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Corpus_Cristi
Guest
that supports sola scriptura. I really want to see where you THINK you get your belief on this, though, that’s not where it came from originally, which you may or may not know.
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StratusRose
Guest
I’m going to be as nice as I can about this…
I think we need to stop this whole “Protestant vs. Catholic” fiasco. You’re not going to win anyone over by trying to show them who is right or wrong. It’s not like they are devil worshippers or anything. Let it go. I think we’re beating the dead horse. :yup:
Love Thy Neighbor!!!
I think we need to stop this whole “Protestant vs. Catholic” fiasco. You’re not going to win anyone over by trying to show them who is right or wrong. It’s not like they are devil worshippers or anything. Let it go. I think we’re beating the dead horse. :yup:
Love Thy Neighbor!!!
C
Corpus_Cristi
Guest
LOOK. Protestants come in here all the time and make outrageous objections, and then, they expect us to apologize to our faith for them. It doesn’t seem fair if we don’t expect the same of them, does it? We may not think that they’re devil worshipers, but it’s pretty clear that some of them think WE are, so we need to defend the faith. I really want to see where they get their “reason” from and how they think that our faith is “unreasonable”. Of all the posts where we Catholics have to apologize to our faith, besides the two apologetics forums, it doesn’t make sense that for EVERY one, we have to cough up a scripture passage to defend our faith, and when we can’t, they just slap a label on the church saying that we’re heretical. But in order to defend the faith, we need to show how we are NOT heretical, which means, we must show how sola scriptura is NOT biblical, therefore, we don’t need to give them scripture every single time they want an answer. What I’m trying to do here with this post, is establish the fact that we don’t need to go to the Bible for EVERY SINGLE THING. That’s all. They try to make our faith look wrong, I’m trying to make our faith look right, because it is right. The fact that their approach to scripture is wrong will come out of this, and I’m not making is blatantly obvious now. If I made an outrageously rude post to how protestant theology is trash, then that would be wrong. I’m asking them, how and why do you see your theology to be correct, and Catholic theology to be incorrect. There’s nothing rude, mean, or competitive about that.
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StratusRose
Guest
Corpus Cristi:
If you don’t like what they’re saying, then don’t read it. Just because they make “outagous objections” doesn’t make it right to try to corner them on their theology. I think you’re trying to fight fire with fire.
TURN THE OTHER CHEEK!
If you don’t like what they’re saying, then don’t read it. Just because they make “outagous objections” doesn’t make it right to try to corner them on their theology. I think you’re trying to fight fire with fire.
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Corpus_Cristi
Guest
i’m not fighting, i’m defending
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StratusRose
Guest
Corpus Cristi:
I could understand if a protestant started the thread, but you did. It just seemed to me that you were picking a fight.i’m not fighting, i’m defending
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bengal_fan
Guest
Corpus Cristi:
Corpus Cristi:
Corpus Cristi:
Corpus Cristi:
all this being said, protestants do have an argument for sola scriptura, but it is not a very good one. most would seem to agree with the catholic church’s idea of prima scriptura and that we need an infallible interpreter (if they don’t agree on paper, they would have to agree in practice) to institute the traditions which are based in scripture (whether through prophecy, inferred or explicitly stated).
who said life was supposed to be fair? (i sound like my father)
Corpus Cristi:
this is not defending the faith, this is attacking some one else’s faith.
Corpus Cristi:
1Pet. 3:15 says to always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that is in you, but do it with gentleness and respect. the catholic church has a scriptural argument for every single one of it’s doctrines. if you don’t know them it’s okay to say “i don’t know but i’ll find out.” if they are then uncharitable it doesn’t give you (or me or anyone) the excuse to be uncharitable in return.
Corpus Cristi:
again, by attacking part of their faith is not defending your own. only give a reason when some one asks.
all this being said, protestants do have an argument for sola scriptura, but it is not a very good one. most would seem to agree with the catholic church’s idea of prima scriptura and that we need an infallible interpreter (if they don’t agree on paper, they would have to agree in practice) to institute the traditions which are based in scripture (whether through prophecy, inferred or explicitly stated).
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Corpus_Cristi
Guest
Okay, I agree. I was attacking, and I shouldn’t have been attacking. I admit it. Now, can we leave this alone?
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jmm08
Guest
Corpus Cristi:
Really though, if you only want one scripture verse to make you happy that is called “Cafeteria-Style Sola Scriptura”. Real Sola Scriptura folks do pay attention to the context.
I’m also signed up for RCIA / RCIC this year – so don’t try to talk me out of it with a question like this…
And those of you Sola Scriptura folks had better pay attention because if a Catholic can back you up, maybe we do know better after all.
How about Deuteronomy 8:3. “…not by bread alone does man live, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of the LORD”. The contrast-idea style of Hebrew poetry implies that man can rely solely on God’s word.
Yes, but that isn’t the whole verse – it is just the last part of it.
But don’t you know it was a Catholic man who divided up the scriptures putting chapter and verse numbers on them. OK. You didn’t know?
Well Jesus quotes it too – and here is a whole verse:
Matthew 4:4 – He [Jesus] said in reply, “It is written: ‘One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God.’”
Jesus didn’t instead say that you read the Word and make sure the Rabbis agree with you.
And the quotations are from NAB so the Catholics can’t back down saying it is a bad version. And us Sola Scriptura folks pay special attention when Jesus says something (red letters in our red letter edition Bibles).
However, I must admit that if somebody reads the Bible and understands it incorrectly, it can become in their heart a word from the devil instead of a word from the Lord. Look at the Jonestown massacre. And many cults who quote the Bible. That is how Sola Scriptura doesn’t hold up. When we see the Bible the way the magesterium teaches us to look at it or when we are lead by the Holy Spirit, that is when we hear from the mouth of the LORD.
I’m still going to RCIA / RCIC – but nice try Catholic guy.
(Do I hear a RCIA / RCIC instructor out there crying “Its gonna be a long year.” – I’ll try not to be too bad.)
:tiphat:
I’m coughing, I’m coughing.
Really though, if you only want one scripture verse to make you happy that is called “Cafeteria-Style Sola Scriptura”. Real Sola Scriptura folks do pay attention to the context.
I’m also signed up for RCIA / RCIC this year – so don’t try to talk me out of it with a question like this…
And those of you Sola Scriptura folks had better pay attention because if a Catholic can back you up, maybe we do know better after all.
How about Deuteronomy 8:3. “…not by bread alone does man live, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of the LORD”. The contrast-idea style of Hebrew poetry implies that man can rely solely on God’s word.
Yes, but that isn’t the whole verse – it is just the last part of it.
But don’t you know it was a Catholic man who divided up the scriptures putting chapter and verse numbers on them. OK. You didn’t know?
Well Jesus quotes it too – and here is a whole verse:
Matthew 4:4 – He [Jesus] said in reply, “It is written: ‘One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God.’”
Jesus didn’t instead say that you read the Word and make sure the Rabbis agree with you.
And the quotations are from NAB so the Catholics can’t back down saying it is a bad version. And us Sola Scriptura folks pay special attention when Jesus says something (red letters in our red letter edition Bibles).
However, I must admit that if somebody reads the Bible and understands it incorrectly, it can become in their heart a word from the devil instead of a word from the Lord. Look at the Jonestown massacre. And many cults who quote the Bible. That is how Sola Scriptura doesn’t hold up. When we see the Bible the way the magesterium teaches us to look at it or when we are lead by the Holy Spirit, that is when we hear from the mouth of the LORD.
I’m still going to RCIA / RCIC – but nice try Catholic guy.
(Do I hear a RCIA / RCIC instructor out there crying “Its gonna be a long year.” – I’ll try not to be too bad.)
:tiphat:
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Little_Mary
Guest
Can we salvage this thread now? Because the original question got my attention. It prompts this question: How many followers of Sola Scriptura acknowledge that this concept is not in the bible?
I do not mean that as an attack - I would really like to see this addressed by followers of Sola Scriptura.
Thank you.
I do not mean that as an attack - I would really like to see this addressed by followers of Sola Scriptura.
Thank you.
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Shibboleth
Guest
The Latin expression “sola scriptura” refers to the authority of the Holy Scriptures to serve as the sole norm for all that is taught and confessed in the church. In numerous passages the Scriptures claim this authority for themselves as the inspired Word of God. For example, St. Paul writes in 2 Tim. 3:16, “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness…” (RSV). Likewise, the apostle Peter declares that “no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” (2 Pet. 1:20-21; RSV). It should be remembered that acceptance of the Bible as the sole authority for teaching comes not from rational arguments or human traditions, but is a conviction produced by the Holy Spirit in the human heart. In other words, it is a matter of faith worked by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures themselves (see 1 Thess. 2:13)!
There is, of course, no contradiction between 2 Pet. 1:20 and what Peter says later in 3:15-16. That the Scriptures may be difficult for human beings to understand in certain places does not take away from their divine authority. In fact, St. Peter’s words underline the necessity and importance of praying for the Holy Spirit’s guidance to properly interpret Scripture as we “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet. 3:18; emphasis added).
Hope this helps…
There is, of course, no contradiction between 2 Pet. 1:20 and what Peter says later in 3:15-16. That the Scriptures may be difficult for human beings to understand in certain places does not take away from their divine authority. In fact, St. Peter’s words underline the necessity and importance of praying for the Holy Spirit’s guidance to properly interpret Scripture as we “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet. 3:18; emphasis added).
Hope this helps…
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drforjc
Guest
This is called begging the question. You assert that by saying the scriptures claim authority as the inspired word of God they teach sola scriptura. This is an unwarranted assertion.
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drforjc
Guest
But, Mormons claim the same for the inspiration of the Book of Mormon and Muslims for the Koran.
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Shibboleth
Guest
Yes it is a tautology or begging the question or circular logic. That was the question being asked though - where in scripture does scripture state that it is the sole authority. I simply gave that person the answer they were seeking.
Of course there is more. Through God we are given the gift of true faith and the Holy Spirit to guide us. With that gift we put our faith in his word that is written in the Holy Bible. Within that Bible we find the information being asked.
In the end though I am O.K. with it being illogical. God transcends our simple minds. God is because God is, and I believe in God because of God exists.
I believe in God because of the faith that he provides for me.
Sometimes the most beautiful and perfect thing is a circle.
Of course there is more. Through God we are given the gift of true faith and the Holy Spirit to guide us. With that gift we put our faith in his word that is written in the Holy Bible. Within that Bible we find the information being asked.
In the end though I am O.K. with it being illogical. God transcends our simple minds. God is because God is, and I believe in God because of God exists.
I believe in God because of the faith that he provides for me.
Sometimes the most beautiful and perfect thing is a circle.
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Shibboleth
Guest
Sola Scriptura does not assure us that we will not make mistakes. The most foolish person in the world is the one that doesn’t realize that he is a fool. Read my signature as to fools….
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homer
Guest
bible.ca/catholic-questions.htm
Makes you think doesn’t it?
You are always asking for a proof for Sola Scriptura, proof proof proof… The question that should be asked after you visit the web site and read the questions is: Can you give me a proof that YOUR tradition is the true one? And please do not mention “we are the only true church” thing… bla bla bla. This is not a proof. The Holy Bible is a physical thing I have in hand. It is the Word of God for sure and the Word of God DOESN’T CHANGE and can always lead me in the right direction. Understand this: YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER SOURCE THAN THE WORD OF GOD.
Makes you think doesn’t it?
You are always asking for a proof for Sola Scriptura, proof proof proof… The question that should be asked after you visit the web site and read the questions is: Can you give me a proof that YOUR tradition is the true one? And please do not mention “we are the only true church” thing… bla bla bla. This is not a proof. The Holy Bible is a physical thing I have in hand. It is the Word of God for sure and the Word of God DOESN’T CHANGE and can always lead me in the right direction. Understand this: YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER SOURCE THAN THE WORD OF GOD.
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Shibboleth
Guest
homer said:
Although I agree I would like to add this…
Even though the Bible or Scriptures are sufficient in that they contain all that is necessary for the world to understand God and his will, people in themselves are not as lucky. A blind man with no hands or an illiterate person cannot read the Bible.
We are all on one level or another blinded by various faults be it pride, foolishness, etc… we must always be aware of our shortcomings and seek assistance in those that excel where we fail.
The Spirit works through all believers and we should not ignore the other Christians of the world when we seek answers.
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1962Missal
Guest
homer said:
Please take the time to do a search for the “Word of God” and “Word of the Lord” in the Bible and see just how often it refers to something OTHER than Sacred Scripture.
Justin
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Corpus Cristi:
CC , You need to get rid of that attitude that you need to defend the faith. The FAITH has been defended by the Holy Spirit for over 2000 years. What you need to show protestants on this forum is Gods love, They will know we are christians by our love.If we cant be Christlike in our actions then we have no business being on this forum. We are here to learn from each other, also that we may grow in Christ.
J
jimmy
Guest
That verse is not really a support for sola scriptura. All the words coming from Gods mouth do not have to be written in the bible. But I will say that pretty much every Catholic belief is grounded in scripture.
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