Could Hell be Cold?

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I accept the idea of eternal hell but i can never accept the idea of someone physically burning alive forever. Why would God want that. What good does it serve? Its a human concept, something that a human would do.

Hell is like being burned alive. That is a more credible and consistent interpretation of a God that has the nature of love.
 
I accept the idea of eternal hell but i can never accept the idea of someone physically burning alive forever. Why would God want that. What good does it serve? Its a human concept, something that a human would do.

Hell is like being burned alive. That is a more credible and consistent interpretation of a God that has the nature of love.
Greetings.

This is definitely a tough subject, but I hope some of what I share with you will shed a little light.

God certainly does not want any of us to suffer in Hell. It’s contrary to what He calls us to, which is eternal happiness and union with Him in Heaven.

I am going to guess that you have a fine grasp of free will and the consequence of our choice to cooperate with God or choose against Him, but in case you don’t (or maybe just for those who may be lurking 😉 ) I’ll try to give the basic overview:
  1. God has given us the power of free will
  2. God respects the choices we make with our free will
  3. Our choice of rejecting God and His love demonstrates a desire to be separated from Him (and, similarly, accepting Him and cooperating with Him demonstrates a desire for union)
  4. Because God respects one’s choice to be separated from Him, Hell is the resulting consequence for those who have made that choice.
Your comment on having trouble accepting somebody experiencing fire for eternity is something I’ve heard several times. And, I think, it’s understandable given how immediate our contact with the physical world is. Physical pain is easy to understand and recall since we all have had very direct (and sometimes intense) experiences with it. However, I would ask you to think about your understanding of the pains of Hell. Physical pain is (or at least will be, as I’ll try to explain in a moment) an aspect of suffering for the damned humans, but it couldn’t be the essential suffering of Hell. Remember that the fallen angels are there, too, and they do not have bodies. As far as I understand, the essential pain of Hell is the permanent deprivation of the Beatific Vision , of the loss of the infinite truth, goodness, and beauty found only in God, which is what we are naturally made to desire.

This pain of loss is much more intense than any bodily injury could inflict, but is much more essential to the pains of Hell than bodily injuries.

But, please remember that God is the source of all goodness, joy, and pleasure. So if one chooses to separate himself from God, it follows that this separated existence be separated from these aspects as much as possible. We as humans are made to be body and soul together, so at the time of the Resurrection, when all are reunited to their bodies, it follows that the damned in their bodies are as far from any physical joy and pleasure (given what was said). Personally, I think fire is particularly appropriate here because fire purifies (like gold in the furnace), and can also be compared to the pains and trials we undergo in sanctification, so it would be all the more appropriate that the physical sufferings of the damned be actual fire, but obviously void of any of its purifying or sanctifying aspects.

Again, God desires none of us to suffer the pains of Hell, but because he respects our freedom to choose for or against Him, the pains and sufferings of the damned (physical or otherwise) follow as a natural consequence of that separation.

Hopefully this proves to be of assistance to you.
 
Greetings.

This is definitely a tough subject, but I hope some of what I share with you will shed a little light.

God certainly does not want any of us to suffer in Hell. It’s contrary to what He calls us to, which is eternal happiness and union with Him in Heaven.

I am going to guess that you have a fine grasp of free will and the consequence of our choice to cooperate with God or choose against Him, but in case you don’t (or maybe just for those who may be lurking 😉 ) I’ll try to give the basic overview:
  1. God has given us the power of free will
  2. God respects the choices we make with our free will
  3. Our choice of rejecting God and His love demonstrates a desire to be separated from Him (and, similarly, accepting Him and cooperating with Him demonstrates a desire for union)
  4. Because God respects one’s choice to be separated from Him, Hell is the resulting consequence for those who have made that choice.
Your comment on having trouble accepting somebody experiencing fire for eternity is something I’ve heard several times. And, I think, it’s understandable given how immediate our contact with the physical world is. Physical pain is easy to understand and recall since we all have had very direct (and sometimes intense) experiences with it. However, I would ask you to think about your understanding of the pains of Hell. Physical pain is (or at least will be, as I’ll try to explain in a moment) an aspect of suffering for the damned humans, but it couldn’t be the essential suffering of Hell. Remember that the fallen angels are there, too, and they do not have bodies. As far as I understand, the essential pain of Hell is the permanent deprivation of the Beatific Vision , of the loss of the infinite truth, goodness, and beauty found only in God, which is what we are naturally made to desire.

This pain of loss is much more intense than any bodily injury could inflict, but is much more essential to the pains of Hell than bodily injuries.

But, please remember that God is the source of all goodness, joy, and pleasure. So if one chooses to separate himself from God, it follows that this separated existence be separated from these aspects as much as possible. We as humans are made to be body and soul together, so at the time of the Resurrection, when all are reunited to their bodies, it follows that the damned in their bodies are as far from any physical joy and pleasure (given what was said). Personally, I think fire is particularly appropriate here because fire purifies (like gold in the furnace), and can also be compared to the pains and trials we undergo in sanctification, so it would be all the more appropriate that the physical sufferings of the damned be actual fire, but obviously void of any of its purifying or sanctifying aspects.

Again, God desires none of us to suffer the pains of Hell, but because he respects our freedom to choose for or against Him, the pains and sufferings of the damned (physical or otherwise) follow as a natural consequence of that separation.

Hopefully this proves to be of assistance to you.
To burn someone for all eternity with physical fire is a malicious and spiteful act and there is no reason to think that physical fire is a natural consequence. There is nothing appropriate about it.

Of course i don’t see hell as a place but rather a state of being. It describes the relationship between the damed and God. their bodies are in a place, but hell is how they experience their spiritual state for all eternity. God wants to save them so why would he want to “burn” them for not obeying.
 
Like evil, hell is a privation of good. Its not a lake of fire anymore more than an apple is the origin of sin. There is no tree of knowledge. These are metaphors and analogies that people take literally. Fire is used to describe hell because fire is the most undesirable pain we can think of. We have no idea what the experience of hell is like in actual reality.
 
If a person repents while in hell, will He show His mercy and release that person from the pain?
Hello!

I really like this question because it opens up a lot of good discussion. Like a lot of good questions, I think this demand a good answer to be satisfying. And while davidv’s response of “Why would someone in hell do this?” is actually a fair reply all things considered, it doesn’t really satisfy if we don’t understand the will of those in Hell (which would certainly clear all of this up for you), so I’ll try my best to answer it.

I am a fan of Aquinas and his writings in the Summa Theologica, and he addresses the question of repentance and the will of the damned in his Supplement to the Summa, Question 98, Articles 1 and 2. Here is a link to an online, English-translated webpage of Q. 98 which I will be referencing.
(Emphases will be mine). He begins with objections, gives his reply, then answers the specific objections. Thus, a question you may have for me may already be addressed if you look at the article.

Whether every act of will in the damned is evil?

"…Now men who are damned will be obstinate even as the demons [Cf. I, 64, 2]. Further, as the will of the damned is in relation to evil, so is the will of the blessed in regard to good. But the blessed never have an evil will. Neither therefore have the damned any good will…

A twofold will may be considered in the damned, namely the deliberate will and the natural will. Their natural will is theirs not of themselves but of the Author of nature, Who gave nature this inclination which we call the natural will. Wherefore since nature remains in them, it follows that** the natural will in them can be good. But their deliberate will is theirs of themselves**, inasmuch as it is in their power to be inclined by their affections to this or that. This will is in them always evil: and this because they are completely turned away from the last end of a right will, nor can a will be good except it be directed to that same end. Hence even though they will some good, they do not will it well so that one be able to call their will good on that account."

As it turns out, the damned do have a form of repentance according to Aquinas, but not in the sense we might first consider:

Whether the damned repent of the evil they have done?

" A person may repent of sin in two ways: in one way directly, in another way indirectly. He repents of a sin directly who hates sin as such: and he repents indirectly who hates it on account of something connected with it, for instance punishment or something of that kind. Accordingly the wicked will not repent of their sins directly, because consent in the malice of sin will remain in them; but they will repent indirectly, inasmuch as they will suffer from the punishment inflicted on them for sin…

… The damned will wickedness, but shun punishment: and thus indirectly they repent of wickedness committed…

It will be possible for the damned to repent of their sins without turning their will away from sin, because in their sins they will shun, not what they heretofore desired, but something else, namely the punishment."

You may not be completely on board here yet, so luckily there is more to consider here. In the first of the two articles, Aquinas references the obsintance of the demons, and also noted how man will likewise be obstinate in sin. Here is a link to the previously referenced question.
This question gets pretty thick philosophically (which is either good or bad, depending on where you’re coming from), which is why I’m referencing it here last, and only a brief portion directly relevant to our discussion:

“It was Origen’s opinion [Peri Archon i. 6] that every will of the creature can by reason of free-will be inclined to good and evil; with the exception of the soul of Christ on account of the union of the Word. Such a statement deprives angels and saints of true beatitude, because everlasting stability is of the very nature of true beatitude; hence it is termed “life everlasting.” It is also contrary to the authority of Sacred Scripture, which declares that demons and wicked men shall be sent “into everlasting punishment,” and the good brought “into everlasting life.” Consequently such an opinion must be considered erroneous; while according to Catholic Faith, it must be held firmly both that the will of the good angels is confirmed in good, and that the will of the demons is obstinate in evil.”

Coming at it from another viewpoint here, it isn’t too much of a stretch to see that man’s obstinance in willing evil post-damnation is reasonable, even if it isn’t understood in its entirety. If we made the supposition that made could repent directly after death, what kind of conclusions can you draw about our life here on Earth? Effectively, our test here on Earth is ultimately meaningless in deciding whether or not to choose God, because if we take a detour to Hell, the pains will eventually just coerce us into direct repentance. Thus, while virtue and holiness would certainly be nice things to cultivate while alive, one could easily argue that is not essential to our eternal beatitude because our test on Earth doesn’t have any permanent negative consequence. “Who cares about being good on Earth? We’ll just choose God at some point in Hell anyway.” These kinds of conclusions are very monstrous (but entirely acceptable) if we take the premise that direct repentance is possible in Hell.

There is certainly more to discuss on this subject, but I hope it helps! As to IWantGod, I’ll try answering you posts tomorrow if I have time!
 
Thus, while virtue and holiness would certainly be nice things to cultivate while alive, one could easily argue that is not essential to our eternal beatitude because our test on Earth doesn’t have any permanent negative consequence. “Who cares about being good on Earth? We’ll just choose God at some point in Hell anyway.” These kinds of conclusions are very monstrous (but entirely acceptable) if we take the premise that direct repentance is possible in Hell.
I heard that some in the Eastern Orthodox church quoting St. Silouan, adhere to the possibility that a person on earth, or even in heaven, could pray a person out of hell. As St. Silouan notes, if you were in heaven and saw someone burning in hell, it would be difficult for you to bear that. You must pray for that person.
Heaven is a place of love, joy and happiness. How could you be happy if you were in heaven, and looked down and saw that your mother or other dear relative or friend was burning in hell?
 
I heard that some in the Eastern Orthodox church quoting St. Silouan, adhere to the possibility that a person on earth, or even in heaven, could pray a person out of hell. As St. Silouan notes, if you were in heaven and saw someone burning in hell, it would be difficult for you to bear that. You must pray for that person.
Heaven is a place of love, joy and happiness. How could you be happy if you were in heaven, and looked down and saw that your mother or other dear relative or friend was burning in hell?
You will realize the truth, they are no-longer your mother and father. What do i mean by this? There is a reason why we as Christian are against false idol worship, and that includes the worshiping of human beings above God. This does not simply mean thinking of them too highly or loving them beyond what is commanded. It is the act of thinking of them as being identical to the nature of God. From a Christian standpoint, the idea that created being is by its intrinsic nature God is ontologically not true; it is a falsehood and therefore a sin. The sin is seeing humanity and treating them as the source of the good of what they are. This is a hard thing to do, because in our limited nature we do not normally distinguish the the good we see in humans from the natural behavior of the created essence of beings.

Its not a baseless arbitrary concept. But it is a difficult truth to accept from an emotional and finite standpoint

All the good of us is from God. We are not the good of ourselves. When we choose a good action, the reason it is good is not because of our own natures. The power is from God. The Nature of God’s existence gives us being. Only God is intrinsically Good. Our being is contingently good only by analogy. This essentially means that we do no Good without the nature and power of God which is another way of saying we do no existence without God. God gives us the good. And since our human nature is a creation of God then everything we love about humans is not ontologically identical to them. What we find in human beings is an analogous representation of God; (we are created in his image) and we perceive indirectly through that created nature what the finite experience points to - the infinite living transcendent nature of God. If we worship the image, then we are idol worshiping and this behavior will not lead us to the beatific vision. Thats why it is a sin, because it does not lead us to heaven.

So, God created a finite analogous reflection or representation of himself as an artistic expression (humans) and is preserving their being in the existence we call Good (God). A human existentially has its being in the creative eternal expression of God which is encompassed with love, and so our loyalty to the good through our actions cannot go ignored since our very soul depends on the good for its existential fulfillment. So in the end we never truly lose the good of people to hell because our very being and natures are absolutely dependent on the nature and existence of the good (God). This is why there is no weeping in heaven.
 
You will realize the truth, they are no-longer in union with the good that you love. What do i mean by this? There is a reason why we as Christian are against false idol worship, and that includes the worshiping of human beings above God. This does not simply mean thinking of them too highly or loving them beyond what is commanded. It is the act of thinking of them as being identical to the nature of God. From a Christian standpoint, the idea that a created being is by its intrinsic nature God is ontologically not true; it is a falsehood and therefore a sin. The sin is seeing humanity and treating them as the source of the good of what they are. This is a hard thing not to do, because in our limited nature we do not normally distinguish the the good we see in humans from the natural behavior of the created essence of beings.

Its not a baseless arbitrary concept. But it is a difficult truth to accept from an emotional and finite standpoint

All the good of us is from God. We are not the good of ourselves. When we choose a good action, the reason it is good is not because of our own natures. The power is from God. The Nature of God’s existence gives us being. Only God is intrinsically Good. Our being is contingently good and only good by analogy. This essentially means that we do no Good without the nature and power of God which is another way of saying we do no existence without God. God gives us the good. And since our human nature is a creation of God then everything we love about humans is not ontologically identical to them. What we find in human beings is an analogous representation of God; (we are created in his image) and we perceive indirectly through that created nature what the finite experience points to - the infinite living transcendent nature of God. If we worship the image of God, then we are idol worshiping and this behavior will not lead us to the beatific vision because the image of God is not God. Thats why it is a sin, because it does not lead us to heaven.

So, God created a finite analogous reflection or representation of himself as an artistic expression (humans) and is preserving their being in the existence we call Good (God). A human existentially has its being in the creative eternal expression of God which is encompassed with love, and so our loyalty to the good through our actions cannot go on ignored since our very soul depends on the good for its existential fulfillment. So in the end we never truly lose the good of people to hell because our very being and natures are absolutely dependent on the nature and existence of the good (God) for its value. This is why there is no weeping in heaven.

There is only one God. One good.
 
This is why there is no weeping in heaven.
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But if someone in heaven looks down and sees her dear, much loved mother suffering horribly in eternal hellfire because, say, she had committed a mortal sin of missing Mass on a Sunday, wouldn’t that person weep for her mother?
 
But if someone in heaven looks down and sees her dear, much loved mother suffering horribly in eternal hellfire because, say, she had committed a mortal sin of missing Mass on a Sunday, wouldn’t that person weep for her mother?
I doubt that.
I think it more likely thatone could peer into hell and understand the justice of God.
Each may be in torment, but it is of their choosing and desire.
 
Because he was sorry for what he had done.
Once in hell, there is no changing ones mind.
No one is sorry.

That is not to say no regret. They will regret.
But would also make the same choices if they could do them again.

Hell is final unrepentance that they will not undo.
 
This is why there is no weeping in heaven.
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I think it more likely thatone could peer into hell and understand the justice of God.
Each may be in torment, but it is of their choosing and desire.
Many people have a deep love for their mother and feel very close to her. they realize the many sacrifices that their mother has made for her and for her six brothers and sisters and the strong love that their mother had for them throughout their lives. They know that their mother as a wonderful woman,who unfortunately made one mistake before she died, in that she missed a Mass on a Sunday and thereby committed a mortal sin. To look down from heaven with the enormous love that a person has for her mother, and to see her mother burning horribly with excruciating pain in hellfire would cause such a person to weep, especially since she knows what a good person her mother had been. IMHO, there will be weeping at such a terrible sight.
 
Many people have a deep love for their mother and feel very close to her. they realize the many sacrifices that their mother has made for her and for her six brothers and sisters and the strong love that their mother had for them throughout their lives. They know that their mother as a wonderful woman,who unfortunately made one mistake before she died, in that she missed a Mass on a Sunday and thereby committed a mortal sin. To look down from heaven with the enormous love that a person has for her mother, and to see her mother burning horribly with excruciating pain in hellfire would cause such a person to weep, especially since she knows what a good person her mother had been. IMHO, there will be weeping at such a terrible sight.
The good of the mother is from God. There will be no weeping or idol worshiping because you will realize that good is God and there is no good without him. Salvation is a completely merciful act.
 
Salvation is a completely merciful act. It is only our deluded sense of grandeur that makes us think that God owes us something. In reality it is God that gives us the good of ourselves and that is what you ought to love - the good of God. That is why it says in scripture you must choose to love God above all humans because only through the grace of God can we love perfectly.
 
To look down from heaven with the enormous love that a person has for her mother, and to see her mother burning horribly with excruciating pain in hellfire would cause such a person to weep, especially since she knows what a good person her mother had been. IMHO, there will be weeping at such a terrible sight.
It they were good people, they would not choose hell.
 
It is foolishness to go by the literal meaning of the verses in this matter and presume that there is fire,worm,gnashing of teeth etc. in hell.These are obviously mentioned only to mean that there will be extreme punishment,dirty conditions and absence of love in hell.Some points in this regard:
1.The type of suffering in hell is absolutely unimaginable to human beings who are accustomed only to the type of suffering here.
2. Though, we believe in 'resurrection of the body ’ ,Christ’s resurrected body even bore the marks of the wounds,Mary is believed to have gone to heaven in the earthly body etc. ,it is clear that the resurrected body will not have any resemblance to our earthly body (skin,bone,flesh,lungs ,blood,stomach etc. )
2.However there will be sensation and feeling so as to see God and enjoy the happiness in heaven or to feel suffering and despair in hell.
3.Even a child knows that worm and fire can’t coexist . Clear that they are mentioned only symbolically. Otherwise we have to presume that either the worms are of a special type capable of withstanding high temperature or the fire is so mild as not to harm even worms (which we know are more sensitive to heat than humans).
4.It is taught that the biggest suffering in hell is the feeling that one is eternally away from God.This is disputable because only those who rejects God willingly, go to hell.Why should they suddenly feel an affinity to God on reaching hell and feel depair that they are missing God?

In short my advice is that don’t think much about the type of punishment in hell .It is a great secret and much ,much beyond human intelligence. There is a ray of hope in this thinking.Just as we presume that Jesus will show his infinite mercy to good people of other religions also and will not send them for etrnal punishment in hell , he may show mercy to bad people as well.They may not be cast into the lake of fire for eternal period for the mistake committed during a very short period of stay in the world.To put it in plain words fire ,worms,gnashing of teeth etc.were used only to frighten them and to be good
people .Since the Israel people were not accustomed to biting cold and extreme suffering due to cold, it did not find a place as a means of inflecting suffering in hell. Only commonly known frightening agents name mentioned, that’s all.
 
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