- Status
E
EmperorNapoleon
Guest
S
Stylteralmaldo
Guest
What happens to the upkeep of the cemeteries?
P
ProVobis
Guest
$55 million split among 350 abuse victims with now perhaps more coming out of the woodwork to file? Given the right lawyers and no way to hide whatever assets one has, will there be an archdiocese left? Or will it have to merge with another diocese? The Pope is already looking into combining dioceses in Italy. Lots of questions here.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Good question. Comparing this against Dr. Schuller’s (Crystal Cathedral) headstones, it seems that the shoe is now on the other foot, so to speak.
I
Inisfallen
Guest
I’m pretty sure this is just a matter of bankruptcy law, nothing more.
The law prohibits transferring money around to keep it out of the reach of creditors (including plaintiffs in civil suits). It may be that the archdiocese was transferring money from itself to the cemetery upkeep trust to shield it from creditors and potential or actual lawsuit winners.
The law prohibits transferring money around to keep it out of the reach of creditors (including plaintiffs in civil suits). It may be that the archdiocese was transferring money from itself to the cemetery upkeep trust to shield it from creditors and potential or actual lawsuit winners.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Right. In this case, the bankruptcy didn’t buy them much, except to ruin other creditors.
That said, it isn’t unusual for settlements of over $1 million each in places like Chicago. And that’s if they don’t spend the money on extra legal fees.
P
pnewton
Guest
I absolutely despise our civil system of justice, built on obscene punitive damages, greed and legislatures heavily populated with lawyers. Lawyers have their place and are needed, but they have eaten up too large of segment of our economic resources.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Problem is worse when you consider the Church is now turning to municipalities for financing (Chicago has over $100 million in debt) and it behooves them to have as many Catholics as possible in political offices and law to procure this financing. But you find very few Catholic lawyers doing pro bono work.
J
JimG
Guest
Don’t those who have loved ones buried in those cemeteries have a claim on this money too? If the fund is subject to the bankruptcy filing, should they not file a claim for the money in bankruptcy court as well?
P
ProVobis
Guest
As I understand it, the abuse victims have the higher priority. The others can claim whatever’s left over, if anything.
D
Dawnia
Guest
I don’t think the families can make any claims on the money at all and the victims very low on the list of priorities. The reason they were likely fighting for the cemetary funds is that without them, they wouldn’t get much if anything once the higher priority items were paid.
Z
zz912
Guest
You are exactly correct on this. Lawyers are one of the “non-producing” occupations, where they do not produce or create a good or service that increases the wealth of another. There are other occupations like this, but the legal profession is particularly onerous since it drains so much resources from areas that do produce wealth.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Thanks for that link. I’m bookmarking it for future reference.
J
johnnykins
Guest
Maybe, but in the instance of the sexual abuse scandals, if the lawyers hadn’t forced the issues the bishops, priests brothers and nuns would have done zip…as they did for years. It’s a shame that only large monetary awards got the Church to act appropriately. But, that’s what happens when you break the law, abuse children and cover it all up.
The Church is to blame here - not the lawyers. Cardinals wear red to symbolize that they are willing to shed their blood…but God forfend they shed red ink! If anyone has a problem with what’s happening here or other dioceses, complain to the bishops, provincials, priests, brothers and nuns whose actions created this disaster.
S
Stylteralmaldo
Guest
Whenever I see someone state the Church is to blame I always keep in mind that WE are all the Church.
Maybe there is some validity to your statement. Perhaps we are all to blame here to some degree.
One could easily argue that the bishop in charge of the archdiocese right now isn’t to blame since he wasn’t the bishop at the time the cover up took place. One could argue he is by his association with the Church.
Too many silent voices. Not that those voices knew directly necessarily what was happening, but too many silent voices nonetheless.
I’m from this diocese and as a youth I attended a Catholic school where one of the priests there was named as one of the credible cases of child abuse. I served Mass with this priest. I noticed nothing about this priest that seemed out of line. In hindsight, he was a bit intimidating to us kids.
Later I learned that some classmates of mine had parents who said they didn’t trust him around their kids. I wonder why these adults kept this quiet within their private home discussions instead of bringing these things to light to others. Of course gossip is dangerous as well without substantiating evidence.
What’s really been lost in all of this is the prayer life of us all. If all who suspected something was awry would have prayed for discernment, a lot of the pain and suffering of so many involved could have been avoided.
Yet there is still hope in all of this. Prayer is a great place to start.
J
JakeWI
Guest
I was an altar server for a Priest in a diocese in this state that got into trouble with the law due to some questionable things. He ended up removed from our Parish and active duty. Though I notice he is back at another really small Parish. Now I am in this specific arch diocese. There is not much I feel we can do other than pray. I just hope there is a resolution soon. It saddens me to keep seeing this go on. I wish we could move past and forward. I do feel for the people who were involved. It makes me sad to see greedy lawyers make off with so much though.
So much that needs healing and straightening out. I do have faith that the new Priests coming out of the seminary are strong in faith and will at least help in the mend.
So much that needs healing and straightening out. I do have faith that the new Priests coming out of the seminary are strong in faith and will at least help in the mend.
J
johnnykins
Guest
The lawyers need to be commended…greedy or not…for making the clergy and hierarchy take note and act appropriately. If our own clergy, bishops etc., had acted responsibly the lawyers would not be swooping, strike suits would not be filed, many many innocents would not have been damaged, the reputation of the Church would not be lower than those “greedy” lawyers, BUT…all those things have happened because our leaders, our priests, our bishops and others abused children and covered it up for decades and decades.
It was only those “greedy” lawyers forcing them to look at the mess the clergy made and the damage they did - and make them pay cash - that has gotten us anywhere.
Sorry I say, “Hurrah!! for those ‘greedy’ lawyers!!” They are just what we needed to get our leaders, priests and bishops to act responsibly. The Lord works in mysterious ways - including using “greedy” lawyers for a totally good purpose.
If you have a problem with what this has all cost - complain about the Bishops, the priests and other leaders who created this mess and cover-up. The lawyers did us all a favor and deserve to be well paid for their service.
It was only those “greedy” lawyers forcing them to look at the mess the clergy made and the damage they did - and make them pay cash - that has gotten us anywhere.
Sorry I say, “Hurrah!! for those ‘greedy’ lawyers!!” They are just what we needed to get our leaders, priests and bishops to act responsibly. The Lord works in mysterious ways - including using “greedy” lawyers for a totally good purpose.
If you have a problem with what this has all cost - complain about the Bishops, the priests and other leaders who created this mess and cover-up. The lawyers did us all a favor and deserve to be well paid for their service.
P
ProVobis
Guest
That may be but don’t forget where that cash came from. Mostly donations over the years, I would think. Can they count on future donations (and burial revenue) for cash flow?
D
Dawnia
Guest
I disagree. Punishing people who had NOTHING to do with the crimes from decades ago is rather low, even for attorneys. Prior to the lawsuits, the Church had made changes, just like every other organization in the US. The only reason that those attorney’s went after the Church rather than say public schools (which are breeding grounds for pedophiles) is they saw deep pockets.
- Status