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njmama
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Wasn’t talking about you at all. I was referring to the second post by Bob C. Should have quoted it, I guess…
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Torn_Up
Guest
Thanks for the all the replies everyone! 
It’s much appreciated. Hopefully I will find the courage to get all of this mess in my heart sorted out very soon.
It’s much appreciated. Hopefully I will find the courage to get all of this mess in my heart sorted out very soon.
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Leibniz
Guest
Greetings, Torn Up.
It is interesting for me to come on here my first night and see another poster expressing similar (in a general way, not in the specifics concerning Jesus and Islam) thoughts to my own, especially one from New Orleans.
I am an atheist, and I too dearly miss the Catholic Church. In the 16 years since I’ve left the faith, I’ve had my mind on suicide almost constantly. And yet, somehow, I feel as though I cannot possibly return to where I once was.
It’s late tonight, so I won’t post a real reply to your post for now (so as not to repeat what somebody else might have already posted), but good luck in finding that which you seek.
Later.
It is interesting for me to come on here my first night and see another poster expressing similar (in a general way, not in the specifics concerning Jesus and Islam) thoughts to my own, especially one from New Orleans.
I am an atheist, and I too dearly miss the Catholic Church. In the 16 years since I’ve left the faith, I’ve had my mind on suicide almost constantly. And yet, somehow, I feel as though I cannot possibly return to where I once was.
It’s late tonight, so I won’t post a real reply to your post for now (so as not to repeat what somebody else might have already posted), but good luck in finding that which you seek.
Later.
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rinnie
Guest
Guess this is the example of what we are kinda talking about. You say you are an atheist but you miss the Catholic Church. What made you read this thread? What made you respond? What made you open up your heart and tell the truth in what you feel.
One answer, the answer that is hard for Many to accept. Jesus, he is on your mind, why because you said it yourself. Something is missing in your life to want to end it. See in a way you are dead and want to live. And you know that the answer is in that Church you miss.
Go back my friend, Please try it. What harm can it do? Oh but what Good can it do? Much I promise you that. I will pray for you. And hopefully soon, I can say welcome home. You are the lost sheep that Jesus wants back. Go back to the Father he is waiting with open arms. He will make all things new again. Go to the light, feel the sun on your face again.
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Leibniz
Guest
I would agree with this. Christianity is eminently more believable than modern Judaism or Islam. The birth of Islam was a pretty obvious melding together of various religious traditions for political purposes. If you want to delve into a scholarly analysis of this, just go to the New Advent entry on the Koran: newadvent.org/cathen/08692a.htm . See especially the small section on sources, which states, “The sources of the Koran be reduced to six.” (I think the entries on Islam and Mohammed are much longer.)
Judaism simply makes no sense without a messiah to all races. It seems to lack the progressive, guiding influence of the Logos. Most Jews today are secular for this reason–i.e., that Judaism by itself appears to be just an interpretive moral history of a nation born thousands of years ago.
Regarding the divinity of Jesus, it’s just about impossible to think that the writers of the New Testament did not believe Jesus was the resurrected Son of God. The most plausible argument is that the original writings were edited and redacted, changing Jesus from a moral teacher (or a composite of moral teachers) into the Son of God. But then you have to contend with historical evidence relating to early Christian writings. Even if you read an atheist writer like Dominic Crossan, in his book “The Birth of Christianity,” you will see that the early Christian writings occurred very early, and can be verifiably dated.
The trick to not believing in the resurrection of Jesus is to figure out how early Christians were still listening to people whom they believed to be apostles in the 1st century, and yet persisted in orthodox Christian beliefs despite the existence of many people during that time who would have known of Jesus. I mean, suppose you are a person in Antioch listening to Peter and Paul in the 40’s or 50’s. How could they get away with telling you about all these people who saw a resurrected Jesus, when many of those people live nearby in Galilee? If all of these hundreds of people are lying, then why? The best I can figure, perhaps these hundreds of people didn’t really exist (and perhaps there only really existed 2 or 3 original resurrectionists who embellished the story), but it’s still not an easy thing to reconcile.
If you are looking for a good introduction to polemics, I think Lee Strobel’s “The Case for Christ” is the best place to start. If you are looking for skeptical academic scholarship on first century writings, you can read Dominic Crossan’s “The Birth of Christianity” or L. Michael White’s “From Jesus to Christianity.” If you are looking for a thorough academic explanation of how the Christian belief in bodily resurrection is unique and different from any other religious tradition, then you can read N. Thomas Wright’s “The Resurrection of the Son of God.”
But most of all, if you are looking for a good practical reason why Christianity has a more sound moral foundation than other religions, then read about the Logos. Pope Benedict XVI has talked about the Logos to specifically differentiate Christianity from Islam (or for that matter, Hasidic Judaism and Christian fundamentalism too).
Hope that helps.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I just have one question regarding “Was Jesus God”?
What are your thoughts on atonement then? I think I understand the catholic position somewhat, so I have to ask if you are not sure if Jesus was God, then how do you handle the atonement for all mankind problem?
I realize different religions have different ideas.
What are your thoughts on atonement then? I think I understand the catholic position somewhat, so I have to ask if you are not sure if Jesus was God, then how do you handle the atonement for all mankind problem?
I realize different religions have different ideas.
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Leibniz
Guest
Why care about atonement per se? And what’s logically stopping God from allowing for a process of atonement without Jesus?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I would say the atonement needs to be figured out. Catholics say it was Jesus, Jews say they await the Messiah and their beliefs on Jesus are all over the place, Islam says Jesus did not atone for anything. I could be mistaken on the various beliefs Jews and Islamic people have about Jesus, but neither believe he atoned for all humankind.
So, why is this unimportant? If Jesus is not God, then who atoned for all humankind and how so? Or is this a future event that has not taken place?
I think there are a lot of questions if one decides Jesus is not God. That was all I was saying.
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Kaninchen
Guest
Why do you assume that such atonement is necessary or that somebody needs to atone for all humankind?
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Joe_Brown
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rinnie
Guest
Yes. Here is a easy way to see it. There is only one God. The Lord Jesus prayed to the Father that all may be one as we are one John 17:21-22
The mystery of the Trinity is of central importance of faith. While there is but one God he is the source of all else that is. God is not an utterly solitary Person. The trinity the one true God is a community of Persons eternally bound together in perfect understanding and love.
Faith in the trinity is faith in 3 divind Persons living always the eternal personal relationships of the Trinity. The Father is always the Father to the eternal son who is always the begotten and uncreated son. From the Father and Son proceeds forever the Holy Spirit as the person who expressses always the eternal love that binds the Father and SOn.
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rinnie
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