Could your Jesus be the Messiah?

[Mailman]

When the Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign from heaven as proof that He was the promised Messiah, Jesus said He would give only one sign, and only one.

“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign; and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS in the heart of the earth” (Matt. 12:38-40).

Consider the overwhelming significance of Jesus’ statement. He expressly declared that the only sign He would give to prove He was the Messiah was that He should be just three days and three nights in the grave. Jesus’ proof, or evidence, was not the fact of the resurrection itself. It was the length of time He would be in the grave, before being resurrected.

But the Jesus the Christian world worships today was entombed late Friday afternoon and rose early Sunday morning, making His stay in the grave only one day and two nights. Could this Jesus be the Messiah when the Messiah’s only sign was not fulfilled?

 

[NotWorthy]

In the Jewish counting system, Jesus was in the tomb the required times. Friday ends at Sundown. Notice how the authors of the synoptics make it clear that Jesus had to be in the tomb before the Sabbath? The Sabbath began at Friday at Sundown. Now, even if He was laid to rest 3 minutes before sundown, that would count as an entire day to the Jews. Hence Friday was day 1. Of course, Jesus was in the tomb the entire time Saturday (Sabbath) which makes it day 2. And then as soon as Saturday’s sundown began, day 3, even if Jesus rose a couple of minutes after sundown (which He didn’t. It was Sunday morning).

So, according to our brother Jews, Jesus fulfilled this prophecy completely… unless one goes with Caiaphas’ lie that the body was stolen!

 

[NHInsider]

But the Jesus the Christian world worships today was entombed late Friday afternoon and rose early Sunday morning, making His stay in the grave only one day and two nights. Could this Jesus be the Messiah when the Messiah’s only sign was not fulfilled?

And so - you deny that Jesus is the Messiah? But call yourself a Christian? Are you preaching another gospel?

 

[JRKH]

In the Jewish counting system, Jesus was in the tomb the required times. Friday ends at Sundown. Notice how the authors of the synoptics make it clear that Jesus had to be in the tomb before the Sabbath? The Sabbath began at Friday at Sundown. Now, even if He was laid to rest 3 minutes before sundown, that would count as an entire day to the Jews. Hence Friday was day 1. Of course, Jesus was in the tomb the entire time Saturday (Sabbath) which makes it day 2. And then as soon as Saturday’s sundown began, day 3, even if Jesus rose a couple of minutes after sundown (which He didn’t. It was Sunday morning).

So, according to our brother Jews, Jesus fulfilled this prophecy completely… unless one goes with Caiaphas’ lie that the body was stolen!

Help me out here. The quoted passage says three days and tree nights.
I’m still not sure I see this though
Jesus is place in tomb before sunset (day 1)
Sun sets - Saturday begins - (night 1)
Sun Rises on Saturday - (day 2)
Sun sets - Sunday begins - (night 2)
Sun Rises on Sunday (Christ Rising about this time) - (Day 3)

I see three days but only two nights here.

Peace
James

 

[fermat]

In the Jewish counting system, Jesus was in the tomb the required times. Friday ends at Sundown. Notice how the authors of the synoptics make it clear that Jesus had to be in the tomb before the Sabbath? The Sabbath began at Friday at Sundown. Now, even if He was laid to rest 3 minutes before sundown, that would count as an entire day to the Jews. Hence Friday was day 1. Of course, Jesus was in the tomb the entire time Saturday (Sabbath) which makes it day 2. And then as soon as Saturday’s sundown began, day 3, even if Jesus rose a couple of minutes after sundown (which He didn’t. It was Sunday morning).

So, according to our brother Jews, Jesus fulfilled this prophecy completely… unless one goes with Caiaphas’ lie that the body was stolen!

My favorite way of explaining this:
I tell you to go to the well and bring back 2 1/2 gallons of water. How many gallon buckets are you going to take?

 

[DPMartin]

When the Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign from heaven as proof that He was the promised Messiah, Jesus said He would give only one sign, and only one.

“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign; and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS in the heart of the earth” (Matt. 12:38-40).

Consider the overwhelming significance of Jesus’ statement. He expressly declared that the only sign He would give to prove He was the Messiah was that He should be just three days and three nights in the grave. Jesus’ proof, or evidence, was not the fact of the resurrection itself. It was the length of time He would be in the grave, before being resurrected.

But the Jesus the Christian world worships today was entombed late Friday afternoon and rose early Sunday morning, making His stay in the grave only one day and two nights. Could this Jesus be the Messiah when the Messiah’s only sign was not fulfilled?

Mailman

Maybe the answer to this question is. When did Jesus start His progression into the heart of the earth? Could it be when He was given or officially betrayed in to the hands of man (sinners). Wasn’t He to receive or suffer at the hand of man (sinners) that which man (sinners) are to receive without Him? Like Abel (the first man to experience death) at the hand of Cain. Consider: how many times towns and groups of people sot to destroy Him or stone Him and the like. But it was not His time.

 

[Bishop93]

I don’t believe he was the messiah:thumbsup:

Not only for this reason…Countless reasons.

 

[DPMartin]

I don’t believe he was the messiah:thumbsup:

Not only for this reason…Countless reasons.

Bishop93

Why? Is it that you can’t understand how it is that God values the loser more then the loss, The debtor more then the debt, the sinner more then the sin? Or are you just against the fact that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? And your way is better.

 

[Mailman]

In the Jewish counting system, Jesus was in the tomb the required times. Friday ends at Sundown. Notice how the authors of the synoptics make it clear that Jesus had to be in the tomb before the Sabbath? The Sabbath began at Friday at Sundown. Now, even if He was laid to rest 3 minutes before sundown, that would count as an entire day to the Jews. Hence Friday was day 1. Of course, Jesus was in the tomb the entire time Saturday (Sabbath) which makes it day 2. And then as soon as Saturday’s sundown began, day 3, even if Jesus rose a couple of minutes after sundown (which He didn’t. It was Sunday morning).

So, according to our brother Jews, Jesus fulfilled this prophecy completely… unless one goes with Caiaphas’ lie that the body was stolen!

Jesus did not just say “on the third day I will rise again,” or “I will be three days in the grave.” He was specific this time that He would be “three days and three nights” in the tomb.

 

[Mailman]

And so - you deny that Jesus is the Messiah? But call yourself a Christian? Are you preaching another gospel?

No, I don’t deny Jesus is the Messiah. My question was directed to those who believe in a Jesus who was buried Friday afternoon and rose Sunday morning because that Jesus did not fulfill the sign of the Messiah.

 

[Qoheleth]

No, I don’t deny Jesus is the Messiah. My question was directed to those who believe in a Jesus who was buried Friday afternoon and rose Sunday morning because that Jesus did not fulfill the sign of the Messiah.

LOL…YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT THE EARLY CHRISTIANS WHO WERE FOR THE MOST PART JEWS DIDNT KNOW HOW TO COUNT ROFL
AND THEREFORE BLEW THE UNDERSTANDING WHO THE MESSIAH WAS LOL …WHEW.

thanks for clearing that up

 

[JRKH]

“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign; and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be THREE DAYS **AND THREE NIGHTS **in the heart of the earth” (Matt. 12:38-40).

Originally Posted by NotWorthy
In the Jewish counting system, Jesus was in the tomb the required times. Friday ends at Sundown. Notice how the authors of the synoptics make it clear that Jesus had to be in the tomb before the Sabbath? The Sabbath began at Friday at Sundown. Now, even if He was laid to rest 3 minutes before sundown, that would count as an entire day to the Jews. Hence Friday was day 1. Of course, Jesus was in the tomb the entire time Saturday (Sabbath) which makes it day 2. And then as soon as Saturday’s sundown began, day 3, even if Jesus rose a couple of minutes after sundown (which He didn’t. It was Sunday morning).

I hope Notworthy - or someone else will come by soon to help explain how my counting is wrong and why. I still don’t see where the missing night is.
This is causing me some concern.

Peace
James

 

[NHInsider]

No, I don’t deny Jesus is the Messiah. My question was directed to those who believe in a Jesus who was buried Friday afternoon and rose Sunday morning because that Jesus did not fulfill the sign of the Messiah.

So where do you find “your Jesus” as distinct from “my Jesus?” And how many other things do you think you’ve discovered that everyone else is wrong about?

 

[qchi]

“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign;
First, consider this,so it does not apply to you,let us not label ourselves “evil and adulterous”

…and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS in the heart of the earth” (Matt. 12:38-40).
My bible (Good News) does not say three nights, but three days and i believe that was fulfilled. even in Jonah (1:17) “…a large fish swallowed Jonah, and he was inside the fish for THREE DAYS AND NIGHTS”,three nights not specified.

Jesus did spend three complete days in the “depths of the earth”, John 20:19 …it was late that sunday evening…" this was when he appeared to the disciples.

If you believe in the Baptism of Jesus,and events during the baptism,and the words spoken thus "this is my dear son with whom i am pleased"
what more do we need, but Faith “…to be sure of things hoped for, to be CERTAIN of the things we cannot see”
Have you ever been given something by Jesus, if you have then why do you still question?

 

[NotWorthy]

I hope Notworthy - or someone else will come by soon to help explain how my counting is wrong and why. I still don’t see where the missing night is.
This is causing me some concern.

Peace
James

Sorry, I’ve been writing a paper for a talk that I’m having to give next week at a retreat. I saw something recently that addressed this. I’ll see if I can find it again.

But do not let your heart be troubled.

 

[Mailman]

Help me out here. The quoted passage says three days and three nights.
I’m still not sure I see this though
Jesus is place in tomb before sunset (day 1)
Sun sets - Saturday begins - (night 1)
Sun Rises on Saturday - (day 2)
Sun sets - Sunday begins - (night 2)
Sun Rises on Sunday (Christ Rising about this time) - (Day 3)

I see three days but only two nights here.

Peace
James

It’s not even that. Jesus would be in the tomb only one day and two nights.

Notice that when Jesus was placed in the tomb, that day was about to close therefore that day (daylight part of that day) should not be included in the count.

Also, when the women visited the tomb, it was “very early in the morning” (Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1), “when it was yet dark” (John 20:1). In other words, the sun was just about to rise or had just started to rise when the women arrived. But at that point in time, Jesus had already risen because “they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher” (Luke 24:2) and “found not the body of the Lord Jesus” (Luke 24:3).

The resurrection therefore happened before the sun rose that Sunday morning, so we should also not include the daylight part of Sunday in our count. Notice that no one witnessed the actual resurrection itself. It could have occurred Saturday night and this would still be consistent with the gospel records.

 

[Mailman]

My favorite way of explaining this:
I tell you to go to the well and bring back 2 1/2 gallons of water. How many gallon buckets are you going to take?

Three. But I don’t see how that can explain why Jesus did not remain buried for the exact length of time He said He would remain buried.

Consider this. If Lucia, one of the Fatima children, had declared that the only proof she has for us that it was indeed Mary who appeared to them, is that three days and three nights after her burial a white pigeon would perch on top of her tombstone, but that a white pigeon was seen instead on only the second day, do you think you would believe her story?

 

[Mailman]

Mailman

Maybe the answer to this question is. When did Jesus start His progression into the heart of the earth? Could it be when He was given or officially betrayed in to the hands of man (sinners). Wasn’t He to receive or suffer at the hand of man (sinners) that which man (sinners) are to receive without Him? Like Abel (the first man to experience death) at the hand of Cain. Consider: how many times towns and groups of people sot to destroy Him or stone Him and the like. But it was not His time.

Even if we consider Jesus’ betrayal as the start of His progression into the “heart of the earth” His actual time in the heart of the earth would still begin at the moment of His actual entombment. The parallel is clearly that as Jonah was “entombed” in the whale’s belly three days and three nights, Jesus would likewise be entombed “in the heart of the earth” three days and three nights.

 

[Bishop93]

It’s not even that. Jesus would be in the tomb only one day and two nights.

Notice that when Jesus was placed in the tomb, that day was about to close therefore that day (daylight part of that day) should not be included in the count.

Also, when the women visited the tomb, it was “very early in the morning” (Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1), “when it was yet dark” (John 20:1). In other words, the sun was just about to rise or had just started to rise when the women arrived. But at that point in time, Jesus had already risen because “they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher” (Luke 24:2) and “found not the body of the Lord Jesus” (Luke 24:3).

The resurrection therefore happened before the sun rose that Sunday morning, so we should also not include the daylight part of Sunday in our count.Notice that no one witnessed the actual resurrection itself.It could have occurred Saturday night and this would still be consistent with the gospel records.

You said…“Notice that no one witnessed the actual resurrection itself”.

Exactly ^^^

Jesus could have gotten up and walked away for all we know.

 

[NotWorthy]

It’s not even that. Jesus would be in the tomb only one day and two nights.

Notice that when Jesus was placed in the tomb, that day was about to close therefore that day (daylight part of that day) should not be included in the count.

Also, when the women visited the tomb, it was “very early in the morning” (Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1), “when it was yet dark” (John 20:1). In other words, the sun was just about to rise or had just started to rise when the women arrived. But at that point in time, Jesus had already risen because “they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher” (Luke 24:2) and “found not the body of the Lord Jesus” (Luke 24:3).

The resurrection therefore happened before the sun rose that Sunday morning, so we should also not include the daylight part of Sunday in our count. Notice that no one witnessed the actual resurrection itself. It could have occurred Saturday night and this would still be consistent with the gospel records.

I think our good Mailman is going to tell us that the Sabbath fell on a Friday that year (14th of Nisan?) and that Jesus died on a Thursday.

Am I spoiling your surprise?