Could you REALLY convince me?

[M31]

Hello everyone, I’m new to this forum…but I must say I’m agnostic. Why? Lots of reasons.

I am someone who cant accept anything unless it makes sense…yet I’m one who can also say anything is possible - but the latter would just depend.

I have questions. Lots of questions. Too many questions. I dont know where to start exactly LOL.

Maybe you guys could tell me WHY you believe in God and how do you know for sure your beliefs are in touch with reality.

But in the meantime, I’ll ask a question.

I have always asked this question to myself and it is uncomfortable to ponder about but you have to always ask.

If God is all-everything (all-knowing, powerful, can do anything, etc.), and he really cares for ALL of humanity, and gives blessings, why can’t he evenly spread those blessing to all? In other words, why can he bless a country like America as a whole but leaves a third-world country like Haiti in devastating poverty?? Remember, God is all-powerful, all good.

Is God unfair? And does God have a justified reason to let people starve to death or live in nasty slums? Did God forget those people are really no different than Americans?

Or, is God dead or just plain imaginary?

Or, could we look at this with a scientific approach?

So, can you convince me otherwise? Convince me that God is real.

 

[Heuchler]

To answer your specific question, the reason there is suffering and bad countries is because we as humans have free will. That means that we will fight over the resources on this planet and instead of helping other countries which haven’t developed at the speed we have, we will fight to have even better things. God also uses suffering to help bring us to him. We can learn to rely on him when we are suffering. We can help others who are suffering to become good ourselves. And if Christ is truly God, and if Christ died a brutal death, can we truly expect to have a life without suffering. God also created the laws of nature. If the person in the slums isn’t given food, God isn’t going to break the laws of nature everytime we don’t help someone out. That man will unfortunately starve
I personally believe in God because I believe that there needs to be a first cause to create the Universe. I believe in the prophet’s and Christ’s teachings so I believe that this first cause is personal. I have faith that the prophets were as they said, wise people who spoke for God and performed miracles. I also believe that Christ was what he said, the son of God. That is in a nutshell why I believe what I believe. Hope this helps, good luck finding the truth, and welcome to the forums.

 

[CatholicTrekkie]

Hello M31!

Thank you for your question! I’ll try and answer the best I can.

What you ask is the typical “Problem of Evil” and the seeming contradiction between an all-good God and a world full of suffering.

The reason that there is suffering and injustice in the world, according to Catholic teaching, is because of sin. Allow me to explain:

God created the world to be all-good. How exactly this happened is not particularly relevant for this discussion. In the beginning of the world, everything was good. However, humans, whom God had given free will (He did this as an act of love. For how can we be humans without free will? And how can we love God without doing it freely?), brought evil into the world by sinning. This is referred to as “The Fall” and signifies the event in human history where sin was first brought into the all-good world that God created (This first sin is referred to as Original Sin). When exactly this happened is not known, and will probaby never be known. After The Fall, suffering entered the world. Thus an all-good God and the suffering of the world are reconciled.

If any part of my response confuses you (it is a very short form of a long argument), feel free to either respond in this thread or send me a message.

God Bless!

 

[M31]

To answer your specific question, the reason there is suffering and bad countries is because we as humans have free will. That means that we will fight over the resources on this planet and instead of helping other countries which haven’t developed at the speed we have, we will fight to have even better things. God also uses suffering to help bring us to him. We can learn to rely on him when we are suffering. We can help others who are suffering to become good ourselves. And if Christ is truly God, and if Christ died a brutal death, can we truly expect to have a life without suffering. God also created the laws of nature. If the person in the slums isn’t given food, God isn’t going to break the laws of nature everytime we don’t help someone out. That man will unfortunately starve
I personally believe in God because I believe that there needs to be a first cause to create the Universe. I believe in the prophet’s and Christ’s teachings so I believe that this first cause is personal. I have faith that the prophets were as they said, wise people who spoke for God and performed miracles. I also believe that Christ was what he said, the son of God. That is in a nutshell why I believe what I believe. Hope this helps, good luck finding the truth, and welcome to the forums.

Thank you for your response.

So it’s pretty much human greed that causes it? If that’s the case, then we are pretty indifferent to others. Yeah, that makes sense…kinda

If God made laws of nature, then they seem to be kinda harsh. But if God is a just God, then that man shouldn’t have to suffer.

Suffer? Who says suffering exists besides mankind? Suffering is ONLY an “inconvience” to mankind, right? Nature does’t care one way or another about humanity’s concept of suffering. Nature is indifferent.

I know that! One time I was leaving the bank when it started to hail severely. When I ran to my car, I got hit by those stupid balls of ice and it hurt. But nature didn’t care. It didn’t matter if I got a little hurt or not because nature doesn’t understand the human concept of “suffering”.

So if God created the laws of nature - and since nature doesn’t care - then that must mean God doesn’t care, right? Don’t forget tornadoes!

So why would God’s laws of nature hurt humanity?

 

[BraveNewFamily]

Hello everyone, I’m new to this forum…but I must say I’m agnostic. Why? Lots of reasons.

I am someone who cant accept anything unless it makes sense…yet I’m one who can also say anything is possible - but the latter would just depend.

I have questions. Lots of questions. Too many questions. I dont know where to start exactly LOL.

Maybe you guys could tell me WHY you believe in God and how do you know for sure your beliefs are in touch with reality.

But in the meantime, I’ll ask a question.

I have always asked this question to myself and it is uncomfortable to ponder about but you have to always ask.

If God is all-everything (all-knowing, powerful, can do anything, etc.), and he really cares for ALL of humanity, and gives blessings, why can’t he evenly spread those blessing to all? In other words, why can he bless a country like America as a whole but leaves a third-world country like Haiti in devastating poverty?? Remember, God is all-powerful, all good.

Is God unfair? And does God have a justified reason to let people starve to death or live in nasty slums? Did God forget those people are really no different than Americans?

Or, is God dead or just plain imaginary?

Or, could we look at this with a scientific approach?

So, can you convince me otherwise? Convince me that God is real.

I will let this picture answer wether or not God is real.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11170&d=1310864355

 

[CatholicTrekkie]

So if God created the laws of nature - and since nature doesn’t care - then that must mean God doesn’t care, right? Don’t forget tornadoes!

So why would God’s laws of nature hurt humanity?

I think there might be a flaw in your reasoning. Indeed, the laws of nature are blind about who they inflict pain and suffering on. However, it does not follow that God is also blind to pain and suffering. If we assert that God is all-good and that all He made was good, then it follows that nature is also good. How can this be true if people suffer at the hands of nature?

In my previous post, I said that Catholic teaching asserts that suffering comes from sin, and that sin was only present after “The Fall”. So, before humans Fell, there was no sin, and so, no suffering. But surely nature was also present before the Fall? But then how was nature good if it still inflicted pain on those pre-Fallen humans?

At this point, we need to make the distinction between the two terms: Pain and Suffering. Most modern people will say that they are the same thing, that they refer to the same feeling. However, this is not necessarily true. For to suffer is to feel pain, but not vice versa. Pain can manifest itself as physical, emotional, or mental. When you stub your toe, you feel pain. However, pain is only skin-deep. It is superficial, merely an indicator that something is wrong with us (at least physically). Suffering on the other hand, is much deeper than pain. Suffering is a condition of allowing pain to penetrate our very being, and to allow it to linger. To make an analogy, if people are both body and spirit, then pain is to body as suffering is to spirit.

Now that we have distinguished terms (Hopefully I have done this well enough), we can continue. Sin, in Catholic theology, is spiritual death, and from sin comes suffering. Since before the Fall, humans did not have sin, we did not suffer. We felt pain, but we did not suffer. So, in this pre-Fallen world, EVERYTHING was good, because God made it that way, and humans had not yet introduced sin into the world. Therefore, we can assert that nature is good.

I hope this helps. To be truthful, I think I might have lapsed in my logic towards the end. It’s getting late on my end so I think I need to go to bed. If you need clarification, just let me know.

 

[M31]

Hello M31!

Thank you for your question! I’ll try and answer the best I can.

What you ask is the typical “Problem of Evil” and the seeming contradiction between an all-good God and a world full of suffering.

The reason that there is suffering and injustice in the world, according to Catholic teaching, is because of sin. Allow me to explain:

God created the world to be all-good. How exactly this happened is not particularly relevant for this discussion. In the beginning of the world, everything was good. However, humans, whom God had given free will (He did this as an act of love. For how can we be humans without free will? And how can we love God without doing it freely?), brought evil into the world by sinning. This is referred to as “The Fall” and signifies the event in human history where sin was first brought into the all-good world that God created (This first sin is referred to as Original Sin). When exactly this happened is not known, and will probaby never be known. After The Fall, suffering entered the world. Thus an all-good God and the suffering of the world are reconciled.

If any part of my response confuses you (it is a very short form of a long argument), feel free to either respond in this thread or send me a message.

God Bless!

Thsnk you too for your response.

But we as a human race SHOULD NOT have to suffer because of Adam and Eve’s “sin”. That’s unfair and really inconsiderate, if you know what I mean.

Or, the reason why suffering exits is because either your Catholic beliefs are true, OR, because God doesn’t exist.

But what exactly is evil? Or, is that a human concept? Does all evil come from free will???

Did evil exist before humanity existed? Is it “evil” when a star swells up at the end of its life, only to expand so enormous that it “gobbles” up its planetary system? Is it “evil” when the surface of Venus is approx. 800 degrees F., and full of sulfur and other poisionous stuff (hey, it would be “evil” to living beings like us!), a real hell pretty much? Is it “evil” when a wolf kills and eats a doe? Is it “evil” when a tornado strikes? What about parasites that can kill its host? What about fire burning houses? Or a great white shark tearing off a human limb?

Are all the above “evil” or just laws of nature? Can laws of nature be “evil”?

 

[fhansen]

Hello everyone, I’m new to this forum…but I must say I’m agnostic. Why? Lots of reasons.

I am someone who cant accept anything unless it makes sense…yet I’m one who can also say anything is possible - but the latter would just depend.

I have questions. Lots of questions. Too many questions. I dont know where to start exactly LOL.

Maybe you guys could tell me WHY you believe in God and how do you know for sure your beliefs are in touch with reality.

But in the meantime, I’ll ask a question.

I have always asked this question to myself and it is uncomfortable to ponder about but you have to always ask.

If God is all-everything (all-knowing, powerful, can do anything, etc.), and he really cares for ALL of humanity, and gives blessings, why can’t he evenly spread those blessing to all? In other words, why can he bless a country like America as a whole but leaves a third-world country like Haiti in devastating poverty?? Remember, God is all-powerful, all good.

Is God unfair? And does God have a justified reason to let people starve to death or live in nasty slums? Did God forget those people are really no different than Americans?

Or, is God dead or just plain imaginary?

Or, could we look at this with a scientific approach?

So, can you convince me otherwise? Convince me that God is real.

Life’s not fair-we’ll all agree with that, I think. But often those whom life has treated the worst are also the strongest believers. And the fat and pampered minority, like so many of us in the west, tend towards atheism more easily. In any case, no one can convince you of Gods’ reality. Only God can do that, if we’re willing.

 

[M31]

I will let this picture answer wether or not God is real.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11170&d=1310864355

I wonder WHO really wrote that…either a stupid, pathetic atheist…or, a believer who mocks what atheists believe?

That is a really dumb saying right there. It’s pathetically written without much thought. I almost choked on my drink cuz it’s stupidly funny LOL

 

[M31]

But often those whom life has treated the worst are also the strongest believers. .

True but that’s only if they believe in God.

I’ve been through hell but that doesn’t mean I’m going to believe in God. Sure, it made me a stronger person but it didn’t make me a believer.

 

[wisdomseeker]

True but that’s only if they believe in God.

I’ve been through hell but that doesn’t mean I’m going to believe in God. Sure, it made me a stronger person but it didn’t make me a believer.

This only proves that the grace of God extend to all. The only problem is when one die. either he goes to Heaven or to hell.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hello everyone, I’m new to this forum…but I must say I’m agnostic. Why? Lots of reasons.

I am someone who cant accept anything unless it makes sense…yet I’m one who can also say anything is possible - but the latter would just depend.

I have questions. Lots of questions. Too many questions. I dont know where to start exactly LOL.

Maybe you guys could tell me WHY you believe in God and how do you know for sure your beliefs are in touch with reality.

But in the meantime, I’ll ask a question.

I have always asked this question to myself and it is uncomfortable to ponder about but you have to always ask.

If God is all-everything (all-knowing, powerful, can do anything, etc.), and he really cares for ALL of humanity, and gives blessings, why can’t he evenly spread those blessing to all? In other words, why can he bless a country like America as a whole but leaves a third-world country like Haiti in devastating poverty?? Remember, God is all-powerful, all good.

Is God unfair? And does God have a justified reason to let people starve to death or live in nasty slums? Did God forget those people are really no different than Americans?

Or, is God dead or just plain imaginary?

Or, could we look at this with a scientific approach?

So, can you convince me otherwise? Convince me that God is real.

God doesnt think like we do. if you believe many things, why it is so hard for you to believe that there is a God who created all things?

Can you say that a human is in control of anything? probably not. when we realize our limitations, it will become much easier for you to come to a better understanding of our God.

An imagenary God? hummmm…! are you saying that we are all a bunch of nuts, a people who don’t know reality from fantasy? that seems to be quite a claim, dont you think?

 

[Heuchler]

M31, you believe in free will, right? So, we believe God created free will because he wants his creatures to truly love him. If we had no choice in if we loved him or not we would not have free will. If the world was designed to where hail only fell on the evil and the good physically could not starve, then free will would be a joke. Would you ever be agnostic if you were in the rain and hail and you were getting pelted, yet you look across the road to see a christian strolling along without a drop of rain on him. Free will would be destroyed if the world was perfect for the good and pure hell for the evil.

To answer a question you posed above, the laws of nature are not evil. They leave the potential for evil. The fire you light in your house is pleasant and serves its purpose. However, when things are neglected that fire can spread throughout the house. Now you do not blame the fire. The fire has no free will. It only reacts to whatever stimulus we provide it. If we put the carpet in the fire do we blame the fire for doing what it is designed to do: to spread to whatever new fuel we put in there. We look at the wolf who eats to live. The doe does not have a soul. The wolf does not have a soul. They are both working through instincts and can’t be held responsible. It is not an evil thing. If eating to survive was evil, then everytime you ate a steak you should be offended at yourself.

 

[jochoa]

Excellent Questions, I would like to attempt to answer this question:

WHY you believe in God and how do you know for sure your beliefs are in touch with reality.

Using the Scientific Method and Analysis of the Greatest Commandment
Question: What is the Best Method to achieve the Greatest Peace, Happiness, and Longevity among the self and/or society?
Background Research
A. Matthew 22:36-38 - paraphrased for simplicity of argument, “Love God”
B. 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 - paraphrased for simplicity, “Love is patient and kind”
C. Jesus’ Crucifixion
Hypothesis[paraphrased Greatest Commandment]: To achieve the greatest culmination of peace, happiness, and longevity among the self and/or society, Always be Patient and Kind, with God as Motivation, as Jesus Did.

Scientific Analysis of [paraphrased] Greatest Commandment
Humans have desires, a conscience, will, and learn from role models.
Desires of the culmination of peace, happiness, and longevity include health, celebration, fun, daily energy, earthly lifespan, remembrance lifespan, offspring/societal lifespan, and ever-lasting.
The conscience is a combination of motivations, as generated by the self, others, and authority (spouse, parents, employers, God). If the motivation overly considers the self, there is a strong tendency to cause stress in others, then strife in relationships. If the motivation overly considers others, there is a strong tendency to cause fatigue in the self, stress in the self, and strife in relationships. If the motivation overly considers an authority other than God, it will be inferior to God, and therefore lack in some aspect of consideration. God is the best motivation because God’s Love is Perfectly Considerate and Inexhaustible.
Because Jesus was a human, who also had to learn to understand and practice God’s Love, perfectly role modeled how to demonstrate unconditional patience and kindness in the face of unjust hatred, and revealed the amazing peace, happiness, and longevity he obtained and spread, Jesus is the Perfect Role Model.
Combining the three aspects from above of desires, conscience, and knowledge, what is willed is generated. The greatest will is to Always be Patient and Kind. To simply test this, 1. Be either impatient or mean, and 2. see how much peace and happiness are generated both during the act and after in all those affected.

I greatly appreciate your thought-provoking question! I am very interested in your thoughts and critiques. Thank you very much for your time and consideration!

 

[thistle]

Hello everyone, I’m new to this forum…but I must say I’m agnostic. Why? Lots of reasons.

I am someone who cant accept anything unless it makes sense…yet I’m one who can also say anything is possible - but the latter would just depend.

I have questions. Lots of questions. Too many questions. I dont know where to start exactly LOL.

Maybe you guys could tell me WHY you believe in God and how do you know for sure your beliefs are in touch with reality.

But in the meantime, I’ll ask a question.

I have always asked this question to myself and it is uncomfortable to ponder about but you have to always ask.

If God is all-everything (all-knowing, powerful, can do anything, etc.), and he really cares for ALL of humanity, and gives blessings, why can’t he evenly spread those blessing to all? In other words, why can he bless a country like America as a whole but leaves a third-world country like Haiti in devastating poverty?? Remember, God is all-powerful, all good.

Is God unfair? And does God have a justified reason to let people starve to death or live in nasty slums? Did God forget those people are really no different than Americans?

Or, is God dead or just plain imaginary?

Or, could we look at this with a scientific approach?

So, can you convince me otherwise? Convince me that God is real.

I recommend the following books:

Making Sense Out Of Suffering by Peter Kreeft.
Arise From Darkness by Father Benedict Groschel.
Why Does God Permit Evil by Dom Bruno Webb.

 

[starsmurf]

Hi M31

I’m assuming because of the username that you are a fellow astronomer (beautiful galaxy isn’t it?) If I’m wrong in this, sorry!

As a scientist (astronomy/astrophysics) I hope I can help you a little. I understand the need for “proof”. If you come from a scientific perspective, some of what’s been said isn’t much help. I’m also annoyed by the posting of that “Atheism” picture, it is stupid and arrogant and doesn’t make sense. Your beliefs should be treated with the same respect I would want mine to be.

On the “why suffering” topic, as others have said, much of our suffering is because of the actions of humans, not due to natural reasons. The poverty in Haiti, the famine in East Africa, etc. all of these would not be causing suffering if we shared what we have. Poverty in Haiti? Lets send money and materials for rebuilding. Famine in countries in East Africa? OK, lets send them money to buy what food exists and share it and then we’ll send more food. All of this could be done if we weren’t so selfish. The famine in East Africa is almost certainly caused by global warming disrupting weather patterns, so it has been caused by human greed and selfishness. People died of starvation after the Haiti earthquake but the US military felt it was more important to unload months of supplies for their people including pallets of laundry powder, while planes full of water, food and tents for the survivors circled endlessly. Many had to land at other airports in the Dominican Republic and then try to move supplies by land but that took days. God didn’t curse Haiti, it had great resources, it was politics that sent it into poverty.

Why doesn’t God overcome human greed and make food and water magically appear? Why does a God of love allow earthquakes to happen anyway? To answer the second question first, to be habitable, it seems that a planet needs plate tectonics, so therefore it “needs” earthquakes. As to the first, why doesn’t God perform miracles to stop suffering, can I answer that with an example from my own life? I hope that it will make sense to you.

I suffer from a rare disease, that I’ve had since I was seven years old. It gives me excruciating pain in my feet at night, like I’m being tortured by having them held in boiling oil and injected with acid in hundreds of places. When I was a kid, I would scream in agony, beg to die, beg to have my legs cut off to stop the pain. About once a month, I would get an infection in my legs because I would place my feet in iced water to stop the pain, causing the skin to crack, allowing infection to enter. When I got an infection the pain would get even worse. Even with my feet in ice, I would still be screaming in pain. when that happened, my dad would call one of his fellow doctors, who would come out to the house and give me an injection of the drug, similar to morphine, used for women in labour (but 2-4 times the dose, that’s how painful it was, and I was a small 7-year-old!). I would go to sleep within twenty minutes.

Now, imagine someone who’s been watching all this. They suddenly discover my dad is a doctor and has that very drug in his case downstairs. He has needles, syringes and the ability to give the injection. If it works when the pain is so terrible, it would work when the pain isn’t so bad. How can he sit there night after night watching a child suffer so terribly, when he can go downstairs and get the drug and stop my pain? What kind of loving father could do that?

The reason he didn’t give me the injection is because of what the drug would do to me. It is addictive, it made me woozy the next day, stopping me from attending school or playing in the few hours I was free from pain. That would have stopped me learning and growing. If he had given me the drug every night, I would become used to it and need higher and higher doses, until they couldn’t give me any more because it would kill me. Then what could they do for the pain? What would happen when I got an infection? It was love that stopped my dad giving me the drug, and it must have hurt him terribly to watch me suffer so much and know that relief was available. It would’ve been so easy to say “just this once…”

I think it is a similar reason that stops God from performing miracles all the time. He loves us and it must hurt Him to see us suffer. It is like that drug, we would become “addicted” to miracles, we would want them all the time, for smaller and smaller reasons. We would become dependant on them, with no responsibility and no learning. This isn’t our “permenant” home, we are actually meant for Heaven, to be close to God. If there were constant miracles, there would be no suffering, so how could we cope when a loved one died? Even if everyone died at a ripe old age and we knew they were in Heaven, it would still hurt. Without smaller sufferings to teach us to cope, we would be destroyed by the pain.

I hope that makes sense. Will continue in another post, this one’s long enough!

 

[stormyweather]

To answer a question you posed above, the laws of nature are not evil. They leave the potential for evil. The fire you light in your house is pleasant and serves its purpose. However, when things are neglected that fire can spread throughout the house. Now you do not blame the fire. The fire has no free will. It only reacts to whatever stimulus we provide it. If we put the carpet in the fire do we blame the fire for doing what it is designed to do: to spread to whatever new fuel we put in there. We look at the wolf who eats to live. The doe does not have a soul. The wolf does not have a soul. They are both working through instincts and can’t be held responsible. It is not an evil thing. If eating to survive was evil, then everytime you ate a steak you should be offended at yourself.

Hi M31
On the “why suffering” topic, as others have said, much of our suffering is because of the actions of humans, not due to natural reasons. The poverty in Haiti, the famine in East Africa, etc. all of these would not be causing suffering if we shared what we have. Poverty in Haiti? Lets send money and materials for rebuilding. Famine in countries in East Africa? OK, lets send them money to buy what food exists and share it and then we’ll send more food. All of this could be done if we weren’t so selfish. The famine in East Africa is almost certainly caused by global warming disrupting weather patterns, so it has been caused by human greed and selfishness. People died of starvation after the Haiti earthquake but the US military felt it was more important to unload months of supplies for their people including pallets of laundry powder, while planes full of water, food and tents for the survivors circled endlessly. Many had to land at other airports in the Dominican Republic and then try to move supplies by land but that took days. God didn’t curse Haiti, it had great resources, it was politics that sent it into poverty.

Why doesn’t God overcome human greed and make food and water magically appear? Why does a God of love allow earthquakes to happen anyway? To answer the second question first, to be habitable, it seems that a planet needs plate tectonics, so therefore it “needs” earthquakes. As to the first, why doesn’t God perform miracles to stop suffering, can I answer that with an example from my own life? I hope that it will make sense to you.

...Now, imagine someone who's been watching all this.  They suddenly discover my dad is a doctor and has that very drug in his case downstairs.  He has needles, syringes and the ability to give the injection.  If it works when the pain is so terrible, it would work when the pain isn't so bad.  How can he sit there night after night watching a child suffer so terribly, when he can go downstairs and get the drug and stop my pain?  What kind of loving father could do that?

The reason he didn't give me the injection is because of what the drug would do to me.  It is addictive, it made me woozy the next day, stopping me from attending school or playing in the few hours I was free from pain.  That would have stopped me learning and growing.  If he had given me the drug every night, I would become used to it and need higher and higher doses, until they couldn't give me any more because it would kill me.  Then what could they do for the pain?  What would happen when I got an infection?  It was love that stopped my dad giving me the drug, and it must have hurt him terribly to watch me suffer so much and know that relief was available.  It would've been so easy to say "just this once..."

I think it is a similar reason that stops God from performing miracles all the time.  He loves us and it must hurt Him to see us suffer.  It is like that drug, we would become "addicted" to miracles, we would want them all the time, for smaller and smaller reasons.  We would become dependant on them, with no responsibility and no learning.  This isn't our "permenant" home, we are actually meant for Heaven, to be close to God.  If there were constant miracles, there would be no suffering, so how could we cope when a loved one died?  Even if everyone died at a ripe old age and we knew they were in Heaven, it would still hurt.  Without smaller sufferings to teach us to cope, we would be destroyed by the pain.

I hope that makes sense.  Will continue in another post, this one's long enough! :blush:

Amen!!!
I could honestly not have put it any better way! Even though I am already a devout Catholic these two replies really clarified some issues for me!
Seriously amazing answers right here! God is truly working through you.

God bless and guide you both! Keep up the amazing work!

And M13, I hope you find the answers to all your questions, and that you find God to be the truly amazing God he is. May He guide you throughout your life and show you the truth. I will keep you in my prayers!

In Christ Jesus,
~Katie :knight1:

 

[M31]

This only proves that the grace of God extend to all. The only problem is when one die. either he goes to Heaven or to hell.

Huh??

Uh, it would prove that either the grace of God DOESN’T extend to all or that he doesn’t exist. I’m not quite sure what you’re saying.

Your God is NOT loving or merciful if one goes to hell for not believing. I find that quite narrow-minded and even evil.

A God who’s infinite would not let hell exist for eternity.

 

[noobio]

Huh??

Your God is NOT loving or merciful if one goes to hell for not believing. I find that quite narrow-minded and even evil.

A God who’s infinite would not let hell exist for eternity.

You chose not to believe, and chose not to be in his presence ( Heaven) so, wouldn’t it make sense for a non-believer to be absent from God ( Hell).

 

[M31]

God doesnt think like we do. if you believe many things, why it is so hard for you to believe that there is a God who created all things?

Can you say that a human is in control of anything? probably not. when we realize our limitations, it will become much easier for you to come to a better understanding of our God.

An imagenary God? hummmm…! are you saying that we are all a bunch of nuts, a people who don’t know reality from fantasy? that seems to be quite a claim, dont you think?

If God doesn’t think like us, then he may not exist at all. Maybe he didn’t mean to save humanity from sin. Religious people say that “we don’t know God’s ways” and if that’s the case, how do you know he has ways?

If God doesn’t think like we do, then maybe we should be careful about saying things
about him, no?

If God exists, why can’t he talk to us personally…and through a book or oeople that claim to speak for him? If he wants people to find him, then he needs to show people himself without using others or the book! That is, if he’s real.

I’m not saying you guys are nut cases. It’s just a question to ponder about too. It’s possible but then again, maybe it’s not.

But then again, we live in a universe where nothing is ever certain…or is it?