Coveting thy neighbors wife?

[passivesquid]

wow! thanks everybody youve all given me somthingto thnk about. (especialy about the job market?)i didnt quite understand how all that related to my stiuation and i appreciate all the concern for my emotional well being. i should be happy tojust to know sucha smart funny and beautiful girl and to coun her as afreind. but i think that i ultimatley hve to follow my own advice and let god show the path.

 

[chevalier]

Those would be three of the four Polish words I know, heh.

And thank you for your kind words above. You didn’t offend me at all! I was just curious to explore the topic a little more, since there was one part of post #10 that didn’t ring quite right to me and I generally find myself in agreement with everything you post.

I think you and Bobby Jim have made a very important point in those last couple posts. To a person with a good heart, there is something so very attractive about making sacrifices for another person, but this tendency can lead one into unhealthy relationships if one doesn’t know what to watch out for–especially romantically speaking. I think you both have some very wise words there and I hope readers will heed them.

Thank you. That has helped. I think I wasn’t careful or charitable enough with post #10. I think I should have worded it differently. Basically, I would like to say I don’t grade people according to their holiness or at least I hope I don’t - I try not to. But this doesn’t mean I would like to get along with certain things in a relationship, so it’s very important to me that any prospective partner repudiate certain very wrong acts - and certain things which the Church doesn’t consider wrong acts but which I have a great difficulty accepting. This is a matter of compatibility but also of avoiding suffering. I don’t want to bow out of all suffering in my life, but there is suffering I can avoid and even some I have the right to avoid. If I seem to be extremely likely to be cheated on, for example, I think I should guard myself from it - or at least I have the right to make some steps to prevent myself from it - this doesn’t even mean making some act as regards the other person, but basically affecting my choice as regards being with that person or not. Besides, in certain cases, I would really be scared. It would be some kind of involuntary reaction. Some things which scare me are wrong, some are not. I would like not to give examples because I wouldn’t like to offend anyone, but let’s just say there are some. I really ought to be more charitable in my posts.

 

[chevalier]

wow! thanks everybody youve all given me somthingto thnk about. (especialy about the job market?)i didnt quite understand how all that related to my stiuation and i appreciate all the concern for my emotional well being. i should be happy tojust to know sucha smart funny and beautiful girl and to coun her as afreind. but i think that i ultimatley hve to follow my own advice and let god show the path.

That sounds right. I’ll pray for you.

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

But this doesn’t mean I would like to get along with certain things in a relationship, so it’s very important to me that any prospective partner repudiate certain very wrong acts - and certain things which the Church doesn’t consider wrong acts but which I have a great difficulty accepting. This is a matter of compatibility but also of avoiding suffering. I don’t want to bow out of all suffering in my life, but there is suffering I can avoid and even some I have the right to avoid. If I seem to be extremely likely to be cheated on, for example, I think I should guard myself from it - or at least I have the right to make some steps to prevent myself from it - this doesn’t even mean making some act as regards the other person, but basically affecting my choice as regards being with that person or not. Besides, in certain cases, I would really be scared. It would be some kind of involuntary reaction. Some things which scare me are wrong, some are not. I would like not to give examples because I wouldn’t like to offend anyone, but let’s just say there are some.

I couldn’t agree more. I’m really glad that you have the gift to be able to articulate this. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the same sort of thing and have sometimes felt guilty about wanting to see particular qualities in a prospective partner, which have little to do with one’s level of holiness. With the way you put it, it’s easy to see how sometimes these “wants” can be perfectly legitimate and do not necessarily arise from a deficit in charity (though I’m sure I have one of those).

Speaking of which…

I really ought to be more charitable in my posts.

… I think you could already give the rest of us some lessons in this subject, sir.

 

[chevalier]

I couldn’t agree more. I’m really glad that you have the gift to be able to articulate this. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the same sort of thing and have sometimes felt guilty about wanting to see particular qualities in a prospective partner, which have little to do with one’s level of holiness. With the way you put it, it’s easy to see how sometimes these “wants” can be perfectly legitimate and do not necessarily arise from a deficit in charity (though I’m sure I have one of those).

Some requirements may be a deficit in charity, especially if they are not very reasonable and very absolute in relatively unimportant matters at the same time, I think. But this comes into play when we actually refuse a person whom we would otherwise not refuse - let’s say we part with a fiance(e) over a minor issue. Or when we somehow disdain people who don’t fit within our expectations. But it’s legitimate to hope for some degree of compatibility or to realise what one is attracted to. I think it also largely boils down to the difference between “not worthy” and “not my type”. It’s important, additionally, to keep in mind we don’t own a relationship or even a date to anyone who just asks. We shouldn’t be selfish, put forth unhuman requirements, dwell on minutiae, but at the same time we have the right to consider our needs and the duty to consider the other person’s needs - so for example, let’s say a girl whom I could never possibly make happy makes moves on me. It’s more charitable of me to deny her that than to grant it, even if I could of course have selfish motives for the former (but I have no duty to date her and the right to skip her in my selection, regardless) or noble for the latter (if catastrophically misguided, most probably). I think girls especially need to bear in mind that it’s not necessarily uncharitable to turn a guy down and that “giving him at least something” is misguided charity. But guys have it too, especially the not wanting to hurt a girl.

… I think you could already give the rest of us some lessons in this subject, sir.

Thank you, madam.

 

[cor]

Desiring her is not a sin unless she were married or betrothed. But I’m 95% sure the Church doesn’t do betrothals anymore (apparently there was a whole liturgy behind it and the promises were binding to some extent).

 

[chevalier]

Promise of marriage used to be impediment to marriage with anyone else, but such a promise cannot substitute consent anyway. At the moment, the closest to it is:

Can. 1062 §1. A promise of marriage, whether unilateral or bilateral, which is called an engagement, is governed by the particular law established by the conference of bishops, after it has considered any existing customs and civil laws.
§2. A promise to marry does not give rise to an action to seek the celebration of marriage; an action to repair damages, however, does arise if warranted.

(here)

I’m not sure to what extent betrothal would make the VI apply more directly… I guess between a boyfriend and a girlfriend, it’s a question of charity when one decides to come in between them. It is important to understand that a boyfriend or girlfriend does nothing wrong sticking to the other in the spirit of expectation of marriage and that the natural right to marry whomever we are free to should be respected - in short, no one owes “a try” to anyone and no one has a say in the choice other than God and the two people. Their mutual obligations should probably be viewed from the perspective of charity and expectation of marriage and the extent to which they emanate on others (i.e. the extent to which other people should be expected to respect the mutual obligations which are between a boyfriend and a girlfriend or whatever word we choose - since the “institution” of boyfriend or girlfriend is a social one and of relatively modern making, whereas it’s only natural that people fall in love and want to marry and have some sort of bond of love) is unclear, but regardless, one doesn’t have an absolute right to come and make moves on a person who has professed certain feelings and made certain arrangements, in my opinion. Charity still applies, so we should be hoping the best for the person. We may have some right to make an offer… it doesn’t seem to me that a boyfriend or girlfriend trumps the natural right in us or in his or her boyfriend or girlfriend. But this should all be exercised with charity. Charity is more important than any rights we may have.