Could someone show me?

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ALLFORHIM

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Hi,
Could someone show which council/document it says that noone can be saved outside the RCC?

And isnt there something in Vatican II that says someone outside the CC can be saved?

Could you explain the change?

Thanks:D
 
Hi,
Could someone show which council/document it says that noone can be saved outside the RCC?

And isnt there something in Vatican II that says someone outside the CC can be saved?

Could you explain the change?

Thanks:D
No real change. At the time "no Salvation outside the church was first said there were no protestants.

The Catholic Church still maintains that if you are in heaven you will be Catholic and it will have come through the Catholic Church in ways unknown to us.
 
No real change. At the time "no Salvation outside the church was first said there were no protestants.
Well Im sure there were those that didnt believe in the RCC.
The council of Trent confirmed all that was said before it
This is from the website that was given to me above:
The infallible Council of Trent (1545-1563) besides condemning and excommunicating Protestants, it also reiterated everything that was declared in previous Councils proclaiming: “…our catholic faith, without which is impossible to please God…”
Pope Pius IV (1559-1565), one of the popes of the Council of Trent:”… This true Catholic faith, outside of which no one can be saved…” (Profession of faith of the Bull “Iniunctum nobis”, 1564)
So the Council of Trent upheld everything that was said already and Trent WAS in response to prots so—
The Catholic Church still maintains that if you are in heaven you will be Catholic and it will have come through the Catholic Church in ways unknown to us.
By this do you mean universal church and not specifically the RCC?:confused:
 
Well Im sure there were those that didnt believe in the RCC.
The council of Trent confirmed all that was said before it
This is from the website that was given to me above:

So the Council of Trent upheld everything that was said already and Trent WAS in response to prots so—
By this do you mean universal church and not specifically the RCC?:confused:
The Catholic Church (katholicos) means the universal church. Catholic was first recorded as being used around 100 AD.
 
I don’t know that the website given expresses the official teaching of the Catholic Church.

Here are some links which might be of help.

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403sbs.asp
Can non Christians be saved

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0405frs.asp
Salvation Outside the Church

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
 
I don’t know that the website given expresses the official teaching of the Catholic Church.

Here are some links which might be of help.

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403sbs.asp
Can non Christians be saved

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0405frs.asp
Salvation Outside the Church

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
Thank you:thumbsup:
 
The Catholic Church (katholicos) means the universal church. Catholic was first recorded as being used around 100 AD.
Im sorry I must be dense and am not following what you are trying to say here:o

Are you trying to connect the universal church with RCC?
 
Im sorry I must be dense and am not following what you are trying to say here:o

Are you trying to connect the universal church with RCC?
Yes. The Catholic Church is the universal church. The RCC is the Latin rite.
 
Here’s some, but keep in mind there are many more.

Pope Saint Gregory the Great (A.D. 590 - 604): “Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.” (Moralia)

**Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 - 1216): **“With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423)

**Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence: **“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church” (“Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra).

Saint Robert Bellarmine (died A.D. 1621): “Outside the Church there is no salvation…therefore in the symbol [Apostles Creed] we join together the Church with the remission of sins: `I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins’…For this reason the Church is compared with the ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church.” (De Sacramento Baptismi)

**Pope Gregory XVI: **“Finally some of these misguided people attempt to persuade themselves and others that men are not saved only in the Catholic religion, but that even heretics may attain eternal life… You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation… Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise St. Gregory the Great who expressly testifies that THIS IS INDEED THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. He says: ‘The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.’ Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of Lateran IV, these things are written: ‘There is one universal Church of all the faithful outside of which no one is saved.’ Finally the same dogma is also expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use, but also that which… other Eastern Catholics use. We did not mention these selected testimonies because We thought you were ignorant of that article of faith and in need of Our instruction. Far be it from Us to have such an absurd and insulting suspicion about you. But We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies” (Summo Iugiter Studio, May 27, 1832).

Pope Gregory XVI: “With the admonition of the apostle that ‘there is one God, one faith, one baptism’ (Eph. 4:5) may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that ‘those who are not with Christ are against Him,’ (Lk. 11:23) and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore, ‘without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate’ [Athanasian Creed] (Mirari Vos (# 13), Aug. 15, 1832).

Saint Ambrose (died A.D. 397): “Where Peter is therefore, there is the Church. Where the Church is there is not death but life eternal. …Although many call themselves Christians, they usurp the name and do not have the reward.” (The Fathers of the Church)

Saint Jerome (died A.D. 420): “As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is, with the Chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. …This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. …And as for heretics, I have never spared them; on the contrary, I have seen to it in every possible way that the Church’s enemies are also my enemies.” (Manual of Patrology and History of Theology)

Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430): “No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)

**Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533): **“Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Enchiridion Patristicum)

continue
 
There is much falsehood on this thread. This is the dogmatic teaching of the Church:

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the “eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” - Pope Eugene IV, 11th Session of the Council of Florence.

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” - Fourth Lateran Council

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” - Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam

“The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation… Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.” - Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos

This teaching is dogmatic, infallible, and irreformable. It has not, cannot, and will not change. Every subsequent statement of the magisterium must be interpreted in the light of this teaching.
 
Contunuation…

**St. Bede the Venerable (died A.D. 735): **“Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside.” (Hexaemeron)

Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274): “There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church.” (Summa Theologiae)

**Saint Peter Canisius (died A.D. 1597): **“Outside of this communion - as outside of the ark of Noah - there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members…for the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother.” (Catechismi Latini et Germanici)

**Pope Leo XII (A.D. 1823 - 1829): **“We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. …For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.’” (Encyclical, Ubi Primum)

Council of Florence “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic Faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity … This is the Catholic Faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, session 8, November 22, 1439)

**Pope Gregory XVI (AD 1831 – 1846) **“Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care”. (Mirari Vos).

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 - 1846): “It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved.” (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 - 1878): “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

**Pope Leo XIII ** “It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and the Rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members … By divine faith we hold one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and … this is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church.” ( Ubi Primum, May 5, 1824; paragraph 14)

**Pope Leo XIII (A.D. 1878 - 1903): **“This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church.” (Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus)

“He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God.” (Encyclical, Sapientiae Christianae)

Pope Saint Pius X (A.D. 1903 - 1914): “It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation.” (Encyclical, Jucunda Sane)

**Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 - 1922): **“Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

**Pope Pius XI (A.D. 1922 - 1939): **“The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. …Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.” (Encyclical, Mortalium Animos)

**Pope Pius XII (Humani Generis): **“Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the Sources of Revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation.”

**Fouth Latern Council: **"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved. (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

**Pope Boniface: **"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
 
I don’t know that the website given expresses the official teaching of the Catholic Church.

Here are some links which might be of help.

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403sbs.asp
Can non Christians be saved

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0405frs.asp
Salvation Outside the Church

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
It would be a serious mistake to interpret this teaching outside of the light of Sacred Tradition.

The only sense in which other Churches and ecclesial communities can be understood to be “instruments of salvation” is if its members receive the sacraments while being innocently prevented from joining explicit communion with the Catholic Church. For example, an infant can be saved by receiving baptism in a protestant Church. He is incoporated into the Catholic Church until he severs himself from it through the sins of heresy or schism.
 
Yes. The Catholic Church is the universal church. The RCC is the Latin rite.
This idea has been condemned by Pope Pius XII:

*“Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the Sources of Revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith.” *- Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis

The Roman Catholic Church (ie. the Church in communion with the Pope) is the same Church Christ founded on Blessed Peter. Outside of it, there is no salvation.
 
This idea has been condemned by Pope Pius XII:

“Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the Sources of Revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith.” - Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis

The Roman Catholic Church (ie. the Church in communion with the Pope) is the same Church Christ founded on Blessed Peter. Outside of it, there is no salvation.
I think that is what I was saying. The Eastern Orthodox are not part of the Catholic Church?
 
I think that is what I was saying. The Eastern Orthodox are not part of the Catholic Church?
The Eastern Orthodox reject 13 councils of the Church, and many dogmas, including Papal Infallibility. That makes them heretics. They also reject the Pope as the head of the Church and refuse sumbission to him. That makes them schismatics.

Neither schismatics, nor heretics, are members of the Church.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi: “For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.”
 
The Eastern Orthodox reject 13 councils of the Church, and many dogmas, including Papal Infallibility. That makes them heretics. They also reject the Pope as the head of the Church and refuse sumbission to him. That makes them schismatics.

Neither schismatics, nor heretics, are members of the Church.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi: “For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.”
Oops I goofed. I meant Eastern Rite. Sorry.
 
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