Corporal mortification sin?

[DL82]

I don’t know what other people have said but I think organisations such as Opus Dei use corporal mortification. Personally I wouldn’t make myself feel pain for the sake of it as this could be a form of masochism. However, you could make sacrifices in other ways if it helps somebody else. For example:

• abstain from meat or give up a meal on Friday and give the money to charity or a friend in need.
• give up smoking or drinking too much, or pornography.
• spend money on somebody in need that you were going to spend on yourself for your own leisure. I would give up my pocket money and give it to charity sometimes.
• spend less time on looking at yourself in the mirror.
• fast within reason instead of dieting.
• get rid of vanity. Don’t wear make-up or jewellery if you’re a woman.

Just to say, the second suggestion on your list, drinking too much or pornography should be given up anyway, as they are sins (as may be smoking).

Penance and mortification should be about giving up something intrinsically good for the sake of a greater good, not giving up something that’s already a sin, we should give those things up anyway.

 

[markhiggins01]

I can’t believe the arrogance of anyone who opposes corporal mortification. If there is a practice which is as old as the faith and practices by every saint of every century it is corporal mortification.

How arrogant for some guy sitting behind a computer in a comfy room to look back or our zealous forefathers in the faith, those great devout soldiers who took to the discipline and condemn them.

Who are you? Are you St Francis, are you St Alphonsus? Are you Blessed Jacinta? Are you St Paul ?

Our Lady was pretty clear at Fatima about corporal mortifcation and there are plenty of motives for it.

I will go into the most basic, that of weakening concupiscence. It is a maxim in any book on ascetical theology that one must abstain and without legitimate goods in order to strengthen the will against choosing illicit ones. In the heat of sensual temptation coroporal mortification, whether the discipline or a cold shower is useful to subdue to passions and strengthen oneself against resisting temptation.

I don’t think mortification is ever an end in itself, it is always a means to something- to make reparation, to increase humility, to remind oneself of our mortality to achieve greater self discipline, to temper concupiscence.

 

[CrossoverManiac]

Tell that to the many saints who have found the complete opposite, that corporal and other mortification (when done appropriately under the guidance of a spiritual director) DOES strengthen their faith.

As I said, it’s just like athletes who go through punishing and painful training regimes find it strengthens their bodies.

You might want to consider the following passage from the Catechism:

2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle.68 Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes …

So it would appear that there is a whole lot more involved to holiness than just passively accepting sufferings or mortifications that are inflicted upon you, and rather we need ascesis - deliberate self-mortification. Which can be physical as well as spiritual.

So, you get your jollies telling people they must inflict pain on themselves to please God. Tis a good day to be a sadist huh?

 

[LilyM]

So, you get your jollies telling people they must inflict pain on themselves to please God. Tis a good day to be a sadist huh?

Well, if you consider all the blessed saints we’ve been discussing above to be sadists, AND all the Bishops of the world who looked at and approved the Catechism passages I’ve quoted - then I guess, yes.

Of course Our Lord also fasted for 40 days which must’ve been painful - and commanded his disciples to do liekwise (take up your cross daily means pain!).

But according to you he’s a sadist too, so I guess the saints and the Church and I are in good company in our sadism

 

[CrossoverManiac]

Well, if you consider all the blessed saints we’ve been discussing above to be sadists, AND all the Bishops of the world who looked at and approved the Catechism passages I’ve quoted - then I guess, yes.

Of course Our Lord also fasted for 40 days which must’ve been painful - and commanded his disciples to do liekwise (take up your cross daily means pain!).

But according to you he’s a sadist too, so I guess the saints and the Church and I are in good company in our sadism

Well aren’t you so much holier-than-thou to wave your finger at us filthy sinners Must be a burden to live amongst such scum . Fasting is a spiritual discipline. What some of these saints done was self-abuse. There’s a world of difference and don’t confuse the two.

 

[LilyM]

Well aren’t you so much holier-than-thou to wave your finger at us filthy sinners Must be a burden to live amongst such scum . Fasting is a spiritual discipline. What some of these saints done was self-abuse. There’s a world of difference and don’t confuse the two.

It’s also a physical discipline - Jesus went physically hungry, he didn’t just fast ‘in spirit’ with nil to negligible physical effect or anything.

Again, if I’m holier-than-thou than so are all these saints (the Church says otherwise), and so are the Bishops.

I’ve never pretended to be a great one for corporal mortification - I’m not. The only difference is that I realise great sanctity CAN be achieved by these means (as it can by poverty as well) and pray that, if it be God’s will, I too have the grace to follow that route. And I, unlike you, recognise that Christ thoroughly approved using such means to sanctity, in fact He used them Himself.

Doesn’t mean extreme mortification or extreme poverty are for everyone, doesn’t mean they’re for no-one or should be ignored either.

 

[CrossoverManiac]

It’s also a physical discipline - Jesus went physically hungry, he didn’t just fast ‘in spirit’ with nil to negligible physical effect or anything.

Strawman much. I didn’t say he fasted ‘in spirit’, I said fasting is a spiritual discipline. And how he is suppose to fast ‘in spirit’? Pretend not to eat food?!?

Again, if I’m holier-than-thou than so are all these saints

The saints, as much as I vehemently disagree such a thing, at least back their words up with action. When the last you whipped yourself with a cat of nine tails?

(the Church says otherwise),

The Church used to say it was okay to keep people as property. If you black, get off the computer and go back to picking cotton.

and so are the Bishops.

The ones that let the pedophile priest run rampant?

I’ve never pretended to be a great one for corporal mortification - I’m not.

Oh why not if it’s such a good thing.

The only difference is that I realise great sanctity CAN be achieved by these means (as it can by poverty as well)

So, those priests who whipped themselves in front of the altar of Baal to end the three and a half year drought realized great sanctity huh?

and pray that, if it be God’s will, I too have the grace to follow that route.

I’m sure He’s already answered. Go ahead and put the whip to your back.

And I, unlike you,

Lady, you don’t know anything about me.

recognise that Christ thoroughly approved using such means to sanctity, in fact He used them Himself.

Did you hear me say anything bad about fasting? No. More of your strawman argument.

Doesn’t mean extreme mortification or extreme poverty are for everyone, doesn’t mean they’re for no-one or should be ignored either.

Maybe before promoting people beating themselves and cutting themselves, you should be willing to go though it yourself.