Coronavirus and the Sacraments...but, but, but

[ProfessorF]

Newbie here so patience and grace.
As we all know, we are no longer doing “passing of the peace,” only partaking in the consecrated wafer and not having Holy Water available at Church.

I understand about passing the peace, but have questions about the other “restrictions” (not sure this is the correct term, but you get my drift). If the priest represents Christ and we believe the consecrated host is the body of Christ then wouldn’t it follow that it would be coronavirus free? And if we believe that the consecrated wine is the blood of Christ, wouldn’t that also be coronavirus free?

Further, if we believe our early Church history (and the Bible) that people were healed by Jesus simply by touching Him and if people were healed by the disciple’s shadows and “belongings,” how can we deny the healing/cleansing power of Christ’s body and blood? If we “talk the talk” shouldn’t “we walk the walk”?

 

[Kaliaa]

Anything that was on the host or in the wine prior to the consecration is still there afterwards in/on the accidents. They are not sterile. Therefore it’s not virus free, bacteria free, mold free or any other thing free. Additionally you have the problem of how many different people’s lips and saliva have been on the chalice itself. That is why various dioceses have been taking precautions regarding reception of the Eucharist by the faithful.

In my diocese we routinely do not have the Precious Blood nor do the sign of peace during the flu season. We were already well into that time before the Corona virus outbreak began in the US.

 

[TK421]

@ProfessorF

Catholics respect and obey their bishops, who are the successors of the apostles. Also, using the power of God as a license for imprudence is not okay:

Matthew 4: 5-7
Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’

God has the power to miraculously cure a sickness but that is according to his will and not ours. Each person has a day and an hour when it is time to meet God. Peace.

 

[po18guy]

It is not the Holy Eucharist- as any priest will tell you: “It’s those parishioners!”

However, since Catholicism is a hands-on faith, there are undoubtedly some priests who are infected.

I think it helpful, despite our love of the Lord, to recall that we need only receive the Holy Eucharist a single time yearly, and then, during the Easter season. That is one of the 5 precepts of the Church.

As to our sense of loss,

Love waits.

 

[OddBird]

If the priest represents Christ and we believe the consecrated host is the body of Christ then wouldn’t it follow that it would be coronavirus free?

That question was asked to Bishop Centène, from the diocese of Vannes (France). Here is what he answered:

“Let’s beware fideism. Transsubstantiation changes the identity, but not the accidents. The species and appearance of the bread and wine remain, and are still submitted to nature’s law. A consecrated host left in a humid place deteriorates, placed in flames it will burn, and the Real Presence remains only as long as the sign of the bread remains. We have been given a few famous and impressive eucharistic miracles, bypassing this natural law, in order to increase our faith. But they are precisely miracles ! We cannot ask God to perform a permanent miracle simply to counter our own lack of prudence.”

Full text of his interview, in French, here : https://www.vannes.catholique.fr/qu...53Ko508N6PPAEPprvqJOjGvsV6QPr8IItrI9H9BLSqCbE

Edited because I mixed up bishops…

 

[po18guy]

In any event, the virus would be on the surface of the host as a contaminant, not contained within the host. Even if infected bakers tainted the pre-consecrated hosts, the baking would destroy the virus. It is what happens after.

 

[ProfessorF]

Thanks for your thoughtful response.
I wonder though, doesn’t the consecration of the wafer and wine make them a part of Christ, not only purifying, but healing? I don’t understand how they can give us sickness, regardless of saliva or a dedicated chalice. If we as Catholics believe that they are truly the Body and Blood of Jesus why wouldn’t they also cleanse any germs that come in contact with them.

(I hope I don’t sound argumentative or extremely dogmatic. I’m just raising a question I have.)

 

[ProfessorF]

Thank you OddBird. This is a very good answer that I’ll give some more thought to.

 

[Horton]

I think many people would be shocked at the number of people who actually have contact with the hosts prior to them ever being brought to the altar.
First - the place where they are made. I’m sure there are safe food handling precautions taken but things happen.

Second - the sacristy. Depending on who the parish orders from they are either in a plastic wide mouth bottle type thing, like the spice containers at Costco but bigger, with the hosts just loose inside. Or you have wrapped sleeves in a box which the sacristan opens as needed.

In many places you would have one to two sacristans per Mass, depending on the size of the parish this could 5 to 20 people. If your parish has the custom of moving a host from one plate to another when you come in…well even with the little tongs the hosts can be touched.

Third - The hosts are consecrated and distributed. After Mass the remaining hosts are retained in the tabernacle. Our homebound EMHC are able to go to the tabernacle to obtain a blessed sacrament to take to a homebound person. Another contact.

And this is all I can think of off the top of my head. There is probably more. I will continue to receive on the hand unless I start to feel sick, regardless of the illness, and then most like I will not attend Mass at all unless I am certain I am not contagious.

 

[po18guy]

Thanks for your thoughtful response.
I wonder though, doesn’t the consecration of the wafer and wine make them a part of Christ, not only purifying, but healing?

He is sacramentally present. It is not physically His flesh and blood, i.e. His DNA in it. Whatever is transmitted to the surface if the host can indeed make you ill. Remember what we pray: “Lord, I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof, but only say the word, and my SOUL shall be healed.”

In any event, the Bishops are our shepherds. They care for their flocks. Preventing an invisible, insidious and potentially fatal virus is certainty prudent on their parts.

I mean, they could allow their sheep to wander outside of the sheepfold, since it was very unlikely that a wolf is nearby. Is that prudent? That is gambling and may even be putting God to the test.

 

[1ke]

If the priest represents Christ and we believe the consecrated host is the body of Christ then wouldn’t it follow that it would be coronavirus free?

No. The substance changes the accidents remain.

The host isn’t a magic Coronavirus killer.

If someone touches the host that has or carries the virus, or someone comes in contact with someone with the virus then touches the host and gives it to you— the virus can certainly transfer and piggy back on the host for as long as the virus lives (which is at least 6 hours maybe more).

And if we believe that the consecrated wine is the blood of Christ, wouldn’t that also be coronavirus free?

No! And even more-so dangerous because the virus easily transmits from bodily fluids such as saliva.

Further, if we believe our early Church history (and the Bible) that people were healed by Jesus simply by touching Him and if people were healed by the disciple’s shadows and “belongings,”

Not everyone was healed by Christ or the Apostles. Miracles can occur but we should not expect them nor put God to the test.

If we “talk the talk” shouldn’t “we walk the walk”?

The Church has never taught the Eucharist is magic. And it does teach that the substance changes while the accidents remain.

The accidents do not contain antiviral or antibacterial properties.

 

[NevermoreLenore]

As to our sense of loss,

Love waits.

Thank you for this: you put words to the ache in my heart. Our diocese has cancelled all activities, Mass, and even our adoration chapel until further notice. Since, I’ve felt…something I couldn’t really identify until I read your post. I feel such loss. Also yearning, but as you said, ‘Love waits’. Thank you.

 

[po18guy]

We tend to want our Lord right now, so that we can ask Him for patience!

 

[Gorgias]

Newbie here so patience and grace.

All good.

As we all know, we are no longer doing “passing of the peace,”

In my diocese, we are continuing to offer a sign of peace, albeit one that does not include physical contact.

only partaking in the consecrated wafer

Only? ONLY?!?!? Isn’t the Eucharist more important than signs of peace and holy water?

not having Holy Water available at Church.

Ask your priest to bless a bottle of water that you bring to him, maybe?

If the priest represents Christ and we believe the consecrated host is the body of Christ then wouldn’t it follow that it would be coronavirus free? And if we believe that the consecrated wine is the blood of Christ, wouldn’t that also be coronavirus free?

No. The Eucharist isn’t “magic”, nor do Christ or the Church suggest it brings physical health. It brings grace and spiritual health!

if we believe our early Church history (and the Bible) that people were healed by Jesus simply by touching Him and if people were healed by the disciple’s shadows and “belongings,” how can we deny the healing/cleansing power of Christ’s body and blood?

Was every person who touched Jesus healed? Was every person who crossed an apostle’s shadow healed? It seems you’re asserting a standard that Scripture doesn’t assert.

I wonder though, doesn’t the consecration of the wafer and wine make them a part of Christ, not only purifying, but healing?

Interesting question, and worth exploring! Let’s recast it as follows: if a person who had a cold or flu in Palestine actually sneezed on Jesus, would the virus have died on contact with Him? I don’t know of anything in Scripture or Church teaching that suggests that this is true.

If we as Catholics believe that they are truly the Body and Blood of Jesus why wouldn’t they also cleanse any germs that come in contact with them.

Because no one – including Jesus! – ever taught that this is the case.

Third - The hosts are consecrated and distributed.

Wait! You’re forgetting about all those who might come in contact with them after the sacristan touches them and then the priest does! What about ushers? Those who bring them up during the offertory procession? Anyone who might have breathed on them in this timeframe?

 

[Gorgias]

Our diocese has cancelled all activities, Mass, and even our adoration chapel until further notice. Since, I’ve felt…something I couldn’t really identify until I read your post. I feel such loss. Also yearning

Ok – let’s look at this closely.

What is the effect of praying along with Mass on TV or live-streamed on the internet? Sure, it doesn’t fulfill the obligation to attend Sunday Mass… but that obligation has been suspended! So… what does this kind of participation actually do??? Well… it unites us to Christ and to His body, the Church! It gives us an opportunity to participate (albeit remotely) in the sacrifice of the Mass!

The only thing it doesn’t do is meet the obligation… but again, the obligation has been lifted!

So: participate in the Mass, even if remotely! Long for reception of the Eucharist, but don’t feel as if you’ve been denied the opportunity to participate in the sacrifice of the Eucharist!!!

 

[po18guy]

We are reacting like the Hebrews to early Christianity. They just could not believe that, as baptized Christians, they were no longer bound by the Mosaic Law. Thus, Acts 15.

Human nature.

 

[meltzerboy2]

The closet thing in Judaism would be kosher food, or glatt kosher, which is strictly kosher (specifics would be too much of a digression). Even kosher food does not protect against germs, which may result from whoever handles the food in its preparation, delivery, or serving.

 

[Horton]

Wait! You’re forgetting about all those who might come in contact with them after the sacristan touches them and then the priest does! What about ushers? Those who bring them up during the offertory procession? Anyone who might have breathed on them in this timeframe?

Yes these too!

 

[NevermoreLenore]

I agree with you. My sense of loss is personal and not out of worry regarding our obligation. I will miss being there, speaking with certain elderly who otherwise don’t go anywhere, and so on.

 

[annad347]

@ProfessorF, I agree with you, people use to ask me how can you take the blood of Christ in a cup that’s shared with everyone, ‘Aren’t you worried about germs?’ they’d ask, then I’d politely answer with a ‘No, why would I worry about anything given to me blessed by God?’

So, I believe as you do why would I worry about being exposed to a virus by taking in the body and blood of Christ, no matter how or who it is being giving it to me?

but those running the church are human… with limited human minds… and tend to lean towards the side of human caution.

I also believe the last thing the Catholic church would want to happen is for a sweet elderly person who does nothing but go from home to church and back, to suddenly become affected by the Corona-virus. Even if it could never be proven that the person was exposed to the virus while at church or by taking in the body and blood of Chris or by doing anything in church… the fact that the person was in church will be all anyone would talk about. IMO.

They’re being careful. I don’t think it has anything to do with the ability to “talk the talk” we should “we walk the walk”?.. because there are those of us more then willing to take in the Body and Blood of Christ, its just not being offered.

They are just simple human beings trying to do the best they can living on this planet until God returns. God willing they are doing what God wills for us right now.