J
JamesCaruso
Guest
Ah! Okay.
Is that a provable statement? What about space that is a yet beyond the reach of light? I’m not a scientist, but what you said seems provocative. Maybe I just misunderstand. Thnaks for your reply.
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Is that a provable statement? What about space that is a yet beyond the reach of light? I’m not a scientist, but what you said seems provocative. Maybe I just misunderstand. Thnaks for your reply.
L
Linusthe2nd
Guest
Space is the area in which things exist. There may be empty gaps between things, for instance there is empty space between a hand full of marbles. Scientists estimate that in outer space, in its most " empty " parts there exists about one hydrogen atom per cubic centimeter. But I personally suspect that there is no purely empty space. I think eventually there will be found even something that fills the gaps, some ultimate, foundational something, call it " prime matter, " the ultimate " stuff " out of which everything else is made.Ah! Okay.
Is that a provable statement? What about space that is a yet beyond the reach of light? I’m not a scientist, but what you said seems provocative. Maybe I just misunderstand. Thnaks for your reply.
By faith we know the universe is limited, it has a boundry of some kind, and there is literally nothing beyond it, no void, no space. Imagine the condition which obtained before God created the universe. It was a condition in which only God existed. That would compare to what we mean when we say " beyond space. "
Hope that helps.
Linus2nd
T
Tomdstone
Guest
i don’t see how we know this by faith. It seems to be an unwarranted assumption on your part.By faith we know the universe is limited, it has a boundry of some kind, and there is literally nothing beyond it, no void, no space…
Linus2nd
L
Linusthe2nd
Guest
Perhaps that was too strong. God created a contingent universe in which all substances are subject to corruption. There would seem to be no reason to create an infinite space to contain contingent substances.i don’t see how we know this by faith. It seems to be an unwarranted assumption on your part.
Linus2nd
S
ShameonMe
Guest
If I could, I would vote yes, just because I don’t like the idea of constraining God’s actions to direct actions or making things “necessary” of him.
T
Tomdstone
Guest
Some physicists today are supporting the idea of a multiverse, where you have an infinite number of parallel universes. If such were the case, even though each universe could be bounded and finite, when taken as a whole, the multiverse could be infinite and unbounded. It is speculation of a sort, but it is not been disproven.Perhaps that was too strong. God created a contingent universe in which all substances are subject to corruption. There would seem to be no reason to create an infinite space to contain contingent substances.
Linus2nd
L
Linusthe2nd
Guest
I’m not much interested in these speculations. But see the Magis Center of Reason and Faith : magisreasonfaith.org/.Some physicists today are supporting the idea of a multiverse, where you have an infinite number of parallel universes. If such were the case, even though each universe could be bounded and finite, when taken as a whole, the multiverse could be infinite and unbounded. It is speculation of a sort, but it is not been disproven.
Linus2nd
T
Tomdstone
Guest
Father Spitzer’s book and research is interesting and he discusses the question of the multiverse. If you have no answer to the question of the multiverse, then some might see your argument of finitude of the universe as lacking in credibility.I’m not much interested in these speculations. But see the Magis Center of Reason and Faith : magisreasonfaith.org/.
Linus2nd
B
Bob_Crowley
Guest
It’s not just a case of the universe “existing”. It also needs the conditions for life to exist, or we couldn’t ask the question. See link -
leaderu.com/science/ross-justright.html
More than two dozen parameters for the universe must have values falling within narrowly defined ranges for life of any kind to exist.
1.strong nuclear force constant
If larger: no hydrogen; nuclei essential for life would be unstable
If smaller: no elements other than hydrogen
2.Weak nuclear force constant
If larger: too much hydrogen converted to helium in big bang, hence too much heavy element material made by star burning; no expulsion of heavy elements from stars
If smaller: too little helium produced from big bang, hence too little heavy element material made by star burning; no expulsion of heavy elements from stars
3.Gravitational force constant
If larger: stars would be too hot and would burn up too quickly and too unevenly
If smaller: stars would remain so cool that nuclear fusion would never ignite, hence no heavy element production
4.Electromagnetic force constant
If larger: insufficient chemical bonding; elements more massive than boron would be too unstable for fission
If smaller: insufficient chemical bonding
5.Ratio of electromagnetic force constant to gravitational force constant
If larger: no stars less than 1.4 solar masses hence short stellar life spans and uneven stellar luminosities
If smaller: no stars more than 0.8 solar masses, hence no heavy element production
6.Ratio of electron to proton mass
If larger: insufficient chemical bonding
If smaller: insufficient chemical bonding
7.Ratio of numbers of protons to electrons
If larger: electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation
If smaller: electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation
8.Expansion rate of the universe
If larger: no galaxy formation
If smaller: universe would collapse prior to star formation
9.Entropy level of the universe
If smaller: no proto-galaxy formation
If larger: no star condensation within the proto-galaxies
10.Mass density of the universe
If larger: too much deuterium from big bang hence stars burn too rapidly
If smaller: insufficient helium from big bang, hence too few heavy elements forming
11.Velocity of light
If faster: stars would be too luminous
If slower: stars would not be luminous enough
12.Age of the universe
If older: no solar-type stars in a stable burning phase in the right part of the galaxy
If younger: solar-type stars in a stable burning phase would not yet have formed
13.Initial uniformity of radiation
If smoother: stars, star clusters, and galaxies would not have formed
If coarser: universe by now would be mostly black holes and empty space
14.Fine structure constant (a number used to describe the fine structure splitting of spectral lines)
If larger: DNA would be unable to function; no stars more than 0.7 solar masses
If smaller: DNA would be unable to function; no stars less than 1.8 solar masses
15.average distance between galaxies
if larger: insufficient gas would be infused into our galaxy to sustain star formation over an adequate time span
if smaller: the sun¹s orbit would be too radically disturbed
16.average distance between stars
if larger: heavy element density too thin for rocky planets to form
if smaller: planetary orbits would become destabilized
17.decay rate of the proton
if greater: life would be exterminated by the release of radiation
if smaller: insufficient matter in the universe for life
18.12Carbon (12C) to 16Oxygen (16O) energy level ratio
if larger: insufficient oxygen
if smaller: insufficient carbon
19.ground state energy level for 4Helium (4He)
if larger: insufficient carbon and oxygen
if smaller: insufficient carbon and oxygen
20.decay rate of 8Beryllium (8Be)
if slower: heavy element fusion would generate catastrophic explosions in all the stars
if faster: no element production beyond beryllium and, hence, no life chemistry possible
21.mass excess of the neutron over the proton
if greater: neutron decay would leave too few neutrons to form the heavy elements essential for life
if smaller: proton decay would cause all stars to collapse rapidly into neutron stars or black holes
22.initial excess of nucleons over anti-nucleons
if greater: too much radiation for planets to form
if smaller: not enough matter for galaxies or stars to form
23.polarity of the water molecule
if greater: heat of fusion and vaporization would be too great for life to exist
if smaller: heat of fusion and vaporization would be too small for life¹s existence; liquid water would become too inferior a solvent for life chemistry to proceed; ice would not float, leading to a runaway freeze-up
24.supernovae eruptions
if too close: radiation would exterminate life on the planet
if too far: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
if too frequent: life on the planet would be exterminated
if too infrequent: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
if too late: life on the planet would be exterminated by radiation
if too soon: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
25.white dwarf binaries
if too few: insufficient fluorine produced for life chemistry to proceed
if too many: disruption of planetary orbits from stellar density; life on the planet would be exterminated
if too soon: not enough heavy elements made for efficient fluorine production
if too late: fluorine made too late for incorporation in proto-planet
26 ratio of exotic to ordinary matter (deleted due to character restrictions on post). Available at link.
Anyone who believes this universe just popped into being without a shred of intelligent design needs their head read.
leaderu.com/science/ross-justright.html
More than two dozen parameters for the universe must have values falling within narrowly defined ranges for life of any kind to exist.
1.strong nuclear force constant
If larger: no hydrogen; nuclei essential for life would be unstable
If smaller: no elements other than hydrogen
2.Weak nuclear force constant
If larger: too much hydrogen converted to helium in big bang, hence too much heavy element material made by star burning; no expulsion of heavy elements from stars
If smaller: too little helium produced from big bang, hence too little heavy element material made by star burning; no expulsion of heavy elements from stars
3.Gravitational force constant
If larger: stars would be too hot and would burn up too quickly and too unevenly
If smaller: stars would remain so cool that nuclear fusion would never ignite, hence no heavy element production
4.Electromagnetic force constant
If larger: insufficient chemical bonding; elements more massive than boron would be too unstable for fission
If smaller: insufficient chemical bonding
5.Ratio of electromagnetic force constant to gravitational force constant
If larger: no stars less than 1.4 solar masses hence short stellar life spans and uneven stellar luminosities
If smaller: no stars more than 0.8 solar masses, hence no heavy element production
6.Ratio of electron to proton mass
If larger: insufficient chemical bonding
If smaller: insufficient chemical bonding
7.Ratio of numbers of protons to electrons
If larger: electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation
If smaller: electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation
8.Expansion rate of the universe
If larger: no galaxy formation
If smaller: universe would collapse prior to star formation
9.Entropy level of the universe
If smaller: no proto-galaxy formation
If larger: no star condensation within the proto-galaxies
10.Mass density of the universe
If larger: too much deuterium from big bang hence stars burn too rapidly
If smaller: insufficient helium from big bang, hence too few heavy elements forming
11.Velocity of light
If faster: stars would be too luminous
If slower: stars would not be luminous enough
12.Age of the universe
If older: no solar-type stars in a stable burning phase in the right part of the galaxy
If younger: solar-type stars in a stable burning phase would not yet have formed
13.Initial uniformity of radiation
If smoother: stars, star clusters, and galaxies would not have formed
If coarser: universe by now would be mostly black holes and empty space
14.Fine structure constant (a number used to describe the fine structure splitting of spectral lines)
If larger: DNA would be unable to function; no stars more than 0.7 solar masses
If smaller: DNA would be unable to function; no stars less than 1.8 solar masses
15.average distance between galaxies
if larger: insufficient gas would be infused into our galaxy to sustain star formation over an adequate time span
if smaller: the sun¹s orbit would be too radically disturbed
16.average distance between stars
if larger: heavy element density too thin for rocky planets to form
if smaller: planetary orbits would become destabilized
17.decay rate of the proton
if greater: life would be exterminated by the release of radiation
if smaller: insufficient matter in the universe for life
18.12Carbon (12C) to 16Oxygen (16O) energy level ratio
if larger: insufficient oxygen
if smaller: insufficient carbon
19.ground state energy level for 4Helium (4He)
if larger: insufficient carbon and oxygen
if smaller: insufficient carbon and oxygen
20.decay rate of 8Beryllium (8Be)
if slower: heavy element fusion would generate catastrophic explosions in all the stars
if faster: no element production beyond beryllium and, hence, no life chemistry possible
21.mass excess of the neutron over the proton
if greater: neutron decay would leave too few neutrons to form the heavy elements essential for life
if smaller: proton decay would cause all stars to collapse rapidly into neutron stars or black holes
22.initial excess of nucleons over anti-nucleons
if greater: too much radiation for planets to form
if smaller: not enough matter for galaxies or stars to form
23.polarity of the water molecule
if greater: heat of fusion and vaporization would be too great for life to exist
if smaller: heat of fusion and vaporization would be too small for life¹s existence; liquid water would become too inferior a solvent for life chemistry to proceed; ice would not float, leading to a runaway freeze-up
24.supernovae eruptions
if too close: radiation would exterminate life on the planet
if too far: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
if too frequent: life on the planet would be exterminated
if too infrequent: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
if too late: life on the planet would be exterminated by radiation
if too soon: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
25.white dwarf binaries
if too few: insufficient fluorine produced for life chemistry to proceed
if too many: disruption of planetary orbits from stellar density; life on the planet would be exterminated
if too soon: not enough heavy elements made for efficient fluorine production
if too late: fluorine made too late for incorporation in proto-planet
26 ratio of exotic to ordinary matter (deleted due to character restrictions on post). Available at link.
Anyone who believes this universe just popped into being without a shred of intelligent design needs their head read.
T
Tomdstone
Guest
This is why many scientists are proposing the idea of the multiverse. If there are an infinite number of finite universes around, then the probability that one of them has all of the constants right would be close to (if not equal to) 100%.More than two dozen parameters for the universe must have values falling within narrowly defined ranges for life of any kind to exist.
1.strong nuclear force constant
If larger: no hydrogen; nuclei essential for life would be unstable
If smaller: no elements other than hydrogen
2.Weak nuclear force constant
If larger: too much hydrogen converted to helium in big bang, hence too much heavy element material made by star burning; no expulsion of heavy elements from stars
If smaller: too little helium produced from big bang, hence too little heavy element material made by star burning; no expulsion of heavy elements from stars
3.Gravitational force constant
If larger: stars would be too hot and would burn up too quickly and too unevenly
If smaller: stars would remain so cool that nuclear fusion would never ignite, hence no heavy element production
4.Electromagnetic force constant
If larger: insufficient chemical bonding; elements more massive than boron would be too unstable for fission
If smaller: insufficient chemical bonding
5.Ratio of electromagnetic force constant to gravitational force constant
If larger: no stars less than 1.4 solar masses hence short stellar life spans and uneven stellar luminosities
If smaller: no stars more than 0.8 solar masses, hence no heavy element production
6.Ratio of electron to proton mass
If larger: insufficient chemical bonding
If smaller: insufficient chemical bonding
7.Ratio of numbers of protons to electrons
If larger: electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation
If smaller: electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation
8.Expansion rate of the universe
If larger: no galaxy formation
If smaller: universe would collapse prior to star formation
9.Entropy level of the universe
If smaller: no proto-galaxy formation
If larger: no star condensation within the proto-galaxies
10.Mass density of the universe
If larger: too much deuterium from big bang hence stars burn too rapidly
If smaller: insufficient helium from big bang, hence too few heavy elements forming
11.Velocity of light
…
12.Age of the universe
…
13.Initial uniformity of radiation
If smoother: stars, star clusters, and galaxies would not have formed
If coarser: universe by now would be mostly black holes and empty space
14.Fine structure constant (a number used to describe the fine structure splitting of spectral lines)
If larger: DNA would be unable to function; no stars more than 0.7 solar masses
If smaller: DNA would be unable to function; no stars less than 1.8 solar masses
15.average distance between galaxies
if larger: insufficient gas would be infused into our galaxy to sustain star formation over an adequate time span
if smaller: the sun¹s orbit would be too radically disturbed
16.average distance between stars
if larger: heavy element density too thin for rocky planets to form
if smaller: planetary orbits would become destabilized
17.decay rate of the proton
if greater: life would be exterminated by the release of radiation
if smaller: insufficient matter in the universe for life
18.12Carbon (12C) to 16Oxygen (16O) energy level ratio
if larger: insufficient oxygen
if smaller: insufficient carbon
19.ground state energy level for 4Helium (4He)
if larger: insufficient carbon and oxygen
if smaller: insufficient carbon and oxygen
20.decay rate of 8Beryllium (8Be)
if slower: heavy element fusion would generate catastrophic explosions in all the stars
if faster: no element production beyond beryllium and, hence, no life chemistry possible
21.mass excess of the neutron over the proton
if greater: neutron decay would leave too few neutrons to form the heavy elements essential for life
if smaller: proton decay would cause all stars to collapse rapidly into neutron stars or black holes
22.initial excess of nucleons over anti-nucleons
if greater: too much radiation for planets to form
if smaller: not enough matter for galaxies or stars to form
23.polarity of the water molecule
if greater: heat of fusion and vaporization would be too great for life to exist
if smaller: heat of fusion and vaporization would be too small for life¹s existence; liquid water would become too inferior a solvent for life chemistry to proceed; ice would not float, leading to a runaway freeze-up
24.supernovae eruptions
if too close: radiation would exterminate life on the planet
if too far: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
if too frequent: life on the planet would be exterminated
if too infrequent: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
if too late: life on the planet would be exterminated by radiation
if too soon: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
25.white dwarf binaries
if too few: insufficient fluorine produced for life chemistry to proceed
if too many: disruption of planetary orbits from stellar density; life on the planet would be exterminated
if too soon: not enough heavy elements made for efficient fluorine production
if too late: fluorine made too late for incorporation in proto-planet
26 ratio of exotic to ordinary matter
Anyone who believes this universe just popped into being without a shred of intelligent design needs their head read.
Y
yppop
Guest
And those same scientists would argue that if of a natural phenomenon was not observable, measurable, or testable it ain’t real. However that argument is only used when someone has the audacity to propose a spiritual aspect to reality. A lot of hypocrisy floating around in the scientific community.This is why many scientists are proposing the idea of the multiverse. If there are an infinite number of finite universes around, then the probability that one of them has all of the constants right would be close to (if not equal to) 100%.
Yppop
I
inocente
Guest
What natural phenomenon are you thinking of?And those same scientists would argue that if of a natural phenomenon was not observable, measurable, or testable it ain’t real.
You brought to mind the following cool animation of things on different scales, from the entire observable universe down to quantum foam. Drag the scroll bar to zoom in and out, and click on objects for more info. The scale is in meters so we’re at 10[sup]0[/sup] of course.
htwins.net/scale2/
T
tonyrey
Guest
:clapping: Only lunatics live as if life is purposeless.It’s not just a case of the universe “existing”. It also needs the conditions for life to exist, or we couldn’t ask the question. See link -
leaderu.com/science/ross-justright.html
More than two dozen parameters for the universe must have values falling within narrowly defined ranges for life of any kind to exist.
1.strong nuclear force constant
If larger: no hydrogen; nuclei essential for life would be unstable
If smaller: no elements other than hydrogen
2.Weak nuclear force constant
If larger: too much hydrogen converted to helium in big bang, hence too much heavy element material made by star burning; no expulsion of heavy elements from stars
If smaller: too little helium produced from big bang, hence too little heavy element material made by star burning; no expulsion of heavy elements from stars
3.Gravitational force constant
If larger: stars would be too hot and would burn up too quickly and too unevenly
If smaller: stars would remain so cool that nuclear fusion would never ignite, hence no heavy element production
4.Electromagnetic force constant
If larger: insufficient chemical bonding; elements more massive than boron would be too unstable for fission
If smaller: insufficient chemical bonding
5.Ratio of electromagnetic force constant to gravitational force constant
If larger: no stars less than 1.4 solar masses hence short stellar life spans and uneven stellar luminosities
If smaller: no stars more than 0.8 solar masses, hence no heavy element production
6.Ratio of electron to proton mass
If larger: insufficient chemical bonding
If smaller: insufficient chemical bonding
7.Ratio of numbers of protons to electrons
If larger: electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation
If smaller: electromagnetism would dominate gravity, preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation
8.Expansion rate of the universe
If larger: no galaxy formation
If smaller: universe would collapse prior to star formation
9.Entropy level of the universe
If smaller: no proto-galaxy formation
If larger: no star condensation within the proto-galaxies
10.Mass density of the universe
If larger: too much deuterium from big bang hence stars burn too rapidly
If smaller: insufficient helium from big bang, hence too few heavy elements forming
11.Velocity of light
If faster: stars would be too luminous
If slower: stars would not be luminous enough
12.Age of the universe
If older: no solar-type stars in a stable burning phase in the right part of the galaxy
If younger: solar-type stars in a stable burning phase would not yet have formed
13.Initial uniformity of radiation
If smoother: stars, star clusters, and galaxies would not have formed
If coarser: universe by now would be mostly black holes and empty space
14.Fine structure constant (a number used to describe the fine structure splitting of spectral lines)
If larger: DNA would be unable to function; no stars more than 0.7 solar masses
If smaller: DNA would be unable to function; no stars less than 1.8 solar masses
15.average distance between galaxies
if larger: insufficient gas would be infused into our galaxy to sustain star formation over an adequate time span
if smaller: the sun¹s orbit would be too radically disturbed
16.average distance between stars
if larger: heavy element density too thin for rocky planets to form
if smaller: planetary orbits would become destabilized
17.decay rate of the proton
if greater: life would be exterminated by the release of radiation
if smaller: insufficient matter in the universe for life
18.12Carbon (12C) to 16Oxygen (16O) energy level ratio
if larger: insufficient oxygen
if smaller: insufficient carbon
19.ground state energy level for 4Helium (4He)
if larger: insufficient carbon and oxygen
if smaller: insufficient carbon and oxygen
20.decay rate of 8Beryllium (8Be)
if slower: heavy element fusion would generate catastrophic explosions in all the stars
if faster: no element production beyond beryllium and, hence, no life chemistry possible
21.mass excess of the neutron over the proton
if greater: neutron decay would leave too few neutrons to form the heavy elements essential for life
if smaller: proton decay would cause all stars to collapse rapidly into neutron stars or black holes
22.initial excess of nucleons over anti-nucleons
if greater: too much radiation for planets to form
if smaller: not enough matter for galaxies or stars to form
23.polarity of the water molecule
if greater: heat of fusion and vaporization would be too great for life to exist
if smaller: heat of fusion and vaporization would be too small for life¹s existence; liquid water would become too inferior a solvent for life chemistry to proceed; ice would not float, leading to a runaway freeze-up
24.supernovae eruptions
if too close: radiation would exterminate life on the planet
if too far: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
if too frequent: life on the planet would be exterminated
if too infrequent: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
if too late: life on the planet would be exterminated by radiation
if too soon: not enough heavy element ashes for the formation of rocky planets
25.white dwarf binaries
if too few: insufficient fluorine produced for life chemistry to proceed
if too many: disruption of planetary orbits from stellar density; life on the planet would be exterminated
if too soon: not enough heavy elements made for efficient fluorine production
if too late: fluorine made too late for incorporation in proto-planet
26 ratio of exotic to ordinary matter (deleted due to character restrictions on post). Available at link.
Anyone who believes this universe just popped into being without a shred of intelligent design needs their head read.
L
Linusthe2nd
Guest
Perhaps, I’m always open to instruction. I don’t think science can demonstrate for either case. Though, assuming the " Big Bang " is correct, that would seem to argue for a finite universe with definite bounds - some where.Father Spitzer’s book and research is interesting and he discusses the question of the multiverse. If you have no answer to the question of the multiverse, then some might see your argument of finitude of the universe as lacking in credibility.
Linus2nd
T
tonyrey
Guest
Why doesn’t the question of finitude apply to the hypothetical multiverse?Father Spitzer’s book and research is interesting and he discusses the question of the multiverse. If you have no answer to the question of the multiverse, then some might see your argument of finitude of the universe as lacking in credibility.
T
Tomdstone
Guest
Because if there are an infinite number of universes such as ours, the whole multiverse would not be finite.Why doesn’t the question of finitude apply to the hypothetical multiverse?
T
Tomdstone
Guest
Could there have been an infinite number of big bangs with the universe exploding, then collapsing, then exploding, etc.?Perhaps, I’m always open to instruction. I don’t think science can demonstrate for either case. Though, assuming the " Big Bang " is correct, that would seem to argue for a finite universe with definite bounds - some where.
Linus2nd
Y
yppop
Guest
Since the big bang necessarily requires a beginning and things begin from something else so what we have here is a viscious infinite regress or as the little old lady said to Bertrand Russell or William James, which ever version of the story you choose, “Sorry sonny, it’s turtles all the way down”!Could there have been an infinite number of big bangs with the universe exploding, then collapsing, then exploding, etc.?
Yppop
By the way, if your name is Tom D. Stone, did your buddies call you Tombstone?
T
Tomdstone
Guest
yes.Since the big bang necessarily requires a beginning and things begin from something else so what we have here is a viscious infinite regress or as the little old lady said to Bertrand Russell or William James, which ever version of the story you choose, “Sorry sonny, it’s turtles all the way down”!
Yppop
By the way, if your name is Tom D. Stone, did your buddies call you Tombstone?
N
N0X3x
Guest
from what I understand, most models of the big bang claim that the universe, though finite in matter and energy, has no spatial bounds. It is apparently like the surface of the earth, in that if you move far enough in one direction (and you could go faster than the speed of light), you’d end up back where you started.Perhaps, I’m always open to instruction. I don’t think science can demonstrate for either case. Though, assuming the " Big Bang " is correct, that would seem to argue for a finite universe with definite bounds - some where.
Linus2nd
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