Could the Methodist Church be reconciled with the Catholic Church?

[Bob_Crowley]

Most churches would totally balk at the teachings on artificial birth control. There’s really no way that Christianity will reunite under the Catholic banner until Rome stops prohibiting the limiting of family size through artificial means. It’s just not a practical rule in this day and age of women in the paid workforce, urban crowding, and higher demands by society in raising children.

I agree, as a former Protestant. Haiti for example has 8 million people in an area half the size of Tasmania.

Another major issue is the “infallibility” doctrine brought in by a bunch of ultra-montanists at Vatican I. It wasn’t necessary, and all it does in the end is provide an extra barrier to church unity. Educated Protestants are well armed when it comes to poking holes in Papal “fallibility”.

It needs to be modified.

The third issue is married clergy. Protestants and the Eastern Rite have been running churches and congregations successfully for ***hundreds of years ***with married pastors and priests.

The RCC needs to make some concessions, but without letting go of any of the core essentials.

Even so, I can tell you the final hurdle will be the Protestant acceptance of the Pope’s authority and office. I think God might have to do some head banging to get that into their heads.

 

[Middleman]

I agree, as a former Protestant. Haiti for example has 8 million people in an area half the size of Tasmania.

Another major issue is the “infallibility” doctrine brought in by a bunch of ultra-montanists at Vatican I. It wasn’t necessary, and all it does in the end is provide an extra barrier to church unity. Educated Protestants are well armed when it comes to poking holes in Papal “fallibility”.

It needs to be modified.

The third issue is married clergy. Protestants and the Eastern Rite have been running churches and congregations successfully for ***hundreds of years ***with married pastors and priests.

The RCC needs to make some concessions, but without letting go of any of the core essentials.

Even so, I can tell you the final hurdle will be the Protestant acceptance of the Pope’s authority and office. I think God might have to do some head banging to get that into their heads.

I agree, you make some very important points.

 

[rinnie]

I agree, as a former Protestant. Haiti for example has 8 million people in an area half the size of Tasmania.

Another major issue is the “infallibility” doctrine brought in by a bunch of ultra-montanists at Vatican I. It wasn’t necessary, and all it does in the end is provide an extra barrier to church unity. Educated Protestants are well armed when it comes to poking holes in Papal “fallibility”.

It needs to be modified.

The third issue is married clergy. Protestants and the Eastern Rite have been running churches and congregations successfully for ***hundreds of years ***with married pastors and priests.

The RCC needs to make some concessions, but without letting go of any of the core essentials.

Even so, I can tell you the final hurdle will be the [SIGN]Protestant acceptance of the Pope’s authority and office. [/SIGN]I think God might have to do some head banging to get that into their heads.

That is what I totally agree with. And without this nothing wlll ever be possible.

 

[PTD]

. … a seminary education forces you to think about the roots and principles of your faith, and that kind of thinking is likely to incline you toward Catholicism and/or Orthodoxy. Unfortunately, the reality on the ground does not always do this.
If Catholicism were purely a matter of books, I’d have become Catholic years ago. But one doesn’t convert to theological constructs. And since Christianity is an incarnational faith, the reality “on the ground” does matter.
Edwin

OK Edwin, I am guessing the “reality on the ground” includes your observation of weak or bad Catholics like myself, who make it hard to become Catholic. Is there any other reason for not becoming Catholic? You sound like the kind of person we need, although what we really need is for Catholics to live more Christianly.

 

[PTD]

Most churches would totally balk at the teachings on artificial birth control. There’s really no way that Christianity will reunite under the Catholic banner until Rome stops prohibiting the limiting of family size through artificial means. It’s just not a practical rule in this day and age of women in the paid workforce, urban crowding, and higher demands by society in raising children.

Up until 1930 all Protestants, as well as Jews and Muslims, rejected artificial birth control. It’s not a “Catholic rule”, it’s part of the Natural Law,which was upheld by Wesley and the other reformers. Protestants who rejected this part of the Natural Law years ago did not forsee what it would lead to. Today, some Protestants are seeing the results of abandoning the Natural Law, and are noticing just one Church standing for the Truth, in season and out. Some are converting - see Kimberly Hahn’s testimony, for instance. If Wesley returned to Earth today, he would become Catholic

 

[O.S.Luke]

I was told by a Methodist minister that the non-use of wine is one of the major obstacles that keeps the Methodist church from full communion with the Anglican church. Actually, it’s one of territory and autonomy. The Methodist church is NOT going to give up its freedom (or money) to the anglican church. No way!

If you’re talking about the British Methodist Church, you may be right about money and property. As far as wine… most drink wine anyway (at least the ones I know) - so it really is a non-issue in my opinion. But as Methodism continues to lose membership in Britain, it may become less a matter of property and money and more a reality. Theologically, there is very little difference between Anglicans and Methodists (on paper and otherwise); it’s more a matter of tradition and pride.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Up until 1930 all Protestants, as well as Jews and Muslims, rejected artificial birth control. It’s not a “Catholic rule”, it’s part of the Natural Law,which was upheld by Wesley and the other reformers. Protestants who rejected this part of the Natural Law years ago did not forsee what it would lead to. Today, some Protestants are seeing the results of abandoning the Natural Law, and are noticing just one Church standing for the Truth, in season and out. Some are converting - see Kimberly Hahn’s testimony, for instance. If Wesley returned to Earth today, he would become Catholic

Making a statement like “If Wesley returned to Earth today, he would become Catholic” is rather a sweeping opinion.

In Wesley’s time, the earth’s population was 750 million, yet even in that much lower population scenario the cities were teeming with drunkeness and despair.

It’s now almost ten times the number, but the earth hasn’t increased one whit to accommodate the extra population.

I personally think God killed John Paul I over the issue of artificial contraception. He lasted a whole 30 days in office. My old Protestant pastor thought likewise.

Some of my Protestant pastor’s accurate predictions (before he died in 19920 include -

1. There’d be a second Gulf War, but the Americans “would lose a few men the next time”.
2. His eldest son would have a major health collapse. He had a stroke around 1996 or 1997.
3. My sister wouldn’t live very long, due to leukemia. She died from leukemia in 2005, aged 45.
4. That I’d become Catholic.
5. That there’d be a conspiracy against me in the my former government job and I’d lose it. That happened in 1995.
6. That I’d do a cleaning job for a short time, as “I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost”. Sounded right over the top, but in 2006 I did a cleaning job for a short time and heard about a ghost (a suicide from the 1960’s in certain premises in Ipswich).
7. That “bugalug” (another Presbyterian pastor) would “get hold of this church after I’m gone and wreck it! But he can’t touch the people”. I found out later that bugalug called a meeting at 6am when the pastor died at 3am to get hold of the church, and he did wreck it.

So when you’ve got a track record like that, people who get to know you realise that when you say something, you’re probably right.

So, and I’ve said this before - either JP! was murdered, but there’s no evidence for that; or the magisterium, after weeks of deliberation, and presumably guided by the Holy Spirit couldn’t even pick the right man for Pope; or God didn’t know he was sick, which doesn’t say much for God’s omnipotence; or he was clearly told to do something important, and he didn’t do it.

I think it was the last, and I think God killed him.

Bluntly.

 

[Contarini]

OK Edwin, I am guessing the “reality on the ground” includes your observation of weak or bad Catholics like myself, who make it hard to become Catholic.

No, it isn’t. That is what Catholics always say. But I’m not talking about individual failings, which are present everywhere. I’m talking about structures and traditions which are not necessarily part of Catholic dogma but which deeply affect the way Catholics live out the Faith and which limit the expression of that Fullness of the Faith which you claim to possess. I can’t evaluate that claim. I can evaluate whether the worship, teaching, and practice of the Catholic Church actually embodies the fullness of the Christian Faith. And it clearly doesn’t. Even with regard to moral teaching, where I can evaluate the truth of Catholicism and am generally very impressed by it, the legalistic structures and traditions of your Church blunt or even negate the force of your teaching. For instance, that marriage is indissoluble in principle is clearly basic Christian teaching, and I admire your Church for upholding it. But no one except a few ultra-conservative Protestants is really willing to enforce this principle in practice. Traditional Protestants make explicit exceptions under which divorce and remarriage is permissible. The Orthodox allow remarriage as a concession to human weakness, but require that the remarriage liturgy be penitential rather than joyful. Your Church insists that there are no exceptions whatsoever, and then finds technical loopholes allowing you (for a fee, and after much paperwork) to declare many marriages invalid. This is an example of the sort of thing I mean by the “reality on the ground.” It’s not a matter of individual human failings. It’s a system that maintains the letter of orthodox Christian teaching while undercutting it in practice. Note that I do not advocate a strict application of the indissolubility principle. I’m not even sure that your method of dealing with the tension between the indissolubility principle and the messy lives of fallen human beings is much worse than the other two. But it is certainly open to serious objections.

Edwin