Could the Universe have Created Itself?

[wsm]

We go back into light after cell death, because a light body left our origin cellular creation as the origin created act, which is why we died. This act is enacted for all organic life because light never left light, therefore we all enact the Christ at death/life. We are a light spirit who is born into life, who dies because we are born, but who lives because our light self is sung into and out of our cells as the holy angelic light body is being replaced.

Light therefore controls life and this light is the spirit, not the light of Creation that only supports its own body of creation.

It is why we witness the light at death where we return to it. Our light self in our cell is oscillating on a much higher light frequency that cannot be heard or monitored. For a Scientist trying to gain this information proves how evil you are.

As we lost a body of our spirit from out of light, it had to be sacrificed to become incarnate to complete the history of the loss of sound from out of this huge light body we call Heaven, obviously the creator lost a part of himself (our higher self) by stopping the loss from out of his light.

This is what our life journey represents…billions and billions of lives lived to replace the loss of this angel from out of light as the sacrifice…why it states we follow the path of the Christ sacrifice and are without sin because we are all innocent yet we all suffer the sacrifice of living in an evil body (that suffers pain and torment even though we are all innocent).

The use of Numbers and the application of this consciousness regarding Scientific pursuits of spiritual wisdom, you may as well forget about it. Numbers came from the attack of the Earth cell when she was nucleated by the Sun burst that caused Mars to lose its stone face and for other stone planetary bodies to explode. These are the trajectories you see hurtling through space that you presumed belonged to a beginning of creation…they came out of the bodies of the first created stone cells in space and relate to the energy that is left within the still held stone bonds that did not explode (such as Earth).

The total sound of the stone bonds were not lost, which is why we are still on a stone planet, but a stone planet that was converted into a destroyed cell.

Numbers apply to this application of the dust - Uranium, hence the Biblical information was a discussion of how the Earth became a radiated cell that was healing herself and causing the atmospheric condition to lose its radiated signals as it was involved in a cooling situation.

The radiated pathways the Sun in origin attacked us with were broken up after the atmosphere had her cold fusion outcome from the release of the Earth gases. This broke the radiated signals that originally attacked her and they floated away in outer space.

The Sun was only responsible for the attack, converting the stone/crystal of Earth into the dust. The Sun as a self radiating cell only affected us since then because light fell on the Earth face, which is the reason why oxygen in ICE is so high as proof that the atmosphere once held a much higher MASS of oxygen in the origin second creation and humans once again changed this state in the 8000 year ago disaster.

The return of the atmosphere saved us from the attack caused by the Adam and Eve incident which is what the story line implies. The return of the OXYGEN content in the atmosphere as our Spirit of Life only applies to the self cooling condition in a natural evolving atmospheric condition. If you change it then it DOES NOT HEAL. It will continue to replace itself until the ICE heats to a particular temperature and then the atmosphere will go into a quick burn out function.

Father explains that before he allows this occur, the truth of his spirit and the Light being as the Creator that has been ignored by you all details in his message that America will be attacked by a huge storm system involving a large number of tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquake and volcanic eruption on the SAME DAY as proof of your interfering Sciences.

When the ancients began to use sound technology via the obvious use of Pyramid relays and as displayed by Tibetan Monks who used sound to lift large boulders, they caused the Sun to again release a large burning body, that re-attacked us. This caused a cold fusion reaction, eating up the atmosphere, causing it to lose a large body of OXYGEN by increasing the amount of radiation. So the healing of the Christ and the sacrifice was attacked…which is why the story was written regarding the holiness of this spirit of life.

Just think about the obvious…an 8000 year old archaeological identified nucleated event.

 

[wsm]

wsm;11324266:

Consciousness…the ability to think, the ability to receive signals from the atmosphere, the ability to gain image from sound. The ability to be aware of how a signal as a transmisSION could be created and used via the use of the Pyramid/crystals. Human Beings ability to think is the WARNING, don’t take from the Tree of Knowledge, which you ignored.

Think about the reality, consciousness and the ability for a human to think created the use of Numbers by contemplating the atmospheric interactions. They bring into the lower life signal of the life source (OX - oxygen) being the Christ an act of SION (transmission) causing an ANTI CHRIST…they unintentionally burn life as an outcome of relaying a nuclear radiated signal for scientific pursuits into the life signal of oxygen eating it up.

Religion was created because of it, it documented the event, it documented how we arrived at this information regarding a pre history of humanity who first caused the nuclear event that altered Earth, how consciousness concluded science itself. These religious brothers then went on a journey of teaching to advise others about what it had caused and began an order to stop the abuse of the spirit of Life, that became known as the Christ.

That these brothers were murdered by atrocious acts during 0 AD to 23 AD as they had observed by the Christ stigmata - blood ooze was caused and that sound was still being used by the Giza High Priests. They tried to stop this act, were hunted and murdered.

This brotherhood went into hiding (as per their documents prove, hidden in caves). They eventually returned as a Catholic brotherhood who would murder or imprison Scientists (as per Gallieo) proves, those who were trying to reinvent the use of the Sun. They also went on Holy expeditions to destroy information at Giza (deface the stone encodings) and over to England to destroy those involved with Stonehenge.

This is a truth about the origins of the Catholic brotherhood. Although they themselves were known to be cruel and exact cruel measures against what they termed witchcraft, it is obvious that they were part of a sacred and holy brotherhood who had tried to stop the re-use of the Sun information and who banned all acts involving the Book of the Dead and at times went to extreme measures to ensure the safety of life on Earth.

Therefore when you study the reapplication of Phi ratios and calculus such as what is apparent in the Muslim traditions also, then you might understand why a Holy War was conducted, to stop the re-emergence of Science.

We might have forgotten the true meaning to these documents but it is obvious that the Holy function spoken about in the Bible has a true spiritual purpose. Therefore when a prophecy was read from out of the Bible regarding America and their fear that Iran was going to attack them, it actually prophecized the application and use of PHI harmonics that were a warning of a Holy War regarding this outcome, as they are using this information as scientific pulsed tests from their satellite program.

As Father warned is feeding back burnt radiated signals through this satellite study program into America’s own atmosphere. This is why humanity in America gained skin rashes/burn likened to what is demonstrated in UFO contacts and the obvious striated cloud lines that imitate the burnt lines in the Earth stone.

Therefore the conclusion proves, that Scientists destroyed the ANTI CHRIST, Satan, as this was the transmisSION that the Pyramid had applied in Giza by understanding the outside O circle of the atmosphere as a burnt unholy signal. That the normal falling out controlled by our Father singing for the atmosphere as a 1 to 1 angel sound to remove the satanic sound was the holy act as the unholy sound body radiated would be released into space (the great deep).

You caused the Sun to attack Earth again when the atom was broken and it began to sing a constant of falling out demonic bodies that began to burn the Earth stone again. Earth began to heat. Satan began to sing inside the burnt out stone cells in Earth, and has been heard and monitored by NASA themselves in their occult study. Satan was normally released by a controlled act of light into the great deep.

Originally when you caused this act, you were unaware of the increase in fallout, because just remember we had no atmosphere when this occurred originally as the creation of the holy dust (uranium). Therefore the falling out happens on the outside of the atmosphere as a timed incidence before atmospheric creation, but you observed an increase in volcanic activity and also earthquakes (tectonic-Carpenter) as WARNINGS.

You then began the collider, which caused UFO bodies to be witnessed falling out of the sky, falling out of the Sun and other planets. Human beings began to get attacked with the abomination you caused…the altered satanic act into the alien spirit bodies. NASA also began a Satellite program sending PHI harmonic signals into the atmosphere increasing the attack.

Human beings altered their cellular information…proven. Human beings were becoming possessed with a new form of evil spirit, because you altered the creation act, you altered the Holy Christ SIGN as an unholy act and WARNING SIGN…STIGMATA and it became EBOLA.

Stigmata was only known as a holy act, because the brothers controlled this situation as a holy situation in the name of our Father. As the Holy Order they became aware of possessions and also of stigmata as SIGNS that someone on Earth was re-using sound technology. This is why the Roman Brothers traveled under Church supervision when they heard what was happening to kill those trying to re-instate the act. It was why the Ark of the Covenant had a holy meaning of “hidden” because it is related to the abuses of Science.

 

[yppop]

The difference is that numbers and sets are abstractions, while physical events and moments of time are real/physical, and on -that- score, Hilbert was quite clear when he said…

“We have already seen that the infinite is nowhere to be found in reality, no matter what experiences, observations, and knowledge are appealed to.”
-David Hilbert-

My
Depends on what you mean by “physical”. IMO, physical means: "pertaining to any one of the four fundamental elements of objective reality: space, time, matter, and energy. I understand that the usual connotation would exclude space from a physical designation, but space is certainly an essential element in the natural expansion of the universe. And on that basis alone, I contend that the infinitely dense continuity of space is an “actual” presence.

Given my definition that space is a physical element and the assumption that space is continuous, which means infinitely divisible, then we are immersed in the infinite. Infinitely divisible means that every volume of space not matter how small you make it is filled with an infinite number of points. Is that not an actual infinity? Or do you want to claim space is not real? Hilbert wasn’t always right.

Yppop

 

[mytruepower2]

My
Depends on what you mean by “physical”. IMO, physical means: "pertaining to any one of the four fundamental elements of objective reality: space, time, matter, and energy. I understand that the usual connotation would exclude space from a physical designation, but space is certainly an essential element in the natural expansion of the universe. And on that basis alone, I contend that the infinitely dense continuity of space is an “actual” presence.

Given my definition that space is a physical element and the assumption that space is continuous, which means infinitely divisible, then we are immersed in the infinite. Infinitely divisible means that every volume of space not matter how small you make it is filled with an infinite number of points. Is that not an actual infinity? Or do you want to claim space is not real? Hilbert wasn’t always right.

Yppop

As you say, the notion of space being infinite is an assumption, and one does not base conclusions off of assumptions alone. You first need evidence, and as I understand it, this is still an open and heavily disputed question among physicists.

I agree with your definition of “physical” for all intents and purposes, though as a philosopher, I would have used “divisible into parts.”

I find Hilbert’s mathematical evidence to be extremely powerful, and in the absence of some strong evidence against it, I do find the idea of space being infinite to be highly dubious. I’m convinced that “points” as you call them, are not physical units that really exist, but only an abstract idea. Insofar as there are real units of space (such as the distance between quarks, and so on,) this would be physical, but I don’t see that “points” have been proven to be so, much less “infinite” points.

 

[SentinelofTruth]

mytruepoewr2:

The difference is that numbers and sets are abstractions, while physical events and moments of time are real/physical, and on -that- score, Hilbert was quite clear when he said…

Physical does not mean real.

mytruepower2:

In answer to this question; no. When we speak of God being eternal, infinitely powerful, infinitely wise, infinitely good, etc…, we don’t mean that God has an infinite number of units of finite power, or an infinite number of finite units of wisdom or goodness. These are infinite in -quality,- not -quantity,- and so the mathematical difficulties associated with quantifiable infinities simply don’t come into play when dealing with God, who’s fundamentally simple.

In other words, God is infinite in power in that he has all power. God is infinite in wisdom in that he has all wisdom, etc… In fact, in a certain sense, God -is- these things (such as power, wisdom and goodness,) in their purest form. But he’s not an example of an infinity being formed by successive addition.

Infinite does not mean formed by successive addition, just as 5 does not mean “formed by the addition of 2 and 3”.
And no, God is not identical to love, wisdom, or power. He is the perfect personification of them, but that doesn’t mean he is them.

mytruepower2:

I find Hilbert’s mathematical evidence to be extremely powerful, and in the absence of some strong evidence against it, I do find the idea of space being infinite to be highly dubious. I’m convinced that “points” as you call them, are not physical units that really exist, but only an abstract idea. Insofar as there are real units of space (such as the distance between quarks, and so on,) this would be physical, but I don’t see that “points” have been proven to be so, much less “infinite” points.

Space isn’t a huge grid. Space is a continuum, and for every two points in space, there is a point inbetween them. Therefore, space is in that sense infinite.
QED

 

[Peter_Plato]

Space isn’t a huge grid. Space is a continuum, and for every two points in space, there is a point inbetween them. Therefore, space is in that sense infinite.
QED

Which is nothing more than a statement about what you expect to be true concerning the continuity of space.

What appears to be continuous need not be. Sound, for example, seems continuous for its duration, but that does not mean there needs to be an infinite number of waves between every two consecutive waves, ad infinitum. There are discrete waves that collectively make up the sound.

My understanding is that physicists posit minimal discrete Planck units of time and space which seem required in order for theories about physical reality to be consistent with what is, has and will occur.

 

[mytruepower2]

You know “sentinal”, you gave four replies to me, and only one of them indicates that you actually read what I wrote.

Physical does not mean real.

I never said it did.

Infinite does not mean formed by successive addition, just as 5 does not mean “formed by the addition of 2 and 3”.

My arguments were -only- against forming infinity by successive addition of finite parts, and this was the only kind of infinity you referred to when you talked about time, since time is a series of finite events being added successively to one another.

Space isn’t a huge grid. Space is a continuum, and for every two points in space, there is a point inbetween them. Therefore, space is in that sense infinite.

I said…
“I’m convinced that ‘points’ as you call them, are not physical units that really exist, but only an abstract idea.”
Yet, in this reply, you presuppose the existence of points. So, I can only conclude that in spite of the passage quoted, you were either question-begging, or weren’t really replying to me.

And no, God is not identical to love, wisdom, or power. He is the perfect personification of them, but that doesn’t mean he is them.

Prove it.

Also, please don’t reply to me anymore unless you’re actually going to engage with the points that -I- made. You can reply to other people, but don’t pretend to reply to me if you’re not going to reply to me.

 

[SentinelofTruth]

My understanding is that physicists posit minimal discrete Planck units of time and space which seem required in order for theories about physical reality to be consistent with what is, has and will occur.

1. 
   *]Sound has been proven not to be continuous. Before science discovered that, eg. in Jesus’s times, it would have quite irrational to believe in sound “waves”. You see, while intuitivity has low credential value, we still should not believe something extremely counter-intuitive when there is absolutely no evidence for it whatsoever.
   *]Let us grant the existence of these “Planck units” for the sake of argument. Even so, do you think the spatial plane has boundaries, after which there is simply “no more emptiness”? No more lack? That would seem to be a contradiction. Even if the spatial plane had “edges”, the way a piece of paper does, the edges of a piece of paper are defined to be where the paper ends and the air begins. Thus, “edges” are defined to be dividers. Thus, if the spatial plane has edges, then there must be more space on the other of those edges
   
   
   mytruepower2:
   

   You know “sentinal”, you gave four replies to me, and only one of them indicates that you actually read what I wrote.

   If you must throw irrational and clearly false ad hominems at me, at least spell my name right.
   
   
   mytruepower2:
   

   I never said it did.

   When you separate two words by a slash (in that context), the taken implication is that they are synonyms.
   
   
   mytruepower2:
   

   My arguments were -only- against forming infinity by successive addition of finite parts, and this was the only kind of infinity you referred to when you talked about time, since time is a series of finite events being added successively to one another.

   Five apples are the same apples, regardless of whether they are formed by addition of two and three apples. Thus, infinity is the same infinite, regardless of whether it was formed by successive addition.
   
   
   mytruepower2:
   

   I said…
   “I’m convinced that ‘points’ as you call them, are not physical units that really exist, but only an abstract idea.”
   Yet, in this reply, you presuppose the existence of points. So, I can only conclude that in spite of the passage quoted, you were either question-begging, or weren’t really replying to me.

   Points self-evidently exist.
   
   
   mytruepower2:
   

   Prove it.

   Very well. God is a substantive being, otherwise he couldn’t have causal efficacy and so couldn’t have created the universe. Qualities such as goodness, power, etc, as we can see from their instantiability and lack of causal efficacy, are concepts, not beings. Therefore, God is not them.
   
   
   mytruepower2:
   

   Also, please don’t reply to me anymore unless you’re actually going to engage with the points that -I- made. You can reply to other people, but don’t pretend to reply to me if you’re not going to reply to me.

   If you haven’t noticed, I replied to three of your points, and all of my responses were completely relevant. I’m sick of you telling me I’m not answering you on every single thread when it’s never once been even partially true, and if you don’t stop it, I’ll probably tell the moderator.

 

[mytruepower2]

If you must throw irrational and clearly false ad hominems at me, at least spell my name right.

I admit, language arts is not my forte.

However, an Ad Hominem argument is saying that your opponent’s position is -false- because of something about your opponent’s character being deficient, and I didn’t make this claim. Your claims could be absolutely true, in spite of the fact that you’re not presenting them well at all. We just don’t have a good reason to believe them on that account.

When you separate two words by a slash (in that context), the taken implication is that they are synonyms.

That’s not the implication here. When I connect words with a slash, I often mean that either word could be used in this context, as we see here.

Five apples are the same apples, regardless of whether they are formed by addition of two and three apples. Thus, infinity is the same infinite, regardless of whether it was formed by successive addition.

All sets of apples are -always- formed by successive addition, because apples are finite things. I hope you’re not trying to say that there’s no difference between infinity of quality and infinity of quantity.

Points self-evidently exist.

Apparently it’s not self-evidence, because I find this to be an unfounded, and most likely false assumption on your part, and so do a large number of very prominent, modern physicists.

Something does not become self evident just because you can’t come up with any evidence in defense of it.

Very well. God is a substantive being, otherwise he couldn’t have causal efficacy and so couldn’t have created the universe. Qualities such as goodness, power, etc, as we can see from their instantiability and lack of causal efficacy, are concepts, not beings. Therefore, God is not them.

I assume that by “substantive,” you mean that God has a firm basis in reality, and/or an independent existence from the universe. I accept this about God (though referring to him as “a being” seems false to me under a certain interpretation of the word “being.”)

The problem is that goodness is not just some idea that people make up. If it were, then there would be no basis on which to judge the goodness of the actions of King David, or the wickedness of his sins.

Power is even more obviously an actual thing, since no causal effect at all can be put into play without power or something like it.

The first problem, therefore, with trying to provide proof of this notion that power and goodness are concepts is that concepts have no authentic basis in the real world, and power and goodness clearly do.

Secondly, please provide some evidence that the traditional Thomistic view of power and goodness is false. On Thomism, it’s not false to say that God is Goodness or God is Truth, because these things, in their perfection, exist only as God’s perfect nature, viewed in different ways by we human beings. In us, these traits exist as well, but fragmented into individual accidents (in the case of power and goodness,) or properties (in the case of some of the other traits that God is often said to have.) Why is this view logically-insufficient, and what makes your explanation the best one for the evidence that we have?

If you haven’t noticed, I replied to three of your points, and all of my responses were completely relevant. I’m sick of you telling me I’m not answering you on every single thread when it’s never once been even partially true, and if you don’t stop it, I’ll probably tell the moderator.

We need a moderator for our debates, to step in and stop people from calling logical fallacy when there hasn’t been one.

 

[Peter_Plato]

[2]Let us grant the existence of these “Planck units” for the sake of argument. Even so, do you think the spatial plane has boundaries, after which there is simply “no more emptiness”? No more lack? That would seem to be a contradiction. Even if the spatial plane had “edges”, the way a piece of paper does, the edges of a piece of paper are defined to be where the paper ends and the air begins. Thus, “edges” are defined to be dividers. Thus, if the spatial plane has edges, then there must be more space on the other of those edges

If the spatial plane has edges there need not be “more space” beyond those, there may simply be nothing, pure and simply nothing. Just as nothing material existed (not energy, matter, space or time) before the Big Bang. Are you claiming space did not begin then or that space always has been infinite?

 

[SentinelofTruth]

mytruepower2:

However, an Ad Hominem argument is saying that your opponent’s position is -false- because of something about your opponent’s character being deficient, and I didn’t make this claim. Your claims could be absolutely true, in spite of the fact that you’re not presenting them well at all. We just don’t have a good reason to believe them on that account.

Well whatever you call it.

mytruepower2:

That’s not the implication here. When I connect words with a slash, I often mean that either word could be used in this context, as we see here.

Which is generally because they’re synonyms.

mytruepower2:

All sets of apples are -always- formed by successive addition, because apples are finite things. I hope you’re not trying to say that there’s no difference between infinity of quality and infinity of quantity.

Not necessarily. If God creates five apples all at the exact same time, the set isn’t really formed by “successive addition”. Is the number 1 always formed by successive addition of 0.1? No, we just start with 1. In the same way, we can just start with 5, or with infinity.

Apparently it’s not self-evidence, because I find this to be an unfounded, and most likely false assumption on your part, and so do a large number of very prominent, modern physicists.

Something does not become self evident just because you can’t come up with any evidence in defense of it.
It is self-evidence. People can deny self-evident things. It’s called dishonesty.

The problem is that goodness is not just some idea that people make up. If it were, then there would be no basis on which to judge the goodness of the actions of King David, or the wickedness of his sins.

Power is even more obviously an actual thing, since no causal effect at all can be put into play without power or something like it.

The first problem, therefore, with trying to provide proof of this notion that power and goodness are concepts is that concepts have no authentic basis in the real world, and power and goodness clearly do.

Do you worship goodness? Did power sacrifice itself on the cross? No. We worship A god who is good, not goodness itself. Goodness and power themselves are instantiated perfectly in God (and imperfectly in some of his creations), but that doesn’t mean they are God.
Do you know object-oriented programming? If so, consider this: is God an object or a class?

mytruepower2:

We need a moderator for our debates, to step in and stop people from calling logical fallacy when there hasn’t been one.

You just said there hasn’t been a logical fallacy. That means no one has commited one, including me
Peter Plato:

If the spatial plane has edges there need not be “more space” beyond those, there may simply be nothing, pure and simply nothing. Just as nothing material existed (not energy, matter, space or time) before the Big Bang. Are you claiming space did not begin then or that space always has been infinite?

But “simply nothing, pure and simply nothing” is exactly what empty space is. Thus, if there is nothingness on the other side of those edges then there is more space.
And where do you get your ideas about “the big bang”? What makes you think the big bang happened? And if there was no material, what exploded?

 

[yppop]

Originally Posted by Peter Plato
If the spatial plane has edges there need not be “more space” beyond those, there may simply be nothing, pure and simply nothing. Just as nothing material existed (not energy, matter, space or time) before the Big Bang. Are you claiming space did not begin then or that space always has been infinite?

Well whatever you call it.

But “simply nothing, pure and simply nothing” is exactly what empty space is. Thus, if there is nothingness on the other side of those edges then there is more space.
And where do you get your ideas about “the big bang”? What makes you think the big bang happened? And if there was no material, what exploded?

Sentinel
Peter
My
Just as I was posting this, another thread entitled “space” appeared on the board . I quickly ran through the 21 responses and found that the vast majority of the respondents used the opportunity to be funny, witty or whatever, which is okay with me because of all else philosophy should be fun. However, if you guys are really interested, I would be willing to engage in a serious discussion (not an argument) about the nature of space.

Here is what I had written:
In your struggle to understand the nature of space, why don’t you guys shift the question away from some kind of “spatial plane” to something more interesting and real, namely the expanding universe. At one point in time, the universe was the size of a golf ball; it was finite then so it is still finite because nothing can expand to infinity. Given that, now consider what lies beyond and existed before the universe. I would like to read what each of you imagine the situation to be at the edge of the universe. I prefer a “physical” description of the spatial boundary if you think there is one. God is the obvious answer, but let’s pretend we’re philosophers and come up with something that sounds plausible. If you can’t come up with something plausible, I have an answer for you.
Yppop

 

[Peter_Plato]

Sentinel
Peter
My
Just as I was posting this, another thread entitled “space” appeared on the board . I quickly ran through the 21 responses and found that the vast majority of the respondents used the opportunity to be funny, witty or whatever, which is okay with me because of all else philosophy should be fun. However, if you guys are really interested, I would be willing to engage in a serious discussion (not an argument) about the nature of space.

Here is what I had written:
In your struggle to understand the nature of space, why don’t you guys shift the question away from some kind of “spatial plane” to something more interesting and real, namely the expanding universe. At one point in time, the universe was the size of a golf ball; it was finite then so it is still finite because nothing can expand to infinity. Given that, now consider what lies beyond and existed before the universe. I would like to read what each of you imagine the situation to be at the edge of the universe. I prefer a “physical” description of the spatial boundary if you think there is one. God is the obvious answer, but let’s pretend we’re philosophers and come up with something that sounds plausible. If you can’t come up with something plausible, I have an answer for you.
Yppop

Do you mean change the discussion on this thread to the expanding universe or engage in the other thread on space beginning with your entry above? I read through the space thread expecting to find your entry (above) there, but it isn’t, so now I am unclear as to what you are proposing.

 

[Jaaanosik]

Sentinel
Peter
My
Just as I was posting this, another thread entitled “space” appeared on the board . I quickly ran through the 21 responses and found that the vast majority of the respondents used the opportunity to be funny, witty or whatever, which is okay with me because of all else philosophy should be fun. However, if you guys are really interested, I would be willing to engage in a serious discussion (not an argument) about the nature of space.

Here is what I had written:
In your struggle to understand the nature of space, why don’t you guys shift the question away from some kind of “spatial plane” to something more interesting and real, namely the expanding universe. At one point in time, the universe was the size of a golf ball; it was finite then so it is still finite because nothing can expand to infinity. Given that, now consider what lies beyond and existed before the universe. I would like to read what each of you imagine the situation to be at the edge of the universe. I prefer a “physical” description of the spatial boundary if you think there is one. God is the obvious answer, but let’s pretend we’re philosophers and come up with something that sounds plausible. If you can’t come up with something plausible, I have an answer for you.
Yppop

Yppop,
“physical” edge of the universe? Force carriers flying at speed of light into the “nothingness”.
Jano
Jano

 

[mytruepower2]

Sentinel
Peter
My
Just as I was posting this, another thread entitled “space” appeared on the board . I quickly ran through the 21 responses and found that the vast majority of the respondents used the opportunity to be funny, witty or whatever, which is okay with me because of all else philosophy should be fun. However, if you guys are really interested, I would be willing to engage in a serious discussion (not an argument) about the nature of space.

Here is what I had written:
In your struggle to understand the nature of space, why don’t you guys shift the question away from some kind of “spatial plane” to something more interesting and real, namely the expanding universe. At one point in time, the universe was the size of a golf ball; it was finite then so it is still finite because nothing can expand to infinity. Given that, now consider what lies beyond and existed before the universe. I would like to read what each of you imagine the situation to be at the edge of the universe. I prefer a “physical” description of the spatial boundary if you think there is one. God is the obvious answer, but let’s pretend we’re philosophers and come up with something that sounds plausible. If you can’t come up with something plausible, I have an answer for you.
Yppop

My explanation would be that, since the universe simply is all of space and time, considered as a whole, the “edge” of the universe, if edge there be, is merely a border to that space and time, beyond which is timelessness and spacelessness.

God, However, is present to the universe, and also present even without the universe, so I don’t think one needs to reach the edge of the universe in order to encounter him. His existence is simply necessary.

 

[wsm]

My explanation would be that, since the universe simply is all of space and time, considered as a whole, the “edge” of the universe, if edge there be, is merely a border to that space and time, beyond which is timelessness and spacelessness.

God, However, is present to the universe, and also present even without the universe, so I don’t think one needs to reach the edge of the universe in order to encounter him. His existence is simply necessary.

Time is only a reference to light shining on the Earth.

A circle O was used to equate the reason why light shined on the Earth for a half/half situation…why we thought about what movement implied…were we a flat Earth or a round Earth? The circle therefore was used to count this application as a clock.

Therefore Philosophers quantified by looking at the star points and documenting the movement of the Earth body why we were a circular body involved with a Sun causing light to shine on the Earth’s body during different intervals. This was how geometry was created by star plotting and Earth movement and how time was invented as a theory of a clock.

This is the true relevance of time.

Think about this fact…do you know anything without the information of the Earth, her atmosphere and the Sun as an energy total? No you do not. The reason being that you use atmospheric sound, a sound that was replaced as a second creation to document the transmission data Scientists study from out of space, even though the origin (coldest cell never changed).

The Earth has proven to have altered her stone bonds, the planetary union displays this by exploded stone bodies. The total bonds of stone were altered and released and sound was changed in the Universal union. Stone had to be created first and bonded before it was released into an explosion. Therefore you needed to question what caused the release of these bonds of stone to make other planetary bodies explode?

If our creation is destroyed is all of creation destroyed would be the question Scientists are trying to prove regarding timed intervals of energetic reactions, stating that they think they have the information for the creative act itself as GOD?

This would imply that if you had the ability to destroy a Sun and the bonds of the stone, then creation would no longer exist because stone is the materialized outcome of the journey of light as a total space equation, as the Philosophers knew of the lost light body from out of Father’s Light Heaven they called Lucifer.

Therefore to destroy the last bonds of stone that cause stone to be apparent in the space body as a total outcome would cause all supporting sounds/bonds of the stone as the preceding sounds/energy attributed to the materialization of stone to no longer have a creative act.

 

[wsm]

Time is only a reference to light shining on the Earth.

What would happen is something none of us could substantiate because if these sound bodies/energy existed before they transformed via a journey into stone, this would imply that all bodies in the space cell belong to stone. This is a fallacy, because they belong to their own cells.

Therefore time does not relate to the total space/cell union because there would still be bodies of sound present as a light cell even though the journey of energy into stone would be totally destroyed as the LUCIFER act.

We could become a dead Earth cell, the sun still active and our supposition of time not supported because light would not be falling upon the face of Earth for us to count intervals.

As the Archaeology proves aligned to Biblical data, the Earth existed as another form of stone bonds. The Universal union of sound changed and destroyed those bonds.
The Earth had a pre existing atmosphere, it was burnt out and the new gases released from an altered stone bonding cell created a new atmosphere. Therefore the reactive state in the first atmosphere relating to biblical paradise on Earth substantiates that the Nature of our new atmosphere caused a different interactive response on a cellular level.

As the new atmosphere cooled, the sound of the atmosphere re-joined with the origin cold cells in the space body that never altered in the pre historical Universal disaster. This is our Father in his own Light Heaven still singing for the Creative Act of casting out LUCIFER.

Proving this has to be the Heavenly Light that dropped its sound cell out of its own higher light body just as was explained to me in my angelic intervention.

For the stone bonds to be proven to have been broken, for the Sun to have been activated into a held sound tone for destruction of the stone through the striated radiated signals it sent (as demonstrated as lines/marks in the stone bed) then another function had to have been involved in ceasing and stopping the Suns from their activated blast.

Only intense cold could achieve this outcome. Only intense cold could make a Sun shut off its blast before its own energy cell was extinguished. Only intense cold would allow a body to cool into new stone/dust whilst the space cell remained heated.

For cold to exist to stop heat, cold demonstrates to have been a creative act. That although it exists behind heat as if heat cooled in its journey, cold always existed behind heat causing it to cool purposely. This proves the true historical event of First Creation, that fell from out of Light.

Scientists have tried to imply that cold is a reactive state of an energy body using its own source to cool, yet why is a cool body also an energy body? Scientists imply that this form of energy is less than heat, yet in evolution cold is ahead of heat to reform life as Earth as displayed.

 

[wsm]

wsm;11330785:

Time is only a reference to light shining on the Earth.
Therefore is a Scientist implying that Earth as a stone body existed in this form with organic life present before any other form of creation existed? This would imply that we were created in the cold state of Heaven’s first state before it was radiated - as organic life demonstrates as fact. Stone, a heated fusion could not have existed in this state.

Therefore this proves the fact, that no matter how you observe your Scientific data it is proven to be incorrect.

The ancient Philosophers therefore understood that our actual spiritual life as an organic cell was created before creation of stone itself in a cold light. It was when stone cooled and produced an atmosphere that organic life emerged from out of the cold atmosphere that was adjoined with our Father’s Heavenly Light.

That Light only lost a sound cell from its own higher light body. As the sound was lost it created an increasing pressure causing the light to form light sound balls. The continual process of forming light sound balls removed us into a sound loss called space (fading of light), the pressure caused the balls to burst.

The first sound balls were the balls that became heated Suns, the second sound became heated cold balls by the heat of the blast altering the cold and the third sound balls remained totally cold without any radiated effect, being the last body of sound that ceased the loss of sound from out of Light Heaven.

The sound of the cells as a separate body only support the energy of its own body enabling it to be a radiated cell, for the very purpose of creating light. If you remove the light of the Sun it darkens. If you cause the Sun to darken in light and sound it causes cellular death of our life spirit. If you cause the Sun to darken it is losing its own life.

Cellular death has occurred on Earth because the Light of the Sun/sound has been changed.

Uranium was created in the striated blast of the Sun altering the stone bonds of origin Earth as a second creation Act for listening to Satan (sound alteration by human beings as the Adam/Eve story relates). Radiation is 1 sound signal as it is a total outcome of the sound of the Sun. 1 Sun = many sounds, but 1 Sun = the sound for radiation because of the many sounds that form it.

Therefore converting uranium altered the sound of the radiated signal Earth received and had healed to cause the radiation to cool into a DUST.

Scientists converted DUST into a pre existing ancient sound of the Sun that existed before uranium had been COOLED and healed. Hence they have removed this amount of healing sound from out of the Earth’s atmosphere and re opened the dark cells of the lost pre existing burnt out Sun.

The radiated sound the Scientists caused by activating fuSION therefore instructed the Sun to respond, and it therefore threw out of itself the healed light sound it had been singing to Earth as a communion of interference for the creation of COOLED URANIUM DUST.

So the Sun began to throw off UFO bodies as it began to release its sound to answer what Scientists asked the Sun to produce…an ancient sound. These UFO sound cells then followed the paths that originally created uranium as a radiated Sun signal and burnt a new radiation signal in our atmosphere for its stone conversion.

The fusion of our atmosphere altered and we became a very murky green instead of the clear green the atmosphere normally creates in the natural healed cooled function.

This all regards the information that I have been receiving from my angelic intervention explaining to Scientists that even though you may not convert uranium, you have still activated the ancient signal that is also burning into the Earth stone as a pre-existent attack of the stone before our atmosphere was created that ceased the Sun attack, made the striated UFO attack on us to stop and shut off the burnt out cells.

The radiation burns of this ancient attack not only converted the stone/crystal into uranium dust it also BURNT HUGE HOLES in the Earth’s body. These round stones have already demonstrated to be an ancient phenomena, having been ejected from out of the inside of the Earth.

Therefore whilst you are converting uranium through the use of this radiation signal it is also burning new holes into the Earth as if the Earth had not ceased the ancient attack that involved the burning of the total atmosphere of Earth.

 

[wsm]

wsm;11330790:

wsm;11330785:

Time is only a reference to light shining on the Earth.
Think about the reality of what you have caused…uranium was caused in an attack of destruction of the Sun, converting and destroying a pre existing stone body. You have re-activated this attack, the stone sound bonds are being released as UFO cells, and the Earth has duly responded to having her healed spirit as the CHRIST details altered and her stone plates (Carpenter - tectonic) that keep us safe began moving again as the bonds are being broken in the stone union.
It is why I posted the Biblical PHI letter equated prophecy that demonstrated that a stone bond, the Ancients called YEH as part of the Yehovah they knew regarded the spiritual life and future existence of Planet Earth had been destroyed because it had been BURNT OUT OF THE STONE CELL.
Revelation stated
NASA ALTERED EARTH SION YEH HARMONY BY HOT HE ANGLE (ANGEL) TO FIRST BOTTOM FATHER TOMB

The MOTHER ABOMINATION signals in Revelation gave a 65 letter value. These letters quantify that they begin with M = 1,000,000 value relating to MAF as million acre feet…and in Sun Time terms the protonic blast.

A solar proton event (or proton storm) occurs when protons emitted by the Sun become accelerated to very high energies either close to the Sun during a solar flare or in interplanetary space by the shocks associated with coronal mass ejections
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_proton_event

I was advised by my angelic intervention that the stone of the Earth is called a tomb of the Dead Spirit Bodies that were ejected out of the sound of Heavenly Light as it lost its 1 light sound. As our Father in the light created he used this sound to create his angels, who are created as a light sound with the love of his spirit, creating a REAL ANGEL.

Losing this light sound meant that as it burnt it created single imaged sound burnt light bodies as evil or abominated beings. Therefore it is obvious that human beings were NOT created from this sound as it only causes/creates dead evil spirits as the sound transformation into stone.

We are created in the light of our Father with his love. Our organic spirit is created from a light/love creation. Therefore we are the REAL SPIRIT.

The dead spirit NEVER had anything to do with us. We die because the light Angel that Father had to change in sound separated into many light bodies (human guardian angels).

The highest angel manifested into a light cell when it crossed over from the light through the Earth’s cold atmosphere into Nature. Sound caused its light body to begin to sing for the formation information of human DNA as sound cells forming sound bodies of organs as a light cell.

Therefore these angels were our Father/Mother spirit. They produced children in this body and bore them in the exact way in which we as red blooded humans bear children, except they were without red blood.

When human spirits were replaced as the family of Earth, these angelic beings as our parents returned into the light from out of the light body. This caused the children to become cell manifested as our death into a materialized cell. Because we became self manifest a part of our light body converted into an organic cell as death for an organic being. Hence our reactive union for cellular information came directly from light.

Healing of the light self has proven many miraculous events on Earth as proof that we came from out of light. Witnessing angelic beings manifest from out of thin air, is also proof that we come from out of light. These angelic beings have been witnessed and felt as if they were actually of human flesh, yet they were not.

Spiritual Teachers would could perform transformation have also proven we come from out of light as a direct descendant of the angels…not the Fallen Angels of Satan, but the Fallen Angels of the Light. Satan was never a Light Angel, Satan was a burnt light sound.

This is because as the light sound fell from out of the angels body, they remained a body of love in the light. They had to replace this lost light by learning how to love through the sacrifice of our light body into an incarnated spirit who died to save the Heavenly Light, which is why we are taught that love is the ONLY PURPOSE of our manifested life…we are all equal, we are all the same light angel…we are all returning to the 1 angel body from which we broke away from.

 

[yppop]

Do you mean change the discussion on this thread to the expanding universe or engage in the other thread on space beginning with your entry above? I read through the space thread expecting to find your entry (above) there, but it isn’t, so now I am unclear as to what you are proposing.

Peter,
I didn’t mean to change the discussion, I merely suggested a more appropriate object for discussion. Rather than a spatial plane with edges, I believe that a spherical universe whose dimensionality is defined by “space” would fit better with the OP’s question in that what lies beyond the universe is the same as that which existed before the universe. Since a finite universe must have a border I imagine the border must consist of two forms of space, the universal space on the inside, infinite nothingness on the outside.

Sorry if I mislead you with my statement, “Here is what I had written:” The para graph that follows was not in the “space” thread it is my response in this thread.

Are you interested in a discussion on the nature of space, especially the nature of the “infinite nothingness” that came before and lies beyond our universe? I believe describing the nature of the infinite nothingness leads to the proof that the universe did not create itself.
Yppop