Cotroversial Discussion: America should have made Christianity a requirement for citizenship

[jrose90]

So, what’s your take on the “religion”? Do you see it as a threat? Are you willing to watch the US be overpopulated by Muslims who DO have more children than the rest of us and who eventually, like in 30 years, be the majority in Congress. Think there’s a chance of Sharia law then? Ready to bet the farm on this?

First off, stop putting religion in quotations, it’s a childish take on sarcasm. Everyone here has grasped your dislike for the faith in question by now, so there is no reason to keep adding the quotations.
But aside from that note, I have realized that reason alone is not enough to make you any less paranoid, even if it is physically impossible for Muslims to out-populate all other faiths in the US in your span of 30 years AND take over congress. I am done with this topic. I suggest that if you are so concerned, please, write to your congressmen. Hey, write to the President. Explain your fears, irrational though they may be.
While you’re at it, I do have a question. Are you suggesting that we expel all Muslims from the United States as well as make them ineligible for citizenship? While you’re at it, will you be taking out Jews and Buddhists as well? Will you leave Mormons and Jehova’s Witnesses be, or will you make them convert to Catholicism or another type of “acceptable” form of Christianity? Fear and hatred of one religion breeds hatred and fear of all religions.

 

[rossum]

So, what’s your take on the “religion”? Do you see it as a threat? Are you willing to watch the US be overpopulated by Muslims who DO have more children than the rest of us and who eventually, like in 30 years, be the majority in Congress. Think there’s a chance of Sharia law then? Ready to bet the farm on this?

I thought there was a somewhat familiar feel to this. Then I noticed:So, what’s your take on the “religion”? Do you see it as a threat? Are you willing to watch the US be overpopulated by Catholics who DO have more children than the rest of us and who eventually, like in 30 years, be the majority in Congress. Think there’s a chance of Canon law then? Ready to bet the farm on this?
Ah yes, that is why it sounded familiar.

rossum

 

[aicirt]

First off, stop putting religion in quotations, it’s a childish take on sarcasm. Everyone here has grasped your dislike for the faith in question by now, so there is no reason to keep adding the quotations.
But aside from that note, I have realized that reason alone is not enough to make you any less paranoid, even if it is physically impossible for Muslims to out-populate all other faiths in the US in your span of 30 years AND take over congress. I am done with this topic. I suggest that if you are so concerned, please, write to your congressmen. Hey, write to the President. Explain your fears, irrational though they may be.
While you’re at it, I do have a question. Are you suggesting that we expel all Muslims from the United States as well as make them ineligible for citizenship? While you’re at it, will you be taking out Jews and Buddhists as well? Will you leave Mormons and Jehova’s Witnesses be, or will you make them convert to Catholicism or another type of “acceptable” form of Christianity? Fear and hatred of one religion breeds hatred and fear of all religions.

What reason? I asked you about your study of Islam and whether you believe it is or is not a threat. You didn’t answer.
If this was not classified as a “religion”, but as a political movement which Islam is, would you support it?
My fears are irrational? Hmmmm. How many Islamic terrorists does it take to make you aware that Muslims want to kill you?
I have no interest in making anyone convert to my religion. Islam does that. Now this is interesting that you chastize me for doing what Islam plans to do unless of course the Qu’ran has been edited.
Jews and Buddhists fear them too. Wonder why? Neither they nor Mormons or Jehova Witnesses have trained their people to be suicide bombers.

 

[aicirt]

I thought there was a somewhat familiar feel to this. Then I noticed:So, what’s your take on the “religion”? Do you see it as a threat? Are you willing to watch the US be overpopulated by Catholics who DO have more children than the rest of us and who eventually, like in 30 years, be the majority in Congress. Think there’s a chance of Canon law then? Ready to bet the farm on this?
Ah yes, that is why it sounded familiar.

rossum

Catholics didn’t destroy that 5,000 year old Buddhist nor did we kill the Buddhists on 9/11.

 

[Contarini]

Catholics didn’t destroy that 5,000 year old Buddhist nor did we kill the Buddhists on 9/11.

Catholics killed a lot of Protestants. Just saying.

(Hey–we Anglicans killed a lot of Catholics too–I would understand if Ireland banned all Anglicans from moving there!)

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Catholics killed a lot of Protestants. Just saying.

(Hey–we Anglicans killed a lot of Catholics too–I would understand if Ireland banned all Anglicans from moving there!)

I’m sorry, I personally never bought the arguement that radical Christianity is anywhere close to the threat radical Islam is, at least today.

With all the problem that radical Islam is causing, I don’t know how you could claim that, frankly.

 

[rossum]

Catholics didn’t destroy that 5,000 year old Buddhist nor did we kill the Buddhists on 9/11.

Catholics have killed Buddhists - the Portugese burned monks in Sri Lanka. Buddhists have killed Christians in Japan.

All religions have the potential for violence.

rossum

 

[aicirt]

Catholics have killed Buddhists - the Portugese burned monks in Sri Lanka. Buddhists have killed Christians in Japan.

All religions have the potential for violence.

rossum

Haven’t we behaved ourselves since 1505? Are you really worried about Catholics?

I believe there have been 2000 Buddhists killed by Muslims in Thailand since 2004.

buddhaspace.blogspot.com/2009/03/muslim-attack-on-buddhism-part-1.html

allahhasnofuture.blogspot.com/2010/01/islam-will-wipe-out-buddhism.html

 

[rossum]

Haven’t we behaved ourselves since 1505? Are you really worried about Catholics?

I believe there have been 2000 Buddhists killed by Muslims in Thailand since 2004.

buddhaspace.blogspot.com/2009/03/muslim-attack-on-buddhism-part-1.html

allahhasnofuture.blogspot.com/2010/01/islam-will-wipe-out-buddhism.html

Christians killed 7,000 Muslims in Srebrenica in 1995. Christians were killing Christians in Northern Ireland up to about 1998. Buddhists in Burma are killing non-Buddhist Karen (some of whom are Christian) now. Buddhists and Hindus were killing each other in Sri Lanka until recently. This is not just a problem of the past.

rossum

 

[RonTheNewJew]

Right now, it is true that we have freedom of religion. But I’m not sure that freedom of religion is the inalienable right the (flawed) founding fathers thought it was. Israel is essentially a Jewish state; you know that even if Muslims enter the country, they won’t end up controlling it. Is Israel evil for making Judaism essentially a requirement for citizenship?

Israel is peopled by ethnic Jews whose founding fathers were all, or had through suffering and persecution become, Torah-observant (some Talmudic to some degree, and Mishna) Jews when they arrived in Palestine from Europe and Russia, and other places. They have always allowed the Islamic people to observe their beliefs and practices since they were already living in Palestine. Christians are also allowed complete freedom of religious expression in Israel. The only exception (one I disagree with) is that Christians or others are not allowed to hold large, outdoor evangelistic meetings. Conversion of non-Christian Jews to Christianity on a person-to-person basis is allowed.

As far as whether the founding fathers, whom God, I believe, used, gave us the Constitution with it’s First Amendment, were “flawed” or not, as long as Americans are vigilant in their defense of freedom of religion and religious expression, need not fear being told how to express their own religious beliefs and practices.

To require anyone to believe anything other than the dictates of their own consciences in matters of religion, is against the very tenets of what Christ and His apostles taught. Freedom of conscience in religious matters allows people, such as this American citizen, to read, listen to others, believe some or all, or nothing if I so choose. As many millions of others who served proudly in the United States armed services, I have earned that right.
During the Vietnam war while serving in the USAF in Thailand, I worked as an Operating Room Specialist, in trying to save the lives of American soldiers who had been injured in that what I called illegal war. Some died.

We were told we were fighting to protect our American “freedoms.”

Today, there are 7.5 million Jews, 8.5 million Islamic, and some 220 million Christians, and about 70 million who are not members of any particular religious persuasion. Some of the non-aligned (non-members of any religious persuasion), that I met while in the military, were the most truthful and honest of the many people I met while in the military. Their secret? They didn’t try to manipulate or argue with others to get others to accept their personal religious or philosophical beliefs.

If you want Jews or Muslims, or others, to become interested in becoming “Christian,” then stop arguing about which religion others “should” be “required” to have, and start standing up against what your government, and mine, is doing when it lies to it’s own well-meaning people to start violent wars that have killed by now many hundreds of thousands of the innocent in the Persian Gulf, and all in fact for oil and natural gas reserves domination.

 

[William99]

Compulsory Christianity would destroy American science, literature and the arts.

 

[Kahlan_Amnell]

1. Do you believe Muslims will evntually end up controlling the Western World?
2. Is this necessarily a bad thing? Why or why not?
3. To stop America from being controlled by Muslims and to save the future of Christianity, should we make Christianity a requirement of citizenship from now on? All people already in the country who are non-christian are grandfathered in, but only Christians are granted citizenship from now on. Is this a good idea? Why or why not?

I am considering all these issues now and am currently on the fence.

Discuss.

1. I don’t think that’ll ever happen. At least, not in America. I can’t imagine an America where any one religious group is “in control.”
2. I think it would be a bad thing for any one group to be “in control” in America. America is supposed to be a country made up of many different people with different cultures and different religious, and I don’t want any one group to have power over another.
3. That would be incredibly un-American. Like I said above, America is a country of religious freedom. To not allow someone to be a citizen because of their religion is discrimination, and it’s incredibly unfair. Christians don’t deserve to be citizens any more than non-Christians do.

 

[Sarah_Angel]

This thread is ridiculous.

If Christianity became a required religion in the United States, we would have 3 major problems.

1. It would give Christianity a bad name to the rest of the world. Europeans would scoff at us as a nation and as Christians, and as a whole become even more turned off by the notion of Christianity and individuals would most likely never convert. They would use such a move as an excuse to mock Christianity and believe how it has tainted people’s minds. Too many people believe this already; why pour gasoline on the fire?

In short, it is terrible for evangelization purposes.

1. Non-Christians living in the United States would be terribly unhappy with this notion as well. They would either leave the country or “fake convert.” On the outside they would be Christians but on the inside they’d be something else entirely. We don’t want to encourage people to lie about what they believe in - that is encouraging people to sin, and that is not proper evangelization.

Besides, Muslims can fake convert, too.

1. It is unconstitutional. I couldn’t begin to imagine the political mess this whole thing would be causing.

 

[jbshmm]

IMHO - I believe it’s wrong to force our religion on someone. I mean - contrary to what our current pope teaches regarding the intrinsic necessity of freedom of religion, or even what JP2 taught before him. We’d be using our religion to pursue a social / political end in a way that’s not necessarily in consonance with what our religion teaches.

God bless!

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I get the 10 points if they haven’t been claimed yet. (They probably have.)

The answer is that so many people have converted to Islam because – particularly fundamentalist Islam – is counter-cultural to the prevailing First World trend of omnipresent, invasive moral disintegration, The more offensively decadent the culture, the more Islam has taken hold. In my region, for example, public charter schools with overwhelmingly Muslim student bodies have been formed with the State’s approval. Muslim holidays are observed. (And yes, these are publicly funded schools.) Muslim girls dress modestly and keep their heads covered. Boys are monitored to ensure they don’t get too friendly with the girls in an inappropriate way. Parents try to keep American rock music – but especially rap music – out of the school grounds. When foreign language is offered, it’s usually Arabic.

This is called reaction. The First World has invited it. These perceptions are also in contemporary Muslim publications.

Islam offers a countercultural lifestyle and an assertive defense against secularism. It also offers insularity by virtue of rejection, in community, of what most constitutes a Western secular identity.
10 points for me.

But the same could be said for truly orthodox Catholicism and Fundamentalist and Evangelical Protestant Christianity. Is is just that we don’t advertise well enough? What gets me is that everything that Christianity is slammed for being “intolerant” of–excessive drinking & drug use, promiscuity, immodest dress, homosexuality, abortion–brings a death sentence in Islam. The worst we ever do is tell someone they could end up in hell; the Muslims actually send them there! Yet, they’re the more attractive countercultural religion?

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[RonTheNewJew]

But the same could be said for truly orthodox Catholicism and Fundamentalist and Evangelical Protestant Christianity. Is is just that we don’t advertise well enough? What gets me is that everything that Christianity is slammed for being “intolerant” of–excessive drinking & drug use, promiscuity, immodest dress, homosexuality, abortion–brings a death sentence in Islam. The worst we ever do is tell someone they could end up in hell; the Muslims actually send them there! Yet, they’re the more attractive countercultural religion?

In Christ,

Ellen

In Muslim countries, they sometimes execute those guilty of sexual perversion, along with other crimes committed; some serious crimes. Sometimes I think they do this as a way of making a public statement about committing repeated crimes.

On the other side of things, I think American religion has become far too preachy-from-the-front, and in other cases remains too ritualistic as if ritual could transform character and, thus, “save” the individual. Within large congregations, breaking up into small, heterogeneous groups for sharing, praying, going places together and worshipping God in the outdoors, and special projects that benefit special needs peope, etc., is the way to go.
It joins the preachy things, with activities during which group members can, through social osmosis (my latest addition to new, grand theoretical sociological hypotheses and study), work to make personal behavioral changes in a small group communal setting.

The above is the way Islamic people do and live. The Jews do it the same way, especially in Israel. The preachers can keep things from becoming too isolated where the small groups are concerned. Thus, organized religion can become a real vehicle for behavioral change, and still mainain each denomination’s central doctrinal core.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

This thread is ridiculous.

If Christianity became a required religion in the United States, we would have 3 major problems.

1. It would give Christianity a bad name to the rest of the world. Europeans would scoff at us as a nation and as Christians, and as a whole become even more turned off by the notion of Christianity and individuals would most likely never convert. They would use such a move as an excuse to mock Christianity and believe how it has tainted people’s minds. Too many people believe this already; why pour gasoline on the fire?

In short, it is terrible for evangelization purposes.

1. Non-Christians living in the United States would be terribly unhappy with this notion as well. They would either leave the country or “fake convert.” On the outside they would be Christians but on the inside they’d be something else entirely. We don’t want to encourage people to lie about what they believe in - that is encouraging people to sin, and that is not proper evangelization.

Besides, Muslims can fake convert, too.

1. It is unconstitutional. I couldn’t begin to imagine the political mess this whole thing would be causing.

What if the country were founded this way? Would you think it a good idea then?

 

[Roy5]

I wonder: if the Founding Fathers had made being a Christian a necessity, my guess is that Catholics may not have been permitted to be citizens here. Remember: only one of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence was Catholic and many of them were Masons. It is likely that most of the signers were unfriendly toward Catholicism. They arrived here with lurid tales of persecution during the Reformation, which made them fearful of Catholic power. Fortunately, the position of Catholicism has changed and today that anxiety about Catholic power has all but vanished in the USA.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

The really scarry thing about anyone’s asking the question about whether or not to require new arrivals to American shores to be “Christian,” is that anyone even thought to ask such a question in the first place. Long history of persecution during the Protestant Reformation, which started within the Catholic Church, should remind people that any religious organization, when it gains too much power by means of the force of law, and let’s be honest, that is what the question is all about, when natural human resistance to such religio-political oligarchy starts, has always resulted in ever increasing persecution and violence.

True spirituality can only produce peace when people have the free right to exercize freedom of choice in religious matters. Anything else is a threat to freedom and, consequently, to the strength of any society.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Right now, Muslims and the Islamic faith are growing in the Western world at an alarmingly fast rate. France will probably become Muslim soon. I believe England is next. I do believe that eventually (when is not certain) America too will eventually be controlled by Muslims.

So, three questions:

1. Do you believe Muslims will evntually end up controlling the Western World?
2. Is this necessarily a bad thing? Why or why not?
3. To stop America from being controlled by Muslims and to save the future of Christianity, should we make Christianity a requirement of citizenship from now on? All people already in the country who are non-christian are grandfathered in, but only Christians are granted citizenship from now on. Is this a good idea? Why or why not?

I am considering all these issues now and am currently on the fence.

Discuss.

1. Possible, not probable.
2. Refuse to comment on such a broad and sweeping statement other than to say I would not relish the thought.
3. Are you all that desperate?

If given a choice, would you vote based on a person’s religion or lack of, or would you vote according to your conscience?