Could the Pope be charged with Crimes against Humanity?

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“When a group of victims of pedophile priests announced on Sept. 13 that they would ask the International Criminal Court (ICC) to try the Pope on charges of crimes against humanity, the Vatican was quick to dismiss the petition as a “ludicrous publicity stunt.” After all, prosecutors would have to prove that Pope Benedict XVI, in allegedly neglecting to address pervasive sex abuse in the Catholic Church, belongs in the company of Serbia’s Slobodan Milosevic, Liberia’s Charles Taylor and the perpetrators of the Rwandan genocide.”

time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2093771,00.html

““It’s really a top-down problem,” says Jeff Anderson, a lawyer who in 27 years has filed more than 1,000 sex-abuse cases against the Catholic Church. “It’s the protocol and practices being set at the highest level, at the papacy. All evidentiary trails lead to Rome.” In 2010, Anderson won a major victory when the U.S. Supreme Court gave the green light to a case that seeks to hold the Vatican financially responsible for the abuse carried out by pedophile priests. In effect, the court rejected the Holy See’s claim to immunity as a foreign state. The case, which had initially been seen as a publicity stunt, is now in discovery.”

This is scary to me…I know it seems ridiculous to think that this may happen, but the fact that the US Supreme Court ok’d a case to move forward is indicative of the mindset that the Church faces here. It seems they will not stop until the Church is erased from the face of the earth and the Pope is in prison.
 
I can’t believe things like this are happening, the Vatican does NOT reflect the views of every single diocese, especially in the U.S.

This groups who fight against the Vatican need to be prayed for. They need to find peace, and not revenge against a man as holy as Benedict.
 
There have been “bad” popes at times in church history,
but Benedict the 16th is NOT one of them.

THIS POPE had BETTER NOT be charged with something
as vicious and obscene as Crimes Against Humanity,
—not unless this unbelieving world
wants to hasten the Great Chastisement and the Three Days of Darkeness,
to their own mortal and unhealable horror.

Benedict is an innocent and good man.
 
PJD1987 said:
“When a group of victims of pedophile priests announced on Sept. 13 that they would ask the International Criminal Court (ICC) to try the Pope on charges of crimes against humanity, the Vatican was quick to dismiss the petition as a “ludicrous publicity stunt.” After all, prosecutors would have to prove that Pope Benedict XVI, in allegedly neglecting to address pervasive sex abuse in the Catholic Church, belongs in the company of Serbia’s Slobodan Milosevic, Liberia’s Charles Taylor and the perpetrators of the Rwandan genocide.”

time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2093771,00.html

““It’s really a top-down problem,” says Jeff Anderson, a lawyer who in 27 years has filed more than 1,000 sex-abuse cases against the Catholic Church. “It’s the protocol and practices being set at the highest level, at the papacy. All evidentiary trails lead to Rome.” In 2010, Anderson won a major victory when the U.S. Supreme Court gave the green light to a case that seeks to hold the Vatican financially responsible for the abuse carried out by pedophile priests. In effect, the court rejected the Holy See’s claim to immunity as a foreign state. The case, which had initially been seen as a publicity stunt, is now in discovery.”

This is scary to me…I know it seems ridiculous to think that this may happen, but the fact that the US Supreme Court ok’d a case to move forward is indicative of the mindset that the Church faces here. It seems they will not stop until the Church is erased from the face of the earth and the Pope is in prison.
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Well, I wouldn’t worry about it. Unless they can directly link the Pope with concrete evidence that he personally moved around pedophile priests, or directed Bishops to do so, and directly covered up abuse cases, I don’t think they can hold him legally responsible. Now, if he DID do such things, it might be a matter of time. But I think that they’ll eventually make legal headway with the Bishops who actually did cover up abuse cases, and shuffled around pedophile priests who they knew were abusing the children…
 
These so called anti-pedophile lawyers perodically do such things to get publicity which is one of the ways they drum up more business. They care not about the merits of the cases because to date the Church tends to settle out of court and it is an easy payday for them. Why do you think they pursue cases where the presumed act took place 30 or 40 years ago, and no one is alive from that time who can defend the Church. For them, it is money found in the street, and there is enough anti-Catholicism around to exploit the publicity.
I definately believe that any International court would never seriously consider taking up such a case. If they did, what authority do they have other than publicity? They would have no one to enforce any of their decisions in such a case.
Just imagine if the Vatican ignored such a trial. Apart from a 3 day foo fer awe in the press what could happen? What army (apart from Iran or Syria) or police force would dare to try to arrest the Pope?
So, chalk this up to more of the same old anti Catholic BS that we live through every day.
What do you think would happen if every Bishop in North and South America and Europe preached on the same Sunday against these mercenary disgraces to the legal profession and their anti-Catholicism! It won’t happen because it would be an unchristian thing to do, but …
 
Could the Pope be charged with “crimes against humanity”? Yep, there are those out there that are imbecilic enough to do it. Could the Pope be convicted of such said crimes?

I’d hate to think that the world has stooped so low as to do such.
 
At most, 6% of town mayors within the United States broke a serious law. After further investigation, it is discovered that many of these crimes were covered up by state governors, to protect these mayors. This is a great scandal, shaking the foundation of American politics. Now, is the President held responsible for the crimes of the mayors? Of course not. In fact, I would say we would need the President to help us through.

Same thing goes for the pope. Unless there are direct commands from him to hide abusing priests and bishops, then there is no legal ground. Ignoring the fact that he’s a leader of a sovereign state (which, in my opinion, isn’t the best excuse), there can be no trial if there is no evidence, whether direct or indirect. And being “associated” with the abusers is a logical fallacy (for example: most cover-ups of the abuse was done by bishops; the pope is a bishop; therefore, the pope covered up abusers). Guilt by association cannot work.
 
The_Scott said:
there can be no trial if there is no evidence, whether direct or indirect.
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I suppose their position would be that A. there is evidence, otherwise why did the U.S. Supreme Court ok a trial to move forward and disregard foreign immunity, and B. there is even more evidence, but the Church is “hiding” it and not being completely open and transparent.

I obviously don’t agree with that one bit, I’m just trying to think of their response to our defenses.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Right now, it’s an investigation. If he is innocent of cover-ups, he will not be charged. If he is guilty, he will be. He is among many who are under investigation, it’s not just him. But since there have, indeed, as one poster wrote, been “bad popes” in the past…it makes sense to investigate and clear him or charge him.
We want to find out the truth, do we not?
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You speak of an investigation. More like a complaint has been filed in a court of dubious jurisdiction. Furthermore, the American legal system is quietly ignoring
relatively current cases involving school teachers that great exceed the number of priests charged whose actions have been systematically covered up by the many school districts. Boy prostitutes roam the streets of San Francisco with few arrests made, or more than the usual prostitution cases, without causing an uproar. The scandal arises not because of the number of incidents or even because of the “coverups” but because the public has lost faith in the integrity of the priesthood. And it has lost this faith because of the constant publicity. Relatively rare case are made to seem commonplace.

I am reminded of a story about Jacob Riis, the famous reporter of the 1890s. He developed the technique of hanging out at police station asking beat cops about incidents. He got quite an earful. Soon his paper was reading about the cases he was reporting. Soon the public was in a panic. They no longer felt safe on the streets, although nothing had changed. Finally, Theodore Roosevelt, one of the police commissioners, told him to law off, because he was causing a panic.

Something similar has happened in the US, but it is not so simple. Rather a public that has come to believe that sexual repression is unhealthy has now come to accept that celibacy ought to be abolished.although there is no evidence that married clergy are less likely to harm young children than Catholic priests are.
 
RobbyS said:
You speak of an investigation. More like a complaint has been filed in a court of dubious jurisdiction. Furthermore, the American legal system is quietly ignoring
relatively current cases involving school teachers that great exceed the number of priests charged whose actions have been systematically covered up by the many school districts. Boy prostitutes roam the streets of San Francisco with few arrests made, or more than the usual prostitution cases, without causing an uproar. The scandal arises not because of the number of incidents or even because of the “coverups” but because the public has lost faith in the integrity of the priesthood. And it has lost this faith because of the constant publicity. Relatively rare case are made to seem commonplace.
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Agreed.

The NEA and thousands of school districts throughout the US are guilty of committing the same “crime”. Even if you include all the fraudulent cases the US public school system has more cases of sexual abuse in a year than the Catholic Church has had in the past 60 years. And that’s a documented fact.

 
Well the first pope was nailed to a cross and hung upside down until he was dead.

Humans haven’t really changed THAT much, so sure it could happen.
 
RobbyS said:
I am reminded of a story about Jacob Riis, the famous reporter of the 1890s. He developed the technique of hanging out at police station asking beat cops about incidents. He got quite an earful. Soon his paper was reading about the cases he was reporting. Soon the public was in a panic. They no longer felt safe on the streets, although nothing had changed. Finally, Theodore Roosevelt, one of the police commissioners, told him to law off, because he was causing a panic.
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That may not be the best example, because Jacob Riis went on to have a stellar reputation as one of the great muckrakers and reformers of the nineteenth century, largely due to his photography of poverty in New York City.
 
(Quoting the article to keep a sense of reality in place…)

"And yet, while few experts give the case much of a chance of success — or even believe it will make it before the judge —…

"And yet, says David Clohessy, national director of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, the group that filed the petition, the court provides a unique opportunity to seek justice for victims not just in the U.S. or other Western countries, but also all over the world. “We’re not naive,” says Clohessy. “We don’t think the Pope will be hauled off in handcuffs next week or next month.”
 
Not to wish ill on anyone of course, but the most probable outcome if this went forward is that it would be tied up in legal challenges for so long, that Benedict XVI will have passed on before it ever came to trial.
 
Rolltide said:
Not to wish ill on anyone of course, but the most probable outcome if this went forward is that it would be tied up in legal challenges for so long, that Benedict XVI will have passed on before it ever came to trial.
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Realistic possibility in all honesty.
 
PJD1987;8384693 **In effect said:
"

This is scary to me…I know it seems ridiculous to think that this may happen, but the fact that the US Supreme Court ok’d a case to move forward is indicative of the mindset that the Church faces here. It seems they will not stop until the Church is erased from the face of the earth and the Pope is in prison.

The foreign state immunity clause is not absolute, there are exceptions. Its still up to the lawyers to prove that Vatican is actually guilty of falling under those exceptions.
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PJD1987 said:
“When a group of victims of pedophile priests announced on Sept. 13 that they would ask the International Criminal Court (ICC) to try the Pope on charges of crimes against humanity, the Vatican was quick to dismiss the petition as a “ludicrous publicity stunt.” After all, prosecutors would have to prove that Pope Benedict XVI, in allegedly neglecting to address pervasive sex abuse in the Catholic Church, belongs in the company of Serbia’s Slobodan Milosevic, Liberia’s Charles Taylor and the perpetrators of the Rwandan genocide.”

time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2093771,00.html

““It’s really a top-down problem,” says Jeff Anderson, a lawyer who in 27 years has filed more than 1,000 sex-abuse cases against the Catholic Church. “It’s the protocol and practices being set at the highest level, at the papacy. All evidentiary trails lead to Rome.” In 2010, Anderson won a major victory when the U.S. Supreme Court gave the green light to a case that seeks to hold the Vatican financially responsible for the abuse carried out by pedophile priests. In effect, the court rejected the Holy See’s claim to immunity as a foreign state. The case, which had initially been seen as a publicity stunt, is now in discovery.”

This is scary to me…I know it seems ridiculous to think that this may happen, but the fact that the US Supreme Court ok’d a case to move forward is indicative of the mindset that the Church faces here. It seems they will not stop until the Church is erased from the face of the earth and the Pope is in prison.
Click to expand...
I am glad that the holy father is not afraid of this evil world.
 
I know that St. Paul spoke of the Magistrate as being “God’s minister to
bear a sword against malefactors,”
but many Christians mistakenly take this to mean that civil authorities have
the right to make any LAWS they please
AND the RIGHT to inflict any PUNISHMENT they please.
And THAT belief is ABSOLUTELY FALSE.
Magistrates, too, are bound 100% (whether they ACCEPT IT or NOT)
by both the COMMANDS of God (His Laws) as well as His demand
that mercy, great mercy, be shown especially to the repentant.
They are NOT exempt from the requirements of mercy,
though they often act as though they are.
This world and its judiciaries, are wicked, evil, apostate and extremely sinful.
They promote, condone, and PROTECT ACTIVELY, baby killing including
partial-birth abortions.
In my opinion, such wickedness-condoning people have no moral right in God’s eyes
to sit in judgment of, or mete out “justice” to anyone, especially not
a good and holy pope like Benedict the 16th.
This world, in general, had better think twice about messing with this good pope.
Acts of effrontery against God’s ministers is referred to in Scripture
as “jabbing God in His eyeball.”
---- Ever had anybody deliberately jab you in the eye?
If so, how angry did you get at them for doing that?
Expect God to get just as angry.
Worldly people had better watch out. They are going waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far.
 
PJD1987 said:
This is scary to me… I know it seems ridiculous to think that this may happen, but the fact that the US Supreme Court ok’d a case to move forward is indicative of the mindset that the Church faces here. It seems they will not stop until the Church is erased from the face of the earth and the Pope is in prison.
Click to expand...
Credible or not, I would neither worry about it, nor be surprised by the implications of it. There have been many, many people, groups, organizations, governments, and nations who’ve decided that “they will not stop until the Church is erased from the face of the earth”. Every single one of them has found that they could be no more successful than a dog chasing the wheel of a car. As Chesterton said, “There are people who say they wish Christianity to remain as a spirit. They mean, very literally, that they wish it to remain as a ghost. But it is not going to remain as a ghost. What follows this process of apparent death is not the lingerings of the shade; it is the resurrection of the body. These people are quite prepared to shed pious and reverential tears over the Sepulchre of the Son of Man; what they are not prepared for is the Son of God walking once more upon the hills of morning” (The Everlasting Man, Part II, Chapter VI). But He will walk upon those hills forever.
 
Tiberius1701 said:
“There are people who say they wish Christianity to remain as a spirit. They mean, very literally, that they wish it to remain as a ghost. But it is not going to remain as a ghost. What follows this process of apparent death is not the lingerings of the shade; it is the resurrection of the body. These people are quite prepared to shed pious and reverential tears over the Sepulchre of the Son of Man; what they are not prepared for is the Son of God walking once more upon the hills of morning” (The Everlasting Man, Part II, Chapter VI). But He will walk upon those hills forever.
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That was one of the best quotes I’ve ever heard…wow. Thank you for sharing that 🙂 It was very uplifting! 🙂
 
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