Couples getting civil marriages while going through annulment process

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rcwitness

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In reading articles and comments from Catholics, I’ve noticed a large number of Catholics doing this! That is, while they are waiting for a finding from the Tribunal, they proceed with a civil marriage and live together.

I find this absolutely strange and terrible! Does anyone else see this going on? Does the Tribunal see this? What do you think?
 
rcwitness said:
In reading articles and comments from Catholics, I’ve noticed a large number of Catholics doing this! That is, while they are waiting for a finding from the Tribunal, they proceed with a civil marriage and live together.

I find this absolutely strange and terrible! Does anyone else see this going on? Does the Tribunal see this? What do you think?
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Really? What does “large number” mean?

It is not unusual for a Catholic to have married, divorced, and then be in a subsequent, civil union…then, years later, approach a Tribunal to try and see if a regularization of status is possible.

Personally, I have not been assigned to many cases where a Catholic is in the midst of a nullity process and attempts a civil union. Paperwork from the Tribunal will always say something like “do not schedule a marriage until you are, if possible, declared free to marry.” Nevertheless, if a person goes to the courthouse and tries to marry after having submitted testimony, this is something about which the Tribunal may never be told. I don’t imagine that it is something the person is eager to reveal to the Tribunal.

I have seen a few cases where a person did what you are talking about…and then they marry “in the Church” after the nullity process is complete. Then, *that *marriage ends in divorce and there the person is, at the Tribunal again, with another petition.

Dan
 
Well, that’s people for you - choosing to live in ways they think will make them happy even if it doesn’t conform with what is expected of them by the Catholic Church.

But short of excommunication or denying them the Sacraments, what can be done about it? Not much, really, seeing as how there’s no secular authority that will enforce Church doctrine here in the US.

I guess we should all try to be a good example for others so that they see the benefits that accrue from living according to Church Teachings.
 
dans0622 said:
Really? What does “large number” mean?
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fair enough. I don’t know for certain if it’s really a large percentage. I would say, reading through a dozen stories, maybe 3-4. And even the author of this book (
amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1681921340/ref=oh_aui_i_d_old_o1_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1).
It is not unusual for a Catholic to have married, divorced, and then be in a subsequent, civil union…then, years later, approach a Tribunal to try and see if a regularization of status is possible.
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Yes. More funny business, but not to the degree of getting a civil marriage while awaiting the Church’s approval of marrying anew.
Personally, I have not been assigned to many cases where a Catholic is in the midst of a nullity process and attempts a civil union. Paperwork from the Tribunal will always say something like “do not schedule a marriage until you are, if possible, declared free to marry.” Nevertheless, if a person goes to the courthouse and tries to marry after having submitted testimony, this is something about which the Tribunal may never be told. I don’t imagine that it is something the person is eager to reveal to the Tribunal.
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That’s good to hear. But adds to the disfunction of these people doing it.
I have seen a few cases where a person did what you are talking about…and then they marry “in the Church” after the nullity process is complete. Then, *that *marriage ends in divorce and there the person is, at the Tribunal again, with another petition.
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That’s the huge disfunction I’m talking about. It’s a strange thing that people have this mindset when approaching God!
 
TechieGuy said:
Well, that’s people for you - choosing to live in ways they think will make them happy even if it doesn’t conform with what is expected of them by the Catholic Church.

But short of excommunication or denying them the Sacraments, what can be done about it? Not much, really, seeing as how there’s no secular authority that will enforce Church doctrine here in the US.

I guess we should all try to be a good example for others so that they see the benefits that accrue from living according to Church Teachings.
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I agree. And I’m a foolish person too. I did get a civil union 6 months before my Church wedding, at the request of my priest. My fiancé had a visa that required us to marry before expiring. We then, did live together before our Sacramental marriage. I eventually saw this as wrong, and did confess.

I am not trying to suggest punishment for them. But that we all should educate one another better, to avoid so much disfunction and disrespect to the Sacraments.
 
rcwitness said:
I agree. And I’m a foolish person too. I did get a civil union 6 months before my Church wedding, at the request of my priest. My fiancé had a visa that required us to marry before expiring. We then, did live together before our Sacramental marriage. I eventually saw this as wrong, and did confess.

I am not trying to suggest punishment for them. But that we all should educate one another better, to avoid so much disfunction and disrespect to the Sacraments.
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If there are children involved, it may also serve as a protective measure for those children for their parents to be legally married even if not sacramentally. A good friend of mine was in that situation, and she and the child’s father did commit to living chastely until they could be married in the Church. There was no previous marriage for either of them, but their priest did not want to marry them before the baby was born in case it counted as coercion.

(They remain very happily married today.)
 
rcwitness said:
In reading articles and comments from Catholics, I’ve noticed a large number of Catholics doing this! That is, while they are waiting for a finding from the Tribunal, they proceed with a civil marriage and live together.

I find this absolutely strange and terrible! Does anyone else see this going on? Does the Tribunal see this? What do you think?
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I know of several couples that did this. this is not new, as these were over 12 years ago, before I got married. I don’t know if any of them received a decree of nullity or have convalidated their marriages.

The conversations would start with them saying, “I know this is against church teaching but…”

… we don’t want to wait for X reason

So, yeah, I had this conversation a number of times. Once “love” is in the mix… “reason” goes right out the window.

They were very gracious because most said “I know you probably won’t come to the wedding…” (and they were right) but we are still friends.

All of them have kids and still attend church. I don’t know if they go to communion. I think most of them at least had the decency to refrain. I know they wanted to convalidate, so probably they have now if the decrees were issued. I sure hope so. It’s just not something that gets announced on facebook.
 
1ke said:
I know of several couples that did this. this is not new, as these were over 12 years ago, before I got married. I don’t know if any of them received a decree of nullity or have convalidated their marriages.

The conversations would start with them saying, “I know this is against church teaching but…”

… we don’t want to wait for X reason

So, yeah, I had this conversation a number of times. Once “love” is in the mix… “reason” goes right out the window.

They were very gracious because most said “I know you probably won’t come to the wedding…” (and they were right) but we are still friends.
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it almost makes me wonder why they care about a Catholic marriage in the first place.

I think we tend to try to justify our own wishes so much! We make compromises all the time. The narrow way is so challenging!
 
rcwitness said:
it almost makes me wonder why they care about a Catholic marriage in the first place.

I think we tend to try to justify our own wishes so much! We make compromises all the time. The narrow way is so challenging!
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yep.

sadly.

Where is the glory for God? Does the bride actually love The Groom and make sacrifices for Him? Where is her obedience to Him who put His life down for her? How does she show her love to Him- with platitudes and gushing emotional sayings without actions to back it up? Does she really appreciate Who He is? When people say that His grace is not sufficient and go through with overriding obedience, they tarnish the image of The Lord.

The narrow way is not so bad when you are fully with Christ- Christ Jesus sends His GRACE- It is sufficient. One also understands the narrow way keeps you safe from moral harm. I think the moral harms from this are just accepted these days as ‘normal’ life things to expect and trudge through, but sadly people miss out of what good could have actually been theirs had they obeyed. They tarnish the image of The Lord when they say His grace is not sufficient. Long suffering is no longer something to be put up with. Yet it is one of the fruits and gifts of The Holy Spirit.
 
I’m more familiar with couples not bothering to petition for a decree of nullity than I am with couples marrying while waiting for a decree of nullity.

That said I’ve known one couple who did this. The Pastor had done Marriage Preparation with them and they set the date before they got the notification from the tribunal of first instance. The second instance decision didn’t come in in time so they were married by a judge and a priest who was a friend of the family, and the one who had done the work on the groom’s annulment, gave them a public blessing at that civil ceremony. They married New Year’s Eve. Three days later I got the call from the Vicar General saying that the tribunal of second instance had granted the decree of nullity.

Their marriage was convalidated a few years later, a quick ceremony after Sunday Mass, by our new Pastor, said-same Vicar General.
 
rcwitness said:
I think we tend to try to justify our own wishes so much! We make compromises all the time. The narrow way is so challenging!
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Yes, I agree. One of them has gone on to do IVF. She posts links about IVF all the time now. I have to say that she and her family were always lukewarm-ish. I think she did a lot of stuff with our young adults to try to find a husband.

She met her now husband (divorced Catholic) on a secular dating site.
 
The reality is that today so many people are “unchurched” even if they attend regularly. They simply don’t see what is wrong with what they are doing. The fact is, if they were Protestant none of this would matter so they view it as just “Catholic paperwork.”
 
Hubby and I did marry civilly while waiting for a declaration of nullity.

Yes, we were both Catholic. Yes, we did understand what the Church teaches.

BUT.

We did so out of our own weakness. We recognized that had we waited for the declaration of nullity, there was a good chance I would be my husband’s mistress by the time we received it. I decided I’d rather be his wife, even if it was only his civil wife.

We recognized that the evidence was overwhelmingly in favour of nullity. Hubby’s ex told him (and stated to a witness that she had said this) that as far as she was concerned, marriage was glorified common-law with ceremonial benefits attached to it, that the vows she took were purely ceremonial and symbolic, and if she wasn’t happy, she was free to walk away. (Hubby and his ex were not Catholic when they married and were married in a civil ceremony. They converted later.)

We did receive a declaration of nullity for Hubby’s first marriage and are now sacramentally married.
 
I think that this is nothing new. It has been going on for a long time. The law of God still applies.
 
Actually this is ecclesiastical law, not the law of God. Official annulments are not required for valid second marriages of non-Catholics.
 
Actually, if someone is divorced and remarried and wants to become Catholic, they need a declaration of nullity before they can be received into the Church. The same is true for a divorced Non-Catholic who wishes to marry a Catholic.
 
True, but that’s not what I was referring to. If a non-Catholic divorces and remarries and the first marriage is annulled the second marriage automatically becomes the presumed valid marriage because the first marriage was never valid. A non-Catholic would have a valid second marriage without ever attaining an annulment.
 
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