Could The Blessed Virgin have lived a sinless life?

[Fiat]

DavidB:

Hi Michael,

I did a little digging on New Advent.org to see if I could find some references regarding your claim, and I did. I found a letter from 417 AD that sounded strikingly similar to our conversation here. Saint Jerome wrote a letter entitled “Against the Pelagians” in which he corrects the errors of Critobulus, a heretic. Critobulus claimed, exactly as you do, that God commands sinless perfection and nothing God commands is impossible. St Jerome sets him straight just as I have attempted with you. Read for yourself . . . newadvent.org/fathers/30111.htm.

I hope after reading this, you’ll see that in this case, it’s not OK to agree to disagree. And strangely enough, we have a non-Catholic Christian (me) trying to keep a Catholic (you) from maintaining a heresy as truth. I pray you are able to accept this truth with the spirit intended - as gentle nudge back on course.

David

Dear DavidB:

Did you actually take the time to read through St. Jerome’s dialogue in which you find some alleged support for your attack against Church Militant, or did you just skim the first few pages to conclude that St. Jerome disagrees with ChurchMilitant?

Even St. Jerome starts to back peddle in his discussion. After Critobulus points out the scriptures’ references to the righteousness of Job, Zacharias, and Elizabeth, St. Jerome admits that there are “two sorts of perfection, two of righteousness.” He says that that there is a righteousness which is said to be perfect, not in comparison with God, but as recognized by God. It is this sort of righteousness that Job and Zecharias and Elizabeth had. Thus, St. Jerome constructs a dichotomy of righteousness: that attainable by man and that which God alone possesses. It seems St. Jerome thinks that Critobulus assumes that the righteousness which God alone possesses is within man’s grasp. Clearly, this is not the case. Instead, St. Jerome admits there is a perfection that man may reach which the grace of Christ, and it is in this perfection that allows us to be righteous.

Interestingly, St. Jerome goes on to say “Elizabeth and Zacharias…may teach us how far they are beneath the holiness of blessed Mary, the Lord’s Mother, who, conscious that God was dwlling in her, proclaims without reserve, 'Behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”

Frankly, I’ve always been a little leary when non-Catholics start interpreting for us Catholics what Catholic Teaching is supposed to be, when it is these same non-Catholics who seem to have such a difficult time understanding the plain meaning of verses like John 6:53 and Matt 16:18.

Peace
Fiat

 

[Church_Militant]

Fiat:

Dear DavidB:

Did you actually take the time to read through St. Jerome’s dialogue in which you find some alleged support for your attack against Church Militant, or did you just skim the first few pages to conclude that St. Jerome disagrees with ChurchMilitant?

Even St. Jerome starts to back peddle in his discussion. After Critobulus points out the scriptures’ references to the righteousness of Job, Zacharias, and Elizabeth, St. Jerome admits that there are “two sorts of perfection, two of righteousness.” He says that that there is a righteousness which is said to be perfect, not in comparison with God, but as recognized by God. It is this sort of righteousness that Job and Zecharias and Elizabeth had. Thus, St. Jerome constructs a dichotomy of righteousness: that attainable by man and that which God alone possesses. It seems St. Jerome thinks that Critobulus assumes that the righteousness which God alone possesses is within man’s grasp. Clearly, this is not the case. Instead, St. Jerome admits there is a perfection that man may reach which the grace of Christ, and it is in this perfection that allows us to be righteous.

Interestingly, St. Jerome goes on to say “Elizabeth and Zacharias…may teach us how far they are beneath the holiness of blessed Mary, the Lord’s Mother, who, conscious that God was dwlling in her, proclaims without reserve, 'Behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”

Frankly, I’ve always been a little leary when non-Catholics start interpreting for us Catholics what Catholic Teaching is supposed to be, when it is these same non-Catholics who seem to have such a difficult time understanding the plain meaning of verses like John 6:53 and Matt 16:18.

Peace
Fiat

Thanks Fiat, I saw that too.

 

[anunes]

Its catholic dogma, I think. I believe it pretty much because of what almost everyone said before me.

Only 2 or so people went to heaven bdy and soul, that enough is to convince me she sinless.

I think this may be why Cathoics honor her so much. She is a person whom really, should be everyones role model.

 

[RyanL]

michael777:

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. - Romans 3:23

the word of God cannot be borken
ALL includes Mary unless ofcourse she wasnt part of the human race in which case christ wasnty fully human!!!

Uh…Wouldn’t “ALL” also include Christ under your universal unbrella?

 

[Church_Militant]

anunes:

Its catholic dogma, I think. I believe it pretty much because of what almost everyone said before me.

Only 2 or so people went to heaven bdy and soul, that enough is to convince me she sinless.

I think this may be why Cathoics honor her so much. She is a person whom really, should be everyones role model.

Very well said!.

 

[Donna_P]

Without question.