Could God ever condone an abortion?

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In recent conversation, I’ve been told that for us to say that God could never privately reveal to someone that “it was okay for them to go through with an abortion” is to limit God and deny his omnipotence. I’ve made the argument that God can not go against what he has already revealed, but I am challenged by parts of the bible where God does condone violence against man, woman, AND child.

Any thoughts?
 
In recent conversation, I’ve been told that for us to say that God could never privately reveal to someone that “it was okay for them to go through with an abortion” is to limit God and deny his omnipotence. I’ve made the argument that God can not go against what he has already revealed, but I am challenged by parts of the bible where God does condone violence against man, woman, AND child.

Any thoughts?
Not to mention the fact that 20+% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion.

I agree with you that God can’t go against what he has revealed. But still, to quote King Mongkut, “Is a puzzlement.”
 
God does not condone abortion, period. For what purpose would it serve to create life just for it to be deliberately destroyed?

Here is a video from Deacon Harold Burke-Sivers that offers an excellent explanation:

m.youtube.com/watch?list=FLR-oVQeEjZjmfj58nVJziSw&v=NCrzXN4nFbE

Regarding the Bible matter one must understand that man repeatedly entered into union with God time and time again only to betray God and offended him to the point of incurring God’s wrath. We cannot understand God’s ways but we can accept responsibility for our actions that may lead to suffering. Too many variables to cover.
Not to mention the fact that 20+% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion."
What is a “spontaneous abortion?” Abortion is a deliberate act, not spontaneous. Are you referring to an unforeseen circumstance such as miscarriage?
 
I think it says volumes about people’s limited conceptions of God as Infinite, when questions like this are answered in the negative. Fact is, it is a question above the pay grade of everyone right up to the Pope, to say what God would think in a specific circumstance. We merely know what, in general terms, is the right and virtuous thing (in this case, not to have an abortion).

I think it’s fair to say that God is never happy about the ending of human life before its time, and this has to include abortion. But to say there are no circumstances in which an infinite and loving being could compass abortion as opposed to any alternative, is wrong. In fact it’s practically heretical.

Thing is, we don’t know what God would do or think in every case, although we are pretty sure what the general rule is. Could God ever condone an abortion? Absolutely. Has He done so? What circumstances would have to be present from Him to condone it? We don’t know. We do know that God could never condone someone for not having an abortion.
 
There is a law, which has been revealed to us by God and which is His Truth, and that is that abortion is completely wrong and unjustifiable. God does not err and God not does change, so He would never reveal to someone that having an abortion would be okay.

May God bless you all abundantly and forever! 🙂
 
Very interesting. When I read your post, I realized that this is how the serpent must have convinced Eve that the apple was good to eat.

Abortion is murder of an innocent. An innocent human being. We live in such a time that there are so many lies being told that we can’t even see that any more. You know that 500 years ago they didn’t have the science we have yet they knew a pregnant woman was carrying a baby.
 
God never condones murder. Abortion is always murder.

God sometimes condones just killings (i.e. self defense, just war, etc); but that is not murder. Abortion is always murder.

NOW: that does not mean that God cannot forgive a person who commits abortion. He can in His Divine Mercy and love for us. But forgiving a sin and condoning a sin are not the same thing.
 
snip

What is a “spontaneous abortion?” Abortion is a deliberate act, not spontaneous. Are you referring to an unforeseen circumstance such as miscarriage?
“Spontaneous abortion” is the accepted medical term for “miscarriage.” So-called “medical/surgical abortions” are a subset of all abortions, of which miscarriages are another subset. Your understanding that only the surgical or pharmacological termination of a pregnancy is in error.
 
Not to mention the fact that 20+% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion.

I agree with you that God can’t go against what he has revealed. But still, to quote King Mongkut, “Is a puzzlement.”
This is pretty much the same as saying that because people die naturally murder should be allowed and perfevtly legal in society…not to mention that they are going to die anyway so what is wrong with murder?

Natural death (which would be the case of a spontaneous abortion) does not give anyone the right to intentionally kill another human being (abortion).
 
“Spontaneous abortion” is the accepted medical term for “miscarriage.” So-called “medical/surgical abortions” are a subset of all abortions, of which miscarriages are another subset. Your understanding that only the surgical or pharmacological termination of a pregnancy is in error.
You must have missed where I said, Abortion is a deliberate act, not spontaneous.

Please don’t presume to state that my understanding is in error when you neglect to read and/or address an explanation of my understanding. Simply because umbrella terminology is created should not suggest that it is truly accurate.
 
You must have missed where I said, Abortion is a deliberate act, not spontaneous.

Please don’t presume to state that my understanding is in error when you neglect to read and/or address an explanation of my understanding. Simply because umbrella terminology is created should not suggest that it is truly accurate.
Whatever. I’ve had the medical terminology training; obviously you have not.

Just as a BTW, I was not using the fact that a non-trivial percentage of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion to indicate that I favor surgical/pharmacological abortions. I do not, no way, shape, or form. Period.
 
Whatever. I’ve had the medical terminology training; obviously you have not.

Just as a BTW, I was not using the fact that a non-trivial percentage of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion to indicate that I favor surgical/pharmacological abortions. I do not, no way, shape, or form. Period.
Why do you think the OP was using medical terminology?
 
Whatever. I’ve had the medical terminology training; obviously you have not.
I’m sure that if I am so foolishly ignorant of this knowledge (how would have I known?) that you possess that perhaps you should consider that other readers may not know as well. That is why I asked and gave you my perspective, no need for you be pretentious about it.
 
The original poster, like most users of the English language, was referring to a medical/surgical abortion done with the purpose of feticide. Bringing up the medical term when it is not being used is beside the point.

For example, if I say you need your pool cue and your pool balls to play pool, and you bring up that you need a swimsuit and floaties, you aren’t actually responding to what I’m saying, even though “pool” also means a swimming pool. This sort of wordplay is funny but not useful.

Moving along, the proper response is Isaiah 49:15-16 –

“Can a woman forget her infant, and not have pity on the child of her womb? But if she should forget, yet I will not forget you.”
 
God the Father doesn’t explicitly mention abortion in scripture and explain that its wrong, meaning you will not find the word “abortion” as banned in Deuteronomy or anywhere else. Neither does Jesus in the Gospels, or any other New Testament writer.

Catholic teachings against abortion are based on those against killing. A frequent Catholic response is that abortion is always wrong because God is always against the destruction of human life, based on the Ten Commandments. Another frequent argument is that God knows all humans before they were born, so God would never want human life ended before birth (this idea is based on the passage where God says he knew Isaiah would be his prophet before he was born). But God the Father frequently ordered killing in the Bible, including criminal executions and offensive war. God specifically demanded the killing of children and pregnant women when he commanded that defeated enemy nations be eliminated. According to scripture, God did not see these killings as immoral murder. Revelation states that Jesus will personally lead armies and kill God’s enemies. I’ve met a few Catholics who are against abortion on sanctity of life grounds, and who also believe that its always wrong to take human life. But I think most Catholics approve of police deadly force when need, or just wars as the Church teaches, even if it that means that millions of civilians will die, including pregnant women and children, like in the world wars. My point is not to criticize the Church or scripture here, but to point out how people look at killing in different ways.

When people say that abortion is wrong because God is always against killing, or always against the killing of babies, most of them mean that God is always against intentionally killing babies in the specific context of abortion. The frequent objection to this is that it means that once a female has become pregnant, God would require her to give birth even in what would normally be repugnant and harmful circumstances. So this would mean that God would always insist that a raped woman have her rapist’s child, to the point of avoiding post-rape contraception to make sure its not prevented, or that God would always insist that a minor have a child, or that a sick woman have a child even if it would endanger her life. Many Catholics will often argue that abortion is always more emotionally harmful than giving birth, but human emotions are subjective - what we are talking about here is why God himself would always forbid abortion. Sometimes Catholics will interpret scripture as saying that a woman’s body is not her own, but that its simply used as a breeding vessel when God wants to create new life. This idea assumes that its always God’s will (not just his permissive will, but his personal agency) when a woman becomes pregnant, and so this means that it would also have been God’s will for a woman to have been raped, or a minor child to have had underage sex, or for a woman to be endangered by a pregnancy. An objection to the idea of rape and underage pregnancy as being God’s will is the fact that in scripture, God forbids both rape and unmarried sexual activity.

Another frequent argument for abortion always being wrong is the idea that any impregnated woman has an obligation to give birth, because she received the benefit of a womb herself. This argument states that its unfair for anyone who has been born themselves to support abortion under any circumstances. I mention it here because its often linked to the idea that its always God’s will for a woman’s body to be used for reproduction, and for a child to be carried to term, once a woman has become pregnant.
 
In recent conversation, I’ve been told that for us to say that God could never privately reveal to someone that “it was okay for them to go through with an abortion” is to limit God and deny his omnipotence. I’ve made the argument that God can not go against what he has already revealed, but I am challenged by parts of the bible where God does condone violence against man, woman, AND child.

Any thoughts?
These conversations are easy to end.

Ask your friend if God would condone male sexual abuse of young male children if the person said “well it was privately revealed to me.” And then the conversation will move on away from such illogical points as “does God condone abortion”:rolleyes:
 
Condone? The better question is how does God feel when his own creations are disregarding and profaning the procreative act and disposing of the creations of this act because they are inconvenient, imperfect, burdensome?

The closest parallel I could imagine is how a parent of a large family might feel if some of the children killed some of the smaller, weaker children.

When we talk of God, we must talk of God as Creator, Parent, Mighty and Loving Master. If God can conceive of us and give us free will, I’m sure God has full awareness of our potential for creation or destruction in acting on that free will. If God has created humans capable of deep feeling, loss, anger, and grief, I’m sure those feelings, after observing a human opt for, condone, or participate in an abortion, must be immense for our Creator. But why would a creator CONDONE any act of destruction that is a fruit of disobedience, a result of using our free will to work against imitating our Creator by not creating, accommodating, or acknowledging a new life, and instead putting self before life by choosing death.

I’m sure the discussion could go on infinitely because of the eternal, infinite nature of God, but at the beginning, CREATION is the first example set for us in this existence of free will and should be how we express our thanks to God for choosing to create us.
 
In recent conversation, I’ve been told that for us to say that God could never privately reveal to someone that “it was okay for them to go through with an abortion” is to limit God and deny his omnipotence. I’ve made the argument that God can not go against what he has already revealed, but I am challenged by parts of the bible where God does condone violence against man, woman, AND child.

Any thoughts?
This seems a pointless question, akin to contemplating Angels on a pinhead…

We can only deal with morality as we understand it to be.
 
Well, when my wife had a miscarriage, the doctor apologetically explained that it’s called a spontaneous abortion.
 
In recent conversation, I’ve been told that for us to say that God could never privately reveal to someone that “it was okay for them to go through with an abortion” is to limit God and deny his omnipotence.
This argument is based on a wrong definition of “omnipotent”. God is not “omnipotent” in the sense that he can do anything at all; He is omnipotent in that he can do anything that is not against His nature. For example, God cannot make a being greater than He because He is the greatest being. He cannot make a stone so large He cannot lift it because that is a logical impossibility.

With the correct understanding of omnipotent and knowing that God forbids us to murder (the intentional taking of an innocent life) we see that God cannot condone an abortion for to do so would be to condone allowing us to murder which by His nature He cannot do.
I’ve made the argument that God can not go against what he has already revealed, but I am challenged by parts of the bible where God does condone violence against man, woman, AND child.
The biggest hump to get over when looking at the OT killings is the idea that God is just a bigger version of us (e.g. “I would never condone killing all those people so how can God?”). God is so far above us and His knowledge and wisdom is so far above us that we cannot even begin to understand in the smallest way how He thinks (it is one of the reasons He gives us the prophets and Jesus to help us to understand in simple terms that which we really will never understand).

We owe everything to God and He owes nothing to us. He can snuff out the entire universe easier than we snuff out a match. All life is His to give and His to take. When we start to see Him this way, we see that we cannot judge by our human standards His deeds (and we should be humbled and awed that one of His “deeds” was to send His Son to die for us)

I pray that helps, a little?
 
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