Could the next pope ordain women as priests?

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adrift said:
I wasn’t being sarcastic. Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Today people disobey God and justify it.
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We were taught that Adam and Eve is just a story and not literal - you are confusing me.
 
aprilfloyd said:
We were taught that Adam and Eve is just a story and not literal - you are confusing me.
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Question III: Whether in particular the literal and historical sense can be called into question, where it is a matter of facts related in the same chapters, which pertain to the foundation of the Christian religion; for example, among others, the creation of all things wrought by God in the beginning of time; the special creation of man; the formation of the first woman from the first man; the oneness of the human race; the original happiness of our first parents in the state of justice, integrity, and immortality; the command given to man by God to prove his obedience; the transgression of the divine command through the devil’s persuasion under the guise of a serpent; the casting of our first parents out of that first state of innocence; and also the promise of a future restorer? – Reply: In the negative.
When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which through generation is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.
  • Venerable Pope Pius XII, HUMANI GENERIS, Ch 37
 
captainmike said:
Not asking whether he would do so. Am asking whether he has the power to do so. Could the next pope say, “I know what JPII and Benedict said, but I disagree.”

I know that the immaculate conception of Mary and her assumption are dogmas that can’t be changed.

But does the teaching on women’s ordination really rise to that level? Is it a teaching that no Pope, or even an Ecumenical Council, could ever change?
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I don’t know if it’s a dogma. If it’s not a dogmatic teaching, then it’s possible a future Pope my allow the ordination of women. I don’t know where JPII came to his conclusion, but I’m not the one studying in the Vatican library
 
aprilfloyd said:
It is debated by most religious people that Jesus was not a ‘son of god’ - the catholic church can change it’s position on anything - you are being purposefully misleading here.
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WHO is being purposefully misleading here?😃

Document your assertion.
 
I did not intend to offend your or anyone on this post - the many titles used does not help and the use of normal names, I feel is much friendlier and open rather than position or title which is misleading, when you are discussing the person and not the job, so to speak. but I have noticed all through the posts that people use all different version of names - The Pope , pope, popes etc,. but I will try and be consistent. For the record you could maybe help - As a catholic, when say we god, we mean the god as in the respect of the father of jesus, but other religions call their deity ‘god’ too - what is the correct form of address for 'god in the catholic sense and how is it distinguishable say from the Muslim god or the Jewish god - my daughter who is indian - finds this confusing and I as a catholic am ashamed to admit I have never known
 
aprilfloyd said:
I did not intend to offend your or anyone on this post - the many titles used does not help and the use of normal names, I feel is much friendlier and open rather than position or title which is misleading, when you are discussing the person and not the job, so to speak. but I have noticed all through the posts that people use all different version of names - The Pope , pope, popes etc,.
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At least call him Pope Benedict XVI which is his current legal name and title. After all, he is the sovereign of the Vatican City state. 🙂
 
aprilfloyd said:
You are being disingenuous here - it is debated whether Jesus was a son of god by most religious people - you should at least admit that - therefore there is no reason why woman could not be ordained - in any religon
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You appear to have an incredibly skewed and incorrect view of Christianity and especially of Catholicism. Exactly when did you ‘cast off the shackles’ of your faith and exactly how much ‘teaching’ did you ever have? Either you were incredibly ‘unlucky’ in your catechesis or you really misunderstood what you were taught. .
 
aprilfloyd said:
I did not intend to offend your or anyone on this post - the many titles used does not help and the use of normal names, I feel is much friendlier and open rather than position or title which is misleading, when you are discussing the person and not the job, so to speak. but I have noticed all through the posts that people use all different version of names - The Pope , pope, popes etc,. but I will try and be consistent. For the record you could maybe help - As a catholic, when say we god, we mean the god as in the respect of the father of jesus, but other religions call their deity ‘god’ too - what is the correct form of address for 'god in the catholic sense and how is it distinguishable say from the Muslim god or the Jewish god - my daughter who is indian - finds this confusing and I as a catholic am ashamed to admit I have never known
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As a Catholic, when we say “God” we mean the Father, Son, and Spirit. Jesus is as much God as the Father; the Spirit as much God as the Son. You never grasped the concept of the Trinity? Three Divine Persons but ONE God?
 
aprilfloyd said:
I did not intend to offend your or anyone on this post - the many titles used does not help and the use of normal names, I feel is much friendlier and open rather than position or title which is misleading, when you are discussing the person and not the job, so to speak. but I have noticed all through the posts that people use all different version of names - The Pope , pope, popes etc,. but I will try and be consistent. For the record you could maybe help - As a catholic, when say we god, we mean the god as in the respect of the father of jesus, but other religions call their deity ‘god’ too - what is the correct form of address for 'god in the catholic sense and how is it distinguishable say from the Muslim god or the Jewish god - my daughter who is indian - finds this confusing and I as a catholic am ashamed to admit I have never known
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There aren’t multiple gods there is only One. There are false gods but the Muslim and Jewish are the same God as the Christian God
GODThe one absolutely and infinitely perfect spirit who is the Creator of all. In the definition of the First Vatican Council, fifteen internal attributes of God are affirmed, besides his role as Creator of the universe: “The holy, Catholic, apostolic Roman Church believes and professes that there is one true, living God, the Creator and Lord of heaven and earth. He is almighty, eternal, beyond measure, incomprehensible, and infinite in intellect, will and in every perfection. Since He is one unique spiritual substance, entirely simple and unchangeable, He must be declared really and essentially distinct from the world, perfectly happy in Himself and by his very nature, and inexpressibly exalted over all things that exist or can be conceived other than Himself” (Denzinger 3001).
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Reflecting on the nature of God, theology has variously identified what may be called his metaphysical essence, i.e., what is God. It is commonly said to be his self-subsistence. God is Being Itself. In God essence and existence coincide. He is the Being who cannot not exist. God alone must be. All other beings exist only because of the will of God.
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Tantum_ergo said:
WHO is being purposefully misleading here?😃

Document your assertion.
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I am not being purposefully misleading, I genuinely find it remarkable that someone can’t change their mind - and it does seem strange be asked for documentary evidence when so much in Catholicism is to be taken on faith (i.e. with no supporting evidence)

At catholic school we were taught many things including and in no order, contraception was wrong, limbo, purgatory, masturbation, mandatory confession, hell - the very strong position I was taught in these (and to accept them as absolutes) have changed - many of the ‘evils’ we were taught have been lessened and that we should no longer take such a strident and 'old testament view of these - nor to read the bible literally on many things, adam and eve, jonah, noah etc,. etc. even genesis

I appreciate that I am mixing up the bible with Catholicism but that is easy to do
 
aprilfloyd said:
I am not being purposefully misleading, I genuinely find it remarkable that someone can’t change their mind - and it does seem strange be asked for documentary evidence when so much in Catholicism is to be taken on faith (i.e. with no supporting evidence)

At catholic school we were taught many things including and in no order, contraception was wrong, limbo, purgatory, masturbation, mandatory confession, hell - the very strong position I was taught in these (and to accept them as absolutes) have changed
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None of these have changed except possibly Limbo. Limbo was never a doctrine of the Church, just a Theological theory.
 
aprilfloyd said:
At catholic school we were taught many things including and in no order, contraception was wrong, limbo, purgatory, masturbation, mandatory confession, hell - the very strong position I was taught in these (and to accept them as absolutes) have changed - many of the ‘evils’ we were taught have been lessened and that we should no longer take such a strident and 'old testament view of these - nor to read the bible literally on many things, adam and eve, jonah, noah etc,. etc. even genesis
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Nothing has changed.
LIMBO
The abode of souls excluded from the full blessedness of the beatific vision, but not suffering any other punishment. They enjoy the happiness that would have been human destiny if humans had not been elevated to the supernatural order.
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Catholic theology distinguishes two kinds of limbo. The limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum) was the place where the saints of the Old Testament remained until Christ’s coming and redemption of the world. The limbo of infants (limbus infantium) is the permanent state of those who die in original sin but are innocent of any personal guilt.
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Regarding the limbo of infants, it is an article of the Catholic faith that those who die without baptism, and for whom the act of baptism has not been supplied in some other way, cannot enter heaven. This is the teaching of the ecumenical councils of Florence and Trent. After defining justification as “a passing from the state in which man is born of the first Adam, to the state of grace and adoption as sons of God,” Trent declared, “Since the Gospel was promulgated, this passing cannot take place without the water of regeneration or the desire for it, as it is written, ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’ (John 3:5)” (Denzinger 1524).
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Some theologians of renown have thought that God might supply the want of baptism by some other means. St. Bernard suggested that such infants could reach heaven because of the faith of their parents (De Baptismo I, 4; II, 1). Cardinal Cajetan (1469-1534) espoused the same theory, but Pope St. Pius V had the passage removed from Cajetan’s works.
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The great majority of theologians, approved by the Church, teach that infants who die in original sin suffer no “pain of sense.” They are simply excluded from the beatific vision. Do they grieve because of heaven? St. Thomas Aquinas answers that they do not, because pain of punishment is proportioned to personal guilt, which does not exist here. Rather, “They rejoice because they share in God’s goodness and in many natural perfections” (De Malo, V, 3). It is believed that infants in limbo know and love God intensely by the use of their natural powers, and the enjoy full natural happiness.
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The Church has never defined the existence of limbo, although she has more than once supported the fact by her authority. Those who either deny that heaven is a supernatural destiny to which no creature has a natural claim, or who deny that original sin deprives a person of a right to heaven logically also deny the very possibility of limbo. On their premises there is no need of such a place. Among others who denied the existence of limbo were the Jansenists, whose theory of selective predestination excluded the need for any mediatorial source of grace, including baptism. They were condemned by Pope Pius VI as teaching something “false, rash and injurious to Catholic education,” because they claimed that it was a Pelagian fable to hold that there is a place “which the faithful generally designate by the name of limbo of children,” for the souls of those who depart this life with the sole guilt of original sin (Denzinger 2626). Pope Pius XII declared that “an act of love can suffice for an adult to acquire sanctifying grace and supply for the lack of baptism; to the unborn or newly born infant this way is not open” (Acta Apostolicae Sedis, XLIII, 84). At stake in the traditional belief in limbo is the revealed doctrine that heaven is a sheer gift of divine goodness and that baptism of water or desire is necessary to enter heaven. (Etym. Latin limbo, ablative form of limbus, border; taken from “in limbo patrum” [in the border of hell reserved for the fathers (or saints)], a phrase used by the Church Fathers.)
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Rence said:
I don’t know if it’s a dogma. If it’s not a dogmatic teaching, then it’s possible a future Pope my allow the ordination of women. I don’t know where JPII came to his conclusion, but I’m not the one studying in the Vatican library
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It is a teaching that cannot be changed. Not because I say so, but because The Church says so, and says so infallibly.
 
adrift said:
There aren’t multiple gods there is only One. There are false gods but the Muslim and Jewish are the same God as the Christian God
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There been thousands of gods through the centuries, that is not disputed - and no one can say if there is a true one god, it depends on one’s own belief system and is usually determined by your place of birth or your parent’s religion.

What is the name of the Christian God? and how do you explain the presence of Jesus to Jews and Muslims who do not see him as their god’s son - who is right?
 
aprilfloyd said:
What is the name of the Christian God?
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I Am Who Am.

Your are right of course about it being about faith
FAITH
The acceptance of the word of another, trusting that one knows what the other is saying and is honest in telling the truth. The basic motive of all faith is the authority (or right to be believed) of someone who is speaking. This authority is an adequate knowledge of what he or she is talking about, and integrity in not wanting to deceive. It is called divine faith when the one believed is God, and human faith when the persons believed are human beings. (Etym. Latin fides, belief; habit of faith; object of faith.)
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