Could The Mormon Church Be The "true Church" Of Christ

[RebeccaJ]

Not what your early Fathers taught.

Maybe the modern is to define it away, but the early Church taught that man could become God.

MEgus

I seriously doubt you know what the early church taught. Overlaying your mormon belief over history and calling it fact doesn’t make it so.

As I said, still teaches it. Catechism:

460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81

I am glad you are seeking the truth in the Catholic Church. If you are going to accept the teaching of the Catholic Church, accept the truth of the Eucharist.

 

[MEgus]

Seriously, you were either born later than c.1980 or converted to mormonism since then, because frankly, you don’t know what you are talking about.

Born into the Church in 1951. Does that count?

MEgus

 

[Bill_Pick]

Remember when I said the Mormons believe in 3 separate Gods? You mormons denied this saying One God in three Devine persons. Look above to Mormon Doctrine page 516 . God Trinity The Trinity is 3 separate Gods…Excellent research Bill!!!

gosh it looks like you caugh them dancing again

 

[alanjeddy]

Bill, maybe you could explain this first.

The Real Shocker

The real shocker for many Catholics (and its easy for us to get comfortable and miss it) is the answer as to why God became a man. The immensity of the answer, the immensity of the gift which reveals the depth of God’s love is this: “The Son of God became man so that we might become God.”

Whoa! Did that knock your socks off or what? You mean God is not afraid of us becoming God? Exactly. It was the devil who lied to us and told us God was afraid of such a thing. It was God’s plan all along that we should become “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pt 1:4). In this plan we have to do it His way — which is the way of love (commitment) and not the way of lust and power. “God is love” (1 Jn 4:9) and we can only enter Him and He can only enter us according to His plan of love. Hearing that makes it easier to love God does it not? Hearing of God’s perfect love for us casts out our fears and enables us to give ourselves to God who so obviously loves us and loved us first (1 Jn 4:10).

Inside the Passion of the ChristIs it too good to be true? The quotation (“The Son of God became man so that we might become God”) you just read comes straight from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is a quotation from one of the greatest Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church; the one who saved Christianity from the Arian heresy. The quotation is from Saint Athanasius and can be found in paragraph 460 of the Catechism. It is followed by Saint Thomas Aquinas commenting: “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in His divinity, assumed our nature, so that He, made man, might make men gods.” Nothing is being taken out of context.

MEGUS come out of your fantasy. God in one of the 10 commandements said; Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. Yet mormons believe they can become gods and answer to God the Father yet have dominion over the angels in heaven. All 9 choirs. Even though there is an angelic heirarchy. Wow???

 

[alanjeddy]

Remember when I said the Mormons believe in 3 separate Gods? You mormons denied this saying One God in three Devine persons. Look above to Mormon Doctrine page 516 . God Trinity The Trinity is 3 separate Gods…Excellent research Bill!!!

 

[alanjeddy]

DUdE i have said it 100 i,m not yelling my key board is not working but i,m happy you like my post thank you may be you can help with these. Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.) Devil, the The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.) Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) God God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.) “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans…” (D&C 130:22). God, becoming a god After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.) “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them,” (DC 132:20). God, many gods There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3) God, mother goddess There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.) God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.God, Trinity The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)

i have some time so take your time,and thanks again for enjoying my post

 

[RebeccaJ]

Born into the Church in 1951. Does that count?

MEgus

Then I suggest you bone up on your church history. Joseph F, or Joseph Fielding Smith (I get the two mixed) clearly taught, unequivocally, without any question, that God the Father had sexual relations with Mary.

Orson Pratt went further to say they were husband and wife.

Brigham Young clearly taught the same thing.

I was taught it in seminary. Specifically, that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary so that she could live in the presence of God.

You can deny it all you like. I know what I was taught and I know that your church taught it.

 

[Bill_Pick]

MEGUS come out of your fantasy. God in one of the 10 commandements said; Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. Yet mormons believe they can become gods and answer to God the Father yet have dominion over the angels in heaven. All 9 choirs. Even though there is an angelic heirarchy. Wow???

you do not answer any question but you need me to answer yours sorry but it does not work that way sorry, do you belive the commandments of God if you do look at #6 and you are saying or your church does that Our Lord had many wifes,maybe you can explain this to me. that may not be what your church may not be teaching this now but it has. i hate to be you and tell this to your god and my God

 

[alanjeddy]

DUdE i have said it 100 i,m not yelling my key board is not working but i,m happy you like my post thank you may be you can help with these. Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.) Devil, the The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.) Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) God God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.) “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans…” (D&C 130:22). God, becoming a god After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.) “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them,” (DC 132:20). God, many gods There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3) God, mother goddess There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.) God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.God, Trinity The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)

i have some time so take your time,and thanks again for enjoying my post

Looks like everything I said is right there in the Book of Mormon. Wow in the Mormon Articles of Faith p443 God is married to His goddess wife and has spirit children…Why isn’t that on the Mormon web page??? Great work Bill

 

[alanjeddy]

Mormons are regrouping…

 

[Stephen168]

We believe in Bigfoot.

One of those things we learn is that even before Abraham was called of God, there was a great priest in the land called Melchizedek.

Gen. 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

There is no such thing as Bigfoot

Yes, there was a priest named Melchizedek, but there is no Melchizedek Priesthood.

He is right over there there

I see you didn’t bother to read Heb. chapter 5 and 7 before you replied, did you?

I’m looking over there and don’t see him.

Actually I did. Did I miss something?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Mormons are regrouping…

THEY CAN REGROUP ALL they like it will not change the facts

 

[alanjeddy]

THEY CAN REGROUP ALL they like it will not change the facts

You got that right William. Are they in hiding?

 

[truthsilence]

Thanks Tami for the article. I would assume most of those here have never read it by the way they jump all over us for professing the same thing.

You’re welcome. Glad you liked it.

Your church doesn’t exactly profess the same thing though. Stick around, you may have missed something in your study of Catholicism.

Peace,
Tami

 

[truthsilence]

Originally Posted by truthsilence
Diana, just for instance:

You and mfbukowski both agreed that Jesus is God and that there was never a time when He was not. But don’t you also agree that Jesus’ ‘spirit body’ was created by Heavenly Father, the same as the rest of us? Do you not see any contradiction or confusion there?

There never was a time when we were not as well. No contradiction there.

So, Jesus is and always was God, but God created His Spirit? You don’t see the problem here? Yes, there is a contradiction. Have you lived with so many for so long that you can’t see it when it’s right in front of you?

Pray about it, MEgus. I promise you I did, and I know many others here who have as well.The whisper of the Holy Spirit (Who is also God) is the reason I left Mormonism, and the reason I am Catholic.

This is Christ’s church. His Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. We still have the Priesthood and we still have the Sacraments instituted by Jesus Christ for the Salvation and Sanctification of mankind. Pray about it MEgus. I am praying for you and Diana and mfbukowski.

Peace,
Tami

 

[dianaiad]

Then I suggest you bone up on your church history. Joseph F, or Joseph Fielding Smith (I get the two mixed) clearly taught, unequivocally, without any question, that God the Father had sexual relations with Mary.

Orson Pratt went further to say they were husband and wife.

Brigham Young clearly taught the same thing.

I was taught it in seminary. Specifically, that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary so that she could live in the presence of God.

You can deny it all you like. I know what I was taught and I know that your church taught it.

Really?

Care to give us the QUOTES???

EVERY single quote you will be able to come up with will be taken out of context…and that context is trinitarian. It’s not about whether God had sex with Mary. It’s about God the Father being the Father of Christ, and that the Holy Ghost was not.

In your view, that would be heretical enough I suppose, but it’s not quite as titillating a charge.

So go ahead. Post a quote that is NOT firmly in the context that I am talking about. You will not, ever, anywhere, find that any General Authority in the church has claimed that God had sexual relations with Mary.

But be my guest; you made the claim, you find one that says so. Post it right here.

 

[dianaiad]

So, Jesus is and always was God, but God created His Spirit? You don’t see the problem here? Yes, there is a contradiction. Have you lived with so many for so long that you can’t see it when it’s right in front of you?

Pray about it, MEgus. I promise you I did, and I know many others here who have as well.The whisper of the Holy Spirit (Who is also God) is the reason I left Mormonism, and the reason I am Catholic.

This is Christ’s church. His Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. We still have the Priesthood and we still have the Sacraments instituted by Jesus Christ for the Salvation and Sanctification of mankind. Pray about it MEgus. I am praying for you and Diana and mfbukowski.

Peace,
Tami

Thank you.

However, this thread is getting too much like alt.religion.mormon for my taste; the ad hominems, sarcasm and mockery are flying.

I’d like to ask you guys something; why do you have a ‘non-Catholic religions’ forum, anyway?

What’s the purpose of it?

Because frankly, from here it looks like a nicely decorated spiderweb…like Jack Chick having a ‘Catholics invited’ forum on his website.

If you weren’t going to treat members of non-Catholic religions with courtesy, if your entire purpose for inviting us into your forum (and you DID invite us!) is to attack our beliefs and insult us…

I’d rather not.

Remember now, I have not ever once insulted or attacked Catholicism or denigrated your beliefs. The majority of my posts have been responses to people who do nothing BUT that to my own faith.

Of course, freedom of speech and all that guarantee that you can say anything you want; and it is, after all, your forum even if non-Catholics were specifically invited to this portion of it. That’s your right and your privilege.

However, you might consider that when you pull this sort of thing on others, you have then given up any right you have to complain about the Jack Chicks of the world.

 

[alanjeddy]

Thank you.

However, this thread is getting too much like alt.religion.mormon for my taste; the ad hominems, sarcasm and mockery are flying.

I’d like to ask you guys something; why do you have a ‘non-Catholic religions’ forum, anyway?

What’s the purpose of it?

Because frankly, from here it looks like a nicely decorated spiderweb…like Jack Chick having a ‘Catholics invited’ forum on his website.

If you weren’t going to treat members of non-Catholic religions with courtesy, if your entire purpose for inviting us into your forum (and you DID invite us!) is to attack our beliefs and insult us…

I’d rather not.

Remember now, I have not ever once insulted or attacked Catholicism or denigrated your beliefs. The majority of my posts have been responses to people who do nothing BUT that to my own faith.

Of course, freedom of speech and all that guarantee that you can say anything you want; and it is, after all, your forum even if non-Catholics were specifically invited to this portion of it. That’s your right and your privilege.

However, you might consider that when you pull this sort of thing on others, you have then given up any right you have to complain about the Jack Chicks of the world.

We said things about your faith that were the truth even though collectively you denied it. Bill did his homework and gave you references in your book of Mormon and in the writings of other mormons that corroberated and validated our apologetics. Apologetics is about defending ones beliefs. You collectively have failed beacause your church is not even remotely close to any Christian orthodoxy, Protestant or Catholic.

 

[PaulDupre]

We teach that God the Father is the Biological Father of Jesus Christ. No Where do we ever teach or have ever taught that he had Sex with the Virgin Mary. How could she be a virgin if she had sex???

MEgus

By “Virgin birth”, Mormons mean that no mortal human had sex with Mary, but since God had sex with Mary, and He is immortal, she remains a virgin.

Presidents of the LDS Church:

President Brigham Young:

“The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband.” (Deseret News, Oct. 10, 1866)

“The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood – was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115)

President Joseph Fielding Smith:

“They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches No Such Thing! Neither does the Bible!” (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18)
“Jesus was not the son of any mortal man. His biological father was God, the Father. As Son of God, Jesus represents the Father and acts as his agent in all things.” (The Restoration of All Things, p.61)
“Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, page 18)

President Ezra Taft Benson:

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which he performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He Begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father.” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, pages 6-7)

Continued…

 

[PaulDupre]

**Apostles (“Prophets, seers and revelators”) of the LDS Church:
**
Apostle Orson Pratt (Appointed by President Brigham Young as Official publicist for LDS doctrine):

"The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Saviour unlawfully. It would have been unlawful for any man to have interfered with Mary, who was already espoused to Joseph; for such a heinous crime would have subjected both the guilty parties to death, according to the law of Moses.

But God having created all men and women, had the most perfect right to do with his own creation, according to His holy will and pleasure: He had a lawful right to overshadow the Virgin Mary in the capacity of a husband, and beget a Son, although she was espoused to another; for the law which He gave to govern men and women was not intended to govern Himself, or to prescribe rules for his own conduct.

It was also lawful in Him, after having dealt with Mary, to give her to Joseph her espoused husband. Whether God the Father gave Mary to Joseph for time only, or for time and eternity, we are not informed. Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity." (The Seer, Oct. 1853, page 158)

Apostle Heber C. Kimball:

In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. (Journal of discourses, 8:211)

Continued…