Court: No Opt-out of Homosexual Indoctrination in Class for Massachusetts Parents

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I guess my question to you would be: How can you respect somebody if you can’t even tolerate them? And if we don’t tolerate homosexuals in school, how will their children feel? It’s not their fault.
What children?

Homophiles aren’t even supposed to have children, the Church is in fact against homophile adoptions.

Its not our fault either that they are immoral, so why should we be forced to tolerate them?

We don’t have to respect immoral people, we just have to respect their God-given rights, like their right to life. We don’t have to respect anything more than that, certainly not their lifestyle.
 
What children?

Homophiles aren’t even supposed to have children, the Church is in fact against homophile adoptions.

Its not our fault either that they are immoral, so why should we be forced to tolerate them?

We don’t have to respect immoral people, we just have to respect their God-given rights, like their right to life. We don’t have to respect anything more than that, certainly not their lifestyle.
I dislike this kind of radical agenda also, but, I think we have to do more than respect sinners. It’s easy to love the devout Catholic next to us at adoration, but, ‘what glory is there in that’?

It’s one of the hardest parts of Christ’s teachings. Most of us, like me, fail at it; but we ARE called to love our enemies. I struggle with this, but we are called to love Hillary Clinton, abortionists, gay activists, Osama Bin Laden, etc… (I am not lumping these people all in the same category…) We also are more successful when we remain respectful & professional when we try to instruct others.
 
SILVER

Your position on the sinfulness of homosexual acts and other inmoral actions is consistent with Catholic teaching. But your approach to the individual is not consistent with the Church’s teachings today.

You say that Jesus talks about a sword, but his Church condemns violence as a means to combat evil and sin. Is the Church wrong? The Church even has reservations on capital punishment. See the quote I posted above. John Paul II and Benedict XVI have openly said that the US invasion of Iraq was inmoral, even if the end was good.

As to the issue in MA, the Church is not rejecting the homosexual person, it’s rejecting the normalization of an inmoral act by introducing it into the school’s curriculum. Check out Cardinal O’Malley’s blog, the Archbishop of Boston. Observe that the Church always calls us to speak about and treat human beings as brothers and sisters, not as evil. We have no right to judge people’s soul or their character.

How do you suggest we interpret the words of Mother Teresa who was recently beatified and on the fast track to canonization?

“It doesn’t matter if a person is a Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Communist, we are all brothers and sisters and we must love each other and take care of each other.”

When she opened her home for AIDS victims, “I only see Jesus and he is sick.”

Or the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Or the pastoral letter on homosexuality

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

*10. It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.

The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.*

No one is saying that we ignore the sin or that we promote it. However, everyone good and holy person seems to be saying that we love the individual and denounce any form of injustice or action that is demeaning.

There was another pastoral letter issue to families of homosexual people by the Bishops of the United States called ALWAYS OUR CHILDREN in which they denounced separating or excluding their homosexual children from family life as contrary to Christian charity and contrary to what the Church is trying to teach.

I believe that the Church’s moral position on this issue is sound. But it is a stretch to justify negative behavior toward any sinner, “let him who has no sin throw the first stone.” We all have problems that we have to grapple with.
 
If we look at scripture and at the great saints of the Church, neither Jesus nor the saints turned a cold back on people in sinful situations. The dialogue between Jesus and the Samaritan woman is a wonderful example of how we should go about our dealings with those who are in sin. Jesus spells it out for her when he tells her that she has had many men and the one with whom she now lives is also not her husband. But then he extends his hand to her and offers her a life giving water. He does not send her away.
Is this the same woman to whom Jesus says, “Go, and sin no more”? Afterall, that’s all that many people are advocating… Many times the geet accused of being ‘overly judgemental’ on this matter when they advocate the same advice that Jesus did.
 
Is this the same woman to whom Jesus says, “Go, and sin no more”? Afterall, that’s all that many people are advocating… Many times the geet accused of being ‘overly judgemental’ on this matter when they advocate the same advice that Jesus did.
Certainly, he didn’t start a tolerance program for adultery.
 
Is this the same woman to whom Jesus says, “Go, and sin no more”? Afterall, that’s all that many people are advocating… Many times the geet accused of being ‘overly judgemental’ on this matter when they advocate the same advice that Jesus did.
The woman at the well was the Samaritan woman. The woman that you’re thinking about is the woman caught in adultery whom the Jews were about to stone.

That being said, helping people, including ourselves to avoid sin is a good thing. It should be everyone’s mission, not just Catholics. Teaching people what is right and wrong is also a good thing. Informing our govt about right and wrong is equally good and within the proper sphere of the lay person.

Where we sometimes get into trouble is when we identify someone as being engaged in sin, whatever sin, and we fail to treat that person with the same charity, patience, compassion and fraternal love that we would treat others or would want to be treated. None of us is perfect.

While the Church is clearly concerned about the normalization of homosexual relations in the MA curriculum, it is equally concened about safe sex in the curriculum and about the normalization of pre-marital sex among adolescents.

However, it seems that the reaction to anything that involves the term homosexual brings out the worst in many people. If this thread were about safe-sex among adolescents, how many would say that adolescents can be denied the right to healthcare, education, welfare, employment and other rights that they have as human beings and citizens of a nation? The numbers would be small if any. The same is probably true about people who are married, divorced and remarried. We understand the gravity of the situation, be we don’t usually treat these people unkindly or deny them our love.

We have to immitate the Church’s attitude. We must have a no nonsense approach to sin, but an open heart for the person. The Church encourages outreach ministries to homosexual people, their families and even people who are living with AIDS. We run free healthcare programs for them. Do we endourse homosexual behaviour or drug abuse? No. Do we see Christ in the homeless and the sick? Yes.

Some people would want to deny these corporal works of mercy in the name of morality. Jesus healed the sick and acknowledged their sinfulness at the same time. “Your sins are fogiven. Take up your bed and walk.”

He didn’t say, you’re a sinner and not deserving of care.

To return to the point of this thread. The issue is the normalization of a sinful behaviour, not the individuals. The behaviour is not acceptable and should not be taught in school, neither should safe-sex, birth control or pre-marital sex.

I hope this is clearer. Let me know.

Thanks,

JR 🙂
 
Certainly, he didn’t start a tolerance program for adultery.
Indeed, He spoke sternly about leading another into sin. The info reported in the OP link is scandalous and appalling.

It is about desensitization and indoctrination.
 
SILVER

Your position on the sinfulness of homosexual acts and other inmoral actions is consistent with Catholic teaching. But your approach to the individual is not consistent with the Church’s teachings today.

You say that Jesus talks about a sword, but his Church condemns violence as a means to combat evil and sin. Is the Church wrong? The Church even has reservations on capital punishment. See the quote I posted above. John Paul II and Benedict XVI have openly said that the US invasion of Iraq was inmoral, even if the end was good.
Not always, that is why there is a just war doctrine. And that is also why the Church allows violence to prevent evil as in the case of self defense.
As to the issue in MA, the Church is not rejecting the homosexual person, it’s rejecting the normalization of an inmoral act by introducing it into the school’s curriculum. Check out Cardinal O’Malley’s blog, the Archbishop of Boston. Observe that the Church always calls us to speak about and treat human beings as brothers and sisters, not as evil. We have no right to judge people’s soul or their character.
How do you suggest we interpret the words of Mother Teresa who was recently beatified and on the fast track to canonization?
“It doesn’t matter if a person is a Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Communist, we are all brothers and sisters and we must love each other and take care of each other.”
When she opened her home for AIDS victims, “I only see Jesus and he is sick.”
Or the Catechism of the Catholic Church
*2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. *These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
I’d say the Church doesn’t allow unjust discrimination, but these is such as thing as justified and righteous discrimination. That is the only think i am advocating, also Mother Teresa is not requiring everyone to do as she does, its up to you if you want to risk a moral disaster by not staying away from immoral people, others like me will not take that risk.
Or the pastoral letter on homosexuality
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS
10. It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.
The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.
There was another pastoral letter issue to families of homosexual people by the Bishops of the United States called ALWAYS OUR CHILDREN in which they denounced separating or excluding their homosexual children from family life as contrary to Christian charity and contrary to what the Church is trying to teach.
I believe that the Church’s moral position on this issue is sound. But it is a stretch to justify negative behavior toward any sinner, “let him who has no sin throw the first stone.” We all have problems that we have to grapple with.
Some problems are more serious than others, we cannot treat each problem as if they have the same magnitude. Homophilia is of the same magnitude and seriousness as other kinds of sexual deviance like pedophilia.

For the record, i am not advocating commiting violent acts against homophiles, but i am in favor of criminalizing homophile acts under pain of jail time.

As for excluding homophile children from family life, i don’t see how it would even be possible not to, anymore than it would be possible not to exclude pedophilic children from family life, their very sins exclude them from being functional members of the family or of society.

Homophilia is not only a sin and a disorder, it is also dysfunctional.

The only time they can be included again to family life is if they have turned away from their sins.

Even sins like fornication adutery and drug abuse are serious enough to render someone excluded or separated from family life.

We can love sinful individuals, even like bin laden, but we cannot treat them the same way we treat good decent people, we must treat them differently.

Some people may prefer only to look at the good side of people, i for one do not, i look at both, the good and the bad. I look at the totality and the whole person.

The problem with sin is it stains the entire person. Sin begets sin.

The best way to love sinful people is to pray for their conversion.

Making them feel they are accepted or tolerated sends the wrong message, it doesn’ help lead them to the right path.
 
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