would answer in such a manner. We are here to discuss our beliefs and teach and learn from each other.

A simple question was asked that deserves an honest answer. I would also recommend an apology for such a crass response to Ms Scott.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem