Could if be possible that everyone is destined for heaven?

[frankblahnik]

Could it be possible that within everyone there is a false self and a true self, and at the end of time our false selves are sent to hell and our true selves are sent to heaven? Maybe purgatory is the seperation of the selves, and those who have lived primarily from their true self will feel less pain then those who lived primarily from their false selves. Maybe for the very holy there will be hardly no pain in purgatory, and for the very unholy there will be a lot of pain, and they will hardly recognize the part of them that goes to heaven because they never got to know their true self here on earth. Maybe…

What do you think?

 

[P10]

I am also intrigued by this question, and although I am not in a position to offer an approach such as the one above, nevertheless the notion of Universal Salvation is quite attractive
to me.
I read Scripture verses like these:
“For as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive.” There are many, many more verses like this one which require just as much explaining and interpretation as the ones that seem to indicate that some, even the vast majority, will not be saved.

I think the question is interesting and I, for one, am willing to pursue it with others in this forum. I look forward to the responses which may follow.

 

[teachccd]

Could it be possible that within everyone there is a false self and a true self, and at the end of time our false selves are sent to hell and our true selves are sent to heaven? Maybe purgatory is the seperation of the selves, and those who have lived primarily from their true self will feel less pain then those who lived primarily from their false selves. Maybe for the very holy there will be hardly no pain in purgatory, and for the very unholy there will be a lot of pain, and they will hardly recognize the part of them that goes to heaven because they never got to know their true self here on earth. Maybe…

What do you think?

I know that the Church teaches that we are a body/soul unity. At the moment of death, following our Particular Judgment, our soul either goes to heaven or hell. If there remains any attachment to sin then purgatory will serve as our temporal punishment for our sins. We have only one soul and it goes to only one place. We are only a single self with our soul animating the body in this life and in the next. Our choices that we make constitute the choices of our entire self and cannot be split. If we are true to God and ourself then we will live with Him in eternity, if not then we will be eternally separated from Him. I have yet to find in Scripture or Church writings anything to substantiate what you propose.

Anyway, that’s what I think and what the Church teaches…teachccd

 

[puzzleannie]

Could it be possible that within everyone there is a false self and a true self, and at the end of time our false selves are sent to hell and our true selves are sent to heaven? What do you think?

since you ask, no I think nothing of the kind because there is no room for such an idea in Catholic theology

 

[bilop]

Quite simply, no.

St. Matthew, Ch. 25

31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

St. Matthew, Ch. 7

21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. 24 Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these my words, and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand, 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof.

God Bless

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Could it be possible that within everyone there is a false self and a true self, and at the end of time our false selves are sent to hell and our true selves are sent to heaven? Maybe purgatory is the seperation of the selves, and those who have lived primarily from their true self will feel less pain then those who lived primarily from their false selves. Maybe for the very holy there will be hardly no pain in purgatory, and for the very unholy there will be a lot of pain, and they will hardly recognize the part of them that goes to heaven because they never got to know their true self here on earth. Maybe…

What do you think?

To be perfectly honest, I always thought that there was no Hell. Only Heaven.

"Oh! But then that means we can do whatever we want without worrying about the consequences!"

Well, yeah, that may happen, but who really knows if it truly exists? I wouldn’t be surprised when we die, our lives flash before our eyes; emphasis is put on the “sinful” acts we committed. We have to remember that a little guilt never hurt.

But seriously, I really believe that we all go Heaven.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[Jefe_Wyatt]

An interesting idea. I’m always happy to hear about people who don’t believe in Hell, because for me Hell is one of the greatest barriers to believing in a benevolent god.

As has been said, that idea doesn’t really exist at all in Christianity. It’s a thought I’ve never heard before, but I certainly don’t believe that’s what’s going to happen.

 

[Lujack]

I cannot agree with you on the part about false selves and true selves; I don’t see any support for that in Scripture.

An empty Hell, however, is certainly possible. My own religion teacher indicated that not only is this possible, but all Catholics should pray that this is the case. I tend to agree.

 

[bilop]

An empty Hell, however, is certainly possible. My own religion teacher indicated that not only is this possible, but all Catholics should pray that this is the case. I tend to agree.

Read the Gospels. Jesus is quite clear on this. He talks about Hell much more than Heaven. Specifically:

St. Luke Ch. 13

23 And a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: 24 Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able. 25 But when the master of the house shall be gone in, and shall shut the door, you shall begin to stand without, and knock at the door, saying: Lord, open to us. And he answering, shall say to you: I know you not, whence you are.

26 Then you shall begin to say: We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 And he shall say to you: I know you not, whence you are: depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

St. Matthew Ch. 7

13 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. 14 How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

To say Hell is empty is to say Jesus lied to us. It’s not consistent with Scripture or Catholic theology.

We also have the revelations of the Saints, e.g. St. Faustina and St. John Bosco, who saw thousands falling into hell.

To say hell could be empty is to lead people astray. You’re telling them “don’t worry about your sins, don’t worry about repenting and seeking absolution”.

By doing this you could cause people to wind up in Hell. I wouldn’t want this on my soul when I face my judgement.

God Bless

 

[teachccd]

Read the Gospels. Jesus is quite clear on this. He talks about Hell much more than Heaven. Specifically:

St. Luke Ch. 13

St. Matthew Ch. 7

To say Hell is empty is to say Jesus lied to us. It’s not consistent with Scripture or Catholic theology.

We also have the revelations of the Saints, e.g. St. Faustina and St. John Bosco, who saw thousands falling into hell.

To say hell could be empty is to lead people astray. You’re telling them “don’t worry about your sins, don’t worry about repenting and seeking absolution”.

By doing this you could cause people to wind up in Hell. I wouldn’t want this on my soul when I face my judgement.

God Bless

The Church officially teaches that there is indeed a hell. But the Church remains silent as to whether there are any souls residing there. So, we are free to believe as we wish as to whether or not hell is empty. We are not required to believe any private revelations.

Now that being said, I would strongly urge my brothers and sisters to follow the teachings of Christ and know that He was very clear that if we turn away from Him that we will go to hell. We should never take a lukewarm stance on our belief that hell is a real destination for those who turn from God. So is there one person in hell? Are there billions of souls in hell? No one answered that question as of yet, not even the Catholic Church. But, so as not to take this lightly, consider that you may be the first one there even if hell is now empty …God Bless…teachccd

 

[bilop]

The Church officially teaches that there is indeed a hell. But the Church remains silent as to whether there are any souls residing there. So, we are free to believe as we wish as to whether or not hell is empty. We are not required to believe any private revelations.
teachccd

While this is technically correct, it goes against 2000 years of Christian Theology, and the direct plain text of the Gospels to hold that Hell is empty.

It may be an allowable belief, but not a very reasonable one.

God Bless

 

[P10]

I also disagree with any kind of ‘two selves’ notion as outlined in the OP. It is neither biblical, nor in keeping with Church teaching.

However, I invite you to consider the implications of the truth that “the Son of man did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.” I am resisting the temptation to start listing verses (otherwise we should move this to the Scripture forum).

I offer this one Scripture passage comparing Adam and Christ:
Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. For just as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners,so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. (Rom. 5.12f)
Please note that the persons referred to are identical in both. There is no change in the nomenclature in the original Greek.

Also, I will note a few lines taken from the Church’s Eucharistic Prayers I-IV.

“Lord by your cross and resurrection you have set us free, you are the Savior of the world.”
“Remember our brothers and sisters who have gone to their rest, bring them and all the departed into the light of your presence.”
“Lord may this sacrifice, which has made our peace with you, advance the peace and salvation of all the world.”
“…we offer you his body and blood, the acceptable sacrifice which brings salvation to the whole world.”
“Remember those who have died in the peace of Christ, and all the dead whose faith is known to you alone.”

Now, I would be the first one to say that there are also parts of the Eucharistic prayer that clearly say, “Save us from final damnation, etc.” (final may not be the same as everlasting damnation)

Please don’t assume that by presenting these points that I am an advocate of universal salvation, I am merely inviting the conversation. This subject is discussed among faithful Catholic theologians and philosophers without censure from the Holy See.

We learned from Christ that suffering has meaning, that suffering can be redemptive - is it possible that our Savior has given meaning and purpose to all suffering as a result of his sanctifying it? If not, then the vast majority of humanity, through their own sinful choices, are sent to suffer eternally; in agony age after age without hope of relief, in order to satisfy the justice of God. Although their time on earth was like yesterday when it is past, their suffering will be everlasting without further opportunity to repent.

That brings up one last point. The passages quoted above from the Gospel of Matthew talk about people going away into everlasting punishment. I would like to suggest that some work needs to be done in order to discover how the biblical writers used this term ‘everlasting’. I have some ideas from my own investigation, but I invite others to contribute on this. I have no doubt that sinners will be punished - justice demands it. But I am willing to ask: For how long? and could it be redemptive?

 

[Lujack]

The Church officially teaches that there is indeed a hell. But the Church remains silent as to whether there are any souls residing there. So, we are free to believe as we wish as to whether or not hell is empty. We are not required to believe any private revelations.

Now that being said, I would strongly urge my brothers and sisters to follow the teachings of Christ and know that He was very clear that if we turn away from Him that we will go to hell. We should never take a lukewarm stance on our belief that hell is a real destination for those who turn from God. So is there one person in hell? Are there billions of souls in hell? No one answered that question as of yet, not even the Catholic Church. But, so as not to take this lightly, consider that you may be the first one there even if hell is now empty …God Bless…teachccd

I agree with you that we are not meant to take a lukewarm stance on Hell being a real destination, but if it is a possibility that Hell is empty, it would then become our duty to pray that this is the case, correct?

If all can be saved, we should be praying that all are saved. I know that is among my prayers at every Mass.

 

[bilop]

If all can be saved, we should be praying that all are saved. I know that is among my prayers at every Mass.

You should pray that all repent of their sins, and accept Jesus Christ before their deaths.

God Bless

 

[Lujack]

You should pray that all repent of their sins, and accept Jesus Christ before their deaths.

God Bless

Yes, obviously, but we know there are those who died without that being the case. We know that there are those who died before Christ’s birth, or died in Central America in 1473, or died in China without knowing Christ. Isn’t our duty to pray that they have been saved by God’s mercy as well? If it is a possibility, we must surely hope that these souls, too, have been saved.

 

[frankblahnik]

Yes, obviously, but we know there are those who died without that being the case. We know that there are those who died before Christ’s birth, or died in Central America in 1473, or died in China without knowing Christ. Isn’t our duty to pray that they have been saved by God’s mercy as well? If it is a possibility, we must surely hope that these souls, too, have been saved.

Yes, and we pray for those who are ecspecially in need of Gods mercy. Gods mercy surpasses all human understanding. Jesus died on the cross for us all…ecspecially those in most need of Gods mercy. Who are we to deny Jesus the power and glory to save all?

A man commits murder because his parents raised him wrong…His parents raised him wrong because they were raised wrong by their parents and so on and so on…Can’t all sin be traced back to the original sin of Adam? Jesus came and reversed the sin of Adam? …My mind cannot wrap itself around the idea of all being saved…but my heart can.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

 

[P10]

“Wherefore God has highly exalted him and given him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Phil.2.9-11)

When every knee bends and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, this is not a force, coerced, unbelieving confession of his Lordship. It is the same action cited for heavenly beings, as it is for earthly beings, as it is for those under the earth.

As was just said in the previous post, who are we to deny the power and glory of Jesus to save the whole world? Especially if that was his intent. It certainly seems from this passage that Heaven, Earth and ‘Under Earth’ will someday bow in worship and call him their Lord - to the glory of God the Father.

 

[frankblahnik]

Nobody seems to like the idea of false self going to hell true self going to heaven notion.

And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.

Maybe we all have a sheep and a goat… :whacky:

 

[teachccd]

I agree with you that we are not meant to take a lukewarm stance on Hell being a real destination, but if it is a possibility that Hell is empty, it would then become our duty to pray that this is the case, correct?

If all can be saved, we should be praying that all are saved. I know that is among my prayers at every Mass.

Absolutely! Remember that I NEVER said that there is no one in hell nor that I believe that there is no one in hell. I was citing what the Catholic Church teaches about who is in hell. And on this the Church remains silent…Keep up the prayers,especially for me…God Bless…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

While this is technically correct, it goes against 2000 years of Christian Theology, and the direct plain text of the Gospels to hold that Hell is empty.

It may be an allowable belief, but not a very reasonable one.

God Bless

Where in Scripture does it state WHO is in hell?? Even Judas is not explicitly condemned to eternal damnation and the Church has no comment as to his fate. If something is “technically correct” then it is correct. Now, what we as Christians hold in our beliefs as to those being in hell is another story. I simply stated that the Catholic Church never refers to anyone in hell. If you think that the Church is unreasonable for remaining silent in this area then you need to take it up with them…God Bless…teachccd