Could God forgive Satan?

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Dorothy said:
It is not necessary for you to read the entire document, only if you want to. I pointed out that section because I thought that would respond to what you were thinking.

Here is the best way that I can explain…perhaps others with more correct education can explain better.

The rebellious angels were given a vast intelligence which enabled them to see at a glance the consequences of their choice. The angels rebelled against God through the sin of Pride, and Jealousy.
They had free will.

All the good and beauty that they had came from God! They chose not to serve Him and acknowledge that with humility.

Peace,

Dorothy

P.S. Perhaps you can pray for understanding and read #5 again? I pray all good for you.
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When something is undone or unsatisfied then pride and jealousy overcome. Everything is matter of time. So fall of angels was unavoidable hence all blame is on shoulder of God unless if the story is a lame.
 
Elizium23 said:
You are wrong. Forgiveness is predicated upon repentance. Angels cannot repent, as they have made an irrevocable choice.
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So it would seem, as there is no evidence at all that hell is a temporal punishment.

But apparently that was O.K. with the Prince of Darkness and his underlings.

Better to rule in hell than serve in heaven.

Since he once knew heaven, wonder if he still thinks so. 🤷
 
Elizium23 said:
You are wrong. Forgiveness is predicated upon repentance. Angels cannot repent, as they have made an irrevocable choice.
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God is eternal, therefore his forgiveness is eternal. God does not change. He does not forgive one day and not the next day. Love is always mercy. Love is always Judgment. It is mens hearts that change. Their hearts open one day and their hearts close the next day.
 
Dorothy said:
It is so good to look to the teachings of the Church instead of thinking of distorted ways to explain deep truths.
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It is good to look and reason with what you are looking at, otherwise you risk distorting the truth and end up telling some poor soul that God uses physical fire to eternally torture those who have not been baptized; not realizing that hell fire is just an analogy of eternal suffering and God is not limited to organized physical instances of church baptism in-order to save a soul. The church once said that unbaptized babies go to limbo. What changed their minds to take on a humble agnosticism on the matter and consider the possibility that unbaptized babies go to heaven i wonder? Reason.

Faith and reason. Not just faith.
 
One difference between angels and humans is they have the big picture and we don’t.
 
GodMadeMe said:
It is good to look and reason with what you are looking at, otherwise you risk distorting the truth and end up telling some poor soul that God uses physical fire to eternally torture those who have not been baptized; not realizing that hell fire is just an analogy of eternal suffering and God is not limited to organized physical instances of church baptism in-order to save a soul. The church once said that unbaptized babies go to limbo. What changed their minds to take on a humble agnosticism on the matter and consider the possibility that unbaptized babies go to heaven i wonder? Reason.

Faith and reason. Not just faith.
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Limbo was speculative theology, it was never an official Church teaching.

I am a senior citizen and I was never taught that unbaptized persons would suffer torture forever. The catechism teaches that we leave that to the mercy of God. God is all Loving and knows what He is doing.

Reason helps us understand the truths of our faith…but it is hard for me to see that if everyone used reason to come to conclusions about the truths of our faith that they would all come to the same conclusions.

God is infinite, we are finite. God is perfectly good. I can trust Him with the complicated questions that may come up.

May our Lord Jesus Christ help us all to trust Him!
 
GodMadeMe said:
God is eternal, therefore his forgiveness is eternal. God does not change. He does not forgive one day and not the next day. Love is always mercy. Love is always Judgment. It is mens hearts that change. Their hearts open one day and their hearts close the next day.
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We’re talking about angels, not men.

But if you want to talk about men, let’s talk about how there is no repentance after death. Death is the point where man’s choice becomes irrevocable. After death it is judgement and Heaven, Purgatory or Hell, eternal consequences for a temporal choice.
 
Elizium23 said:
We’re talking about angels, not men.

But if you want to talk about men, let’s talk about how there is no repentance after death. Death is the point where man’s choice becomes irrevocable. After death it is judgement and Heaven, Purgatory or Hell, eternal consequences for a temporal choice.
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God can do anything he wants, even forgive a person or an angel after death. Are you saying God is limited in these instances?
 
SonOfMan said:
God can do anything he wants, even forgive a person or an angel after death. Are you saying God is limited in these instances?
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Can god make a square triangle?

No, he can’t, because by definition a square is not a triangle.

Can God make a rock so big that he can’t move it?

No, not because he is limited in his ability, but because that is a logical fallacy.

Our faith teaches us that The Fallen Angels and those Humans who die in mortal sin are eternally persistent in their rejection of God, and it is a fallacy to say that God can forgive those who do not seek forgiveness.
 
Elizium23 said:
We’re talking about angels, not men.

But if you want to talk about men, let’s talk about how there is no repentance after death. Death is the point where man’s choice becomes irrevocable. After death it is judgement and Heaven, Purgatory or Hell, eternal consequences for a temporal choice.
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Yes, but our souls are IMMORTAL, they never die, the only thing that dies is our earthly bodies, so if what you are saying is true, God basically gave his gifts of forgiveness, grace and love to our earthly bodies ONLY, if we suddenly loose our free will when our earthly bodies die, then free will was a gift of the body, not the soul…that does not sound like the nature of God imo, because our soul is really who we are, our bodies are only a tool useful in this world.
 
mikekle said:
Yes, but our souls are IMMORTAL, they never die, the only thing that dies is our earthly bodies, so if what you are saying is true, God basically gave his gifts of forgiveness, grace and love to our earthly bodies ONLY, if we suddenly loose our free will when our earthly bodies die, then free will was a gift of the body, not the soul…that does not sound like the nature of God imo, because our soul is really who we are, our bodies are only a tool useful in this world.
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We do not lose free will when we die. Those who get to Heaven will afterwards simply never choose anything but the Lord, as Jesus and Mary do.
 
Stephen_says said:
Can god make a square triangle?

No, he can’t, because by definition a square is not a triangle.

Can God make a rock so big that he can’t move it?

No, not because he is limited in his ability, but because that is a logical fallacy.

Our faith teaches us that The Fallen Angels and those Humans who die in mortal sin are eternally persistent in their rejection of God, and it is a fallacy to say that God can forgive those who do not seek forgiveness.
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You don’t understand or don’t want to for fear of error which is understandable but you are falling into error regardless.

The Fallen Angels and those Humans who die in mortal sin are eternally persistent in their rejection of God’s eternal “forgiveness”. They are persistent in their rejection of God’s eternal nature which is love.

There is no logical fallacy involved in that fact. The logical error is in your understanding of God’s nature and your failure to interpret forgiveness in light of God’s metaphysical attributes. God does not change. God is his will.
 
mikekle said:
Yes, but our souls are IMMORTAL, they never die, the only thing that dies is our earthly bodies, so if what you are saying is true, God basically gave his gifts of forgiveness, grace and love to our earthly bodies ONLY
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That’s an interesting way to put it! I’ve never seen anyone make that sort of claim before!

Unfortunately, that’s a logical error; namely, ‘correlation does not imply causation’. As an example, I might observe that when I lay down in bed at night, I fall asleep. However, this does not mean that laying down in bed causes me to fall asleep; rather, the two actions are merely correlated. (After all, I might lay down in bed while carrying on a phone conversation, or watching TV, and I don’t fall asleep because I’m in bed.)

Similarly, when we die, our physical bodies die (while our soul continues to live). The fact that we no longer may be forgiven of sin after death is only correlated, not caused, by the presence of our physical bodies. The causation is found elsewhere: at death, we will experience the particular judgment; following that judgment, no change of eternal destiny is possible. The cause is not ‘presence of physical body’.
that does not sound like the nature of God imo, because our soul is really who we are, our bodies are only a tool useful in this world.
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Your Christian Anthropology is somewhat deficient: our bodies are not simply “a tool useful in this world.” They’re an integral part of who we are as human persons; therefore, the reunification of soul with (glorified) body in the eschaton is a fulfillment of God’s plan for us as humans… and not just the replacement of a ‘useful tool’…! 😉
 
Charlemagne_III said:
This is the question Camille Paglia once asked a nun when she was a young girl attending Catholic school.

It is an intriguing question, since it was rooted in Paglia’s understanding that God is all forgiving.

Is the answer self evident to you? If not, please speculate. 😉
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There is no forgiveness for Angels that sin against God.
 
Dorothy said:
Limbo was speculative theology, it was never an official Church teaching.
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I was not aware of that. But it must have been a very popular idea in the church.
And so many if not most people thought it was official until the church said otherwise. However, the point I’m trying to make is that “reason” helped people to see that it wasn’t a true reflection of a good God to leave his creation in limbo for all eternity on the mere technicality of not being officially baptized. It was in response to the uproar that the church was forced to make an official statement on the matter.

Am i wrong about that?
 
Lucifer, the “morning star” fell because of PRIDE. Once loved above all others, he was created in perfect beauty and perfect wisdom. This, of course, went to his ego and Lucifer is now, well, Satan. He fell from grace along with other fallen angels.

Anyway, my point being is that the answer is no. Lucifer fell from grace, he is not sorry, he can’t, or won’t, repent. John’s Revelations prophesize what will happen to Satan. And St. Michael the great Archangel, holy prince of the Heavenly Host, will have to take Lucifer down *again… *
 
GreyWings said:
Lucifer, the “morning star” fell because of PRIDE. Once loved above all others, he was created in perfect beauty and perfect wisdom. This, of course, went to his ego and Lucifer is now, well, Satan. He fell from grace along with other fallen angels.
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Ah, well then you could say after all he was not created with perfect wisdom? 🤷
 
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