Could Jesus have read the old testament and pretended to be the messiah?

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Rutherford2 said:
@Quis_UtDeus As Matt Dillahunty would have asked, “where is your proof? Your bible?”
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We can start by taking the gospels and epistles as simply first century documents attesting to something without needing to bump them up to scripture-status. They are first century documents, after all (most of them), and they are attesting to something. The fact that we decided to include them in our canon of scripture doesn’t discount their origins.
 
The Church could of course impoverish itself as an institution, decimate its ability to spread the gospel and run charitable organizations and have spaces of worship, and sell of the works of faith and art that belong to Christianity as a whole to the highest consumerist bidder, but what would be the point? The Church doesn’t see these works of art as being about their monetary value.

Certainly there have been corrupt bishops and pppes who did value wealth more than their office, but I reject the notion that the Church should sell everything off for a variety of reasons.

But really, that should be a separate topic.
 
Rutherford2 said:
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Gorgias:
How do atheists know that there is no God?
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An atheist will respond, “We know there is no God because there is no scientific proof that God exist”.
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The same logic some materialists use to deny that they think at all. Many atheists confuse “falsifiably testable” as being equivalent with arguments from empiricism and being the only valid way to obtain knowledge.
 
What a sneaky guy. 🙂

To arrange, before he was born in Bethlehem, to be born from a virgin of the Tribe of Judah and the House of David in her own right, but to also have a foster dad who was descended from the royal line, except you knew it wasn’t his bio dad, because of God’s curse against Jehoiachin.
(Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot,
an object no one wants?
Why will he and his children be hurled out,
cast into a land they do not know?
29 O land, land, land,
hear the word of the LORD!
30 This is what the LORD says:
“Record this man as if childless,
a man who will not prosper in his lifetime,
for none of his offspring will prosper,
none will sit on the throne of David
or rule anymore in Judah.”)
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Then, after he was born, he sneakily arranged for his family to have to flee to Egypt, and have the children massacred, so he could fulfill two more prophecies. But when we go back, let’s go live in Nazareth, so we can fulfill another prophecy.

In the meantime, he roped in John the Baptist to be his messenger to prepare the way-- another prophecy down.

He’d be preceded by Elijah-- let’s go ahead and bring in Moses while we’re at it, just for kicks.

Let’s be a prophet. Miracles are easy-peasy. Oh, and get someone to call him the Son of God AND get someone to call him King. That happens a hundred times a day, so it’s no big deal. Speaking in parables is annoying, but you gotta do what you gotta do to get those checkboxes filled. Galilee’s a boring place, but if the Messiah has to bring light to it— well, okay. Praying for your enemies and consoling the broken-hearted is annoying, too-- but if the Psalms say it, what can you do? Being praised by little children is cute, though, as long as they’ve washed their hands and faces first.

Oh, wait. Whose idea was it to be a Messiah that wasn’t their idea of a Messiah-- a conqueror who will restore their kingdom-- but was God’s idea of a Messiah-- a suffering servant. Let’s be rejected by your own people. Let’s be betrayed. And the price of your betrayal used to buy a potter’s field. And be falsely accused, but not say anything to your accusers. And be spat and struck. And be hated without cause. And crucified with criminals. And given vinegar to drink. And have your hands and feet pierced. Did we already say mocked and ridiculed? And have people gamble for your clothes. But at least they wouldn’t break his bones. And you’d die as a sacrifice for sin. And they’d bury him with the rich when they were done. But it wouldn’t really matter, because you’d just resurrect from the dead after a bit. And then ascend to heaven. Hey, God, is anyone sitting at your right hand, because I kind of planned on sitting there when I got there?

He totally tricked so many people into following him, that his followers all chose to die for their belief rather than admit, “You know, I was so wrong. I was tricked.” And then for the next 300 years, while it was illegal to follow him, people continued to choose icky, painful, gruesome deaths. People were so gullible back then…

Yep. Sneaky guy, Jesus. 🙂
 
Jesus was really only proclaimed the Messiah, the Son Of God after the Resurrection.
Before that, as a human walking the earth, Jesus was perhaps thought a prophet, teacher,
Jesus did all He could to attribute everything to God the Father. Jesus took none and accepted no accolades

The Jews were expecting a Messiah that was war like and would lead them to reclaim their country and usher in the kingdom of God . Their way of thinking was apocalyptic. They were all expecting the end times
 
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www.learnreligions.com

47 Prophecies of the Messiah Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

Take a look at 47 Old Testament prophecies about Jesus that prove he is the promised Messiah of Israel through their fulfillment in the New Testament.
www.learnreligions.com www.learnreligions.com

“### A Statistical Improbability

Some Bible scholars suggest there are more than 300 prophetic Scriptures completed in the life of Jesus. Circumstances such as his birthplace, lineage, and method of execution were beyond his control and could not have been accidentally or deliberately fulfilled.

In the book Science Speaks , Peter Stoner and Robert Newman discuss the statistical improbability of one man, whether accidentally or deliberately, fulfilling just eight of the prophecies Jesus fulfilled.

The chance of this happening, they say, is 1 in 1017 power. Stoner gives an illustration that helps visualize the magnitude of such odds:
Suppose that we take 1017 silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man, from their day to the present time, providing they wrote using their own wisdom.
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The mathematical improbability of 300, or 44, or even just eight fulfilled prophesies of Jesus stands as evidence to his messiahship.”
 
mrsdizzyd said:
Motive is missing. Additionally, it would have required a lot of other people coordinating and colluding with him up to and including the Romans and the various Jewish sects who had no reason to want him to be the messiah. What would have been their motive? He wasn’t wealthy. They did not achieve fame and fortune. Almost all of his notable followers were tortured and killed.

There is no motive to fake it. Nothing to be gained in this life or the next. This was all the product of belief, personal experience, and eyewitness accounts.
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He wouldn’t have needed a motive if he was self delusional and himself believed he was the Messiah although he wasn’t…

CS Lewis covered that though, and showed it can’t have been.
 
If Jesus had done this, why would He have come as a “Lamb” rather than a “Lion”? In other words, why not claim to be the earthly political Messiah that the Zealots were looking for?
 
No, it isn’t possible that Jesus read the OT and pretended to be the Messiah.

He was and is the Messiah, the Son of God.
 
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Roseeurekacross said:
The Jews were expecting a Messiah that was war like and would lead them to reclaim their country and usher in the kingdom of God .
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This. Jews at the time were expecting a military leader, so if Jesus had wanted to fulfill those expectations he would have acted as a Mohammed six centuries earlier.
 
Going through the scourging and then the crucifixion would be a bit much to make a pretending scenario seem legitimate.
 
I suppose the writers of the New Testement could have adapted the life of Jesus to fit around the OT. I know that Matthew certainly signposts it at times.

Only criticism is that Jesus would certainly be explicitly mentioned as the Son of God. This is only really done in John.
 
My understanding is that there are allusions to being the Son of God (e.g. I Am) but John explicitly states it. I know John was written primarily for Gentiles so maybe this was why it had o be spelled out for us. We wouldn’t have got the references that a Jewish audience would have instantly recognised.
 
Do you understand anything of low and high Christology. I am asking to know where to point my answer 🕊️

John was written when the remnant Jews and Jewish Christians were exiled after the rebellion that destroyed Israel and the temple. Like wrote specifically for the Gentiles.

John’s audience was diaspora Jews, gentiles and Greeks, who were in the Jesus movement
 
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Yeah, He could have. May very well have been the case too. But we know that’s not true, because of the Resurrection which proved He is the long awaited Messiah.
 
Which atheist has offered to die for you? To die for anything? This argument seems to ignore Christ’s prophesies which were not in the Old Testament.
 
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