Covid19 vaccine, will we know how it's made

[catholicray]

It’s my opinion that it is financially beneficial for there to not be any sort of treatment. It’s a world pandemic so whoever manufactures a “treatment” stands to gain about 8 billion customers. We shouldn’t be ignorant of such a fact.

There’s also the orange man bad mantra that is ramped up for the election year. There’s political gain to be made from affirming this mantra and if hydroxychloroquine works it would be a major blow to the Democratic party. In fact a confirmation of this treatment would likely destroy the party because it has insisted on shutting down the economy while this treatment would have been available months ago.

Given the research you have shared I think it highly likely that hydroxychloroquine can be used to successfully treat COVID-19 and until the WHO and associates produce a study within the guidelines you mentioned, that shows otherwise, I’ll be keeping that opinion.

 

[buffalo]

They say zinc is the bullet and hydroxy is the gun.

Zinc has been known to frustrate the ability of viruses to attach and invade the cell for a long time.

10 Minutes of Science Hydroxychloroquine

 

[LeafByNiggle]

“In the Henry Ford study, researchers found that hydroxychloroquine combined with the antibiotic drug azithromycin resulted in a 50 percent reduction in deaths among hospitalized COVID-19 patients. After day one of the treatment, a whopping 82 percent of patients began to recover. And after day two, that figure jumped to 91 percent.”

The Henry Ford study was a retrospective study, not a randomized study. Therefore the selection of who got the HCQ treatment and who didn’t was influenced by the doctors’ knowledge of the patient’s condition. That is the problem with all retrospective studies, and if you read the original Henry Ford paper, they qualify their results for exactly that reason. But when you read about the Henry Ford study through the lens of some biased reporter, you will read conclusions drawn from the study that the authors of the study did not intend. My advice with such studies is to skip the pre-digested analysis, especially when it comes from a source with an ax to grind, and go straight to the original unbiased paper. In the case of the Henry Ford paper, the authors specifically say that their results needs to be confirmed by a randomized trial before it can be taken as definitive.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It’s my opinion that it is financially beneficial for there to not be any sort of treatment. It’s a world pandemic so whoever manufactures a “treatment” stands to gain about 8 billion customers.

There is no way any truly effective treatment would be suppressed, regardless of what the conspiracy theorists say.

In fact a confirmation of this treatment would likely destroy the party because it has insisted on shutting down the economy while this treatment would have been available months ago.

The shutdown was spotty and too late - the result of the lack of coherent national strategy. Now the situation is worse than when we shut down and at any time during the pandemic. We most likely will have to shut down again because of the lack of a strategy. 99% of the covid-19 deaths could have been prevented if we had acted in a unified and coherent manner, like several other nations have. It is nonsense to blame everything on the suppression of hydroxychloroquine, which has not been shown be of any benefit.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

These doctors seem to think Hydroxychloroquine is the answer… I think I believe them.

These doctors are all members of the Houston-based America’s Frontline Doctors, and have a history of making unproven, conspiratorial or bizarre medical claims. Research their backgrounds and you will see. The real frontline healthcare workers find the disinformation spread by this group a terrible hindrance to their work, as it takes time away from their work to explain to people and deal with the misinformation - time that they need to be spending caring for their patients. Don’t give them any credence.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

These doctors are all members of the Houston-based America’s Frontline Doctors, and have a history of making unproven, conspiratorial or bizarre medical claims.

Are you going to just slander them or provide some proof for your claim?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

These doctors are all members of the Houston-based America’s Frontline Doctors, and have a history of making unproven, conspiratorial or bizarre medical claims.

Are you going to just slander them or provide some proof for your claim?

Here is your proof:

PolitiFact | Who are the doctors in the viral hydroxychloroquine video?

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

That website is laughably biased. Don’t just pull the first website that you find that opposes these doctors. One of the doctors in the video cared for over 350 people from the very young to the elderly and not one has died!

That’s pretty hard to refute. and its why I believe them.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

That website is laughably biased.

Follow their links. They support everything they say with authoritative sources. Or research it yourself. If you look you will find the same thing they did. It’s not hard.

That’s pretty hard to refute. and its why I believe them.

Are you sure it’s not because you want to believe them? Conspiracy theories are such fun, after all. Much more fun than the boring truth.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

The truth is that many doctors are backing up what they are saying and the numbers of support they are getting is growing. If hydroxychloroquine was really that bad, then how come we don’t see people dying or not being cured after taking it? Its almost like people refuse to believe that the medication can help them, which is honestly a self fulfilling prophecy when doctors are prevented from prescribing it and people are either scared or prevented from taking it!

What is the big deal? why don’t we just TRY and see if it works. If we don’t have a cure, then why are we taking hydroxycholoquine off the list without even thinking about it? Its not logical at all.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The truth is that many doctors are backing up what they are saying and the numbers of support they are getting is growing.

No, what is happening is that these few rogue doctors are making themselves more visible so they appear to be a growing group. They have just learned how to used social media effectively.

If hydroxychloroquine was really that bad, then how come we don’t see people dying or not being cured after taking it?

We do.

Its almost like people refuse to believe that the medication can help them…

It would be, if the medication truly could help them. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t. We don’t know yet. So far there has been no proven benefit.

which is honestly a self fulfilling prophecy when doctors are prevented from prescribing it and people are either scared or prevented from taking it!

No, there are trials going on right now. There have been trials of HCQ for two months. They just haven’t panned out yet.

What is the big deal? why don’t we just TRY and see if it works.

We are. As I said, there are trials of HCQ going on right now.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

No, what is happening is that these few rogue doctors are making themselves more visible so they appear to be a growing group. They have just learned how to used social media effectively.
[/quote

It kinda sound like you don’t want them to be right…what if they actually ARE RIGHT?

this is my point, we shouldn’t write it off the table and according to these doctors IT IS WORKING.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It kinda sound like you don’t want them to be right…what if they actually ARE RIGHT?

I would absolutely love for their claims for HCQ to be right.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

me too! Hopefully more doctor’s wont be refused to prescribe it from the pharmacies!

 

[LeafByNiggle]

me too! Hopefully more doctor’s wont be refused to prescribe it from the pharmacies!

Uh, doctors prescribe it more will not magically make it work any better. The virus is going to do what the virus is going to do, regardless of our wishful thinking. In the meantime we are standing in the way of the real work that needs to be done by the frontline medical workers by pushing disinformation that takes up their time.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

Uh, doctors prescribe it more will not magically make it work any better. The virus is going to do what the virus is going to do, regardless of our wishful thinking. In the meantime we are standing in the way of the real work that needs to be done by the frontline medical workers by pushing disinformation that takes up their time.

Thats not what i said at all. I just said Pharmacies are preventing doctors from prescribing it…which is not only scary if thats what the doctor wants to do but also if its really helpful

 

[catholicray]

There is

There is no way any truly effective treatment would be suppressed, regardless of what the conspiracy theorists say.

Of course not. As long as by “not suppressed” you are referring to ones ability to circumvent national and global narratives and restrictions.

What conspiracy theories are you referring to because I didn’t quote any theory. I just referenced my own thinking about the financial incentive to monopolize a treatment for COVID-19. That’s not a theory. It’s a fact that monopolizing a treatment would net a massive amount of money. I didn’t say someone has done that. However with the financial incentive being so massive it’s actually reasonable to me to assume that within 8 billion people, at least one person has the means and desire to try.

It’s not a theory it’s a statistical probability. So when I see large corporations censoring a video it tells me two things. Either they don’t believe their population can think for themselves and feel it necessary to control thinking or they stand to lose money if the wrong information gets out. Either way it’s bad for us.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

What conspiracy theories are you referring to because I didn’t quote any theory. I just referenced my own thinking about the financial incentive to monopolize a treatment for COVID-19.

If you were not implying that was somehow being suppressed by these interests, then I fail to see why you brought up this point in the first place. My only point is HCQ is not being suppressed for any reason other than it just doesn’t work. And it is not being suppressed by these evil big pharma companies. It is being correctly reported on by our own professional medical organizations.

 

[catholicray]

Well believe what you like. I don’t often have an absolute stance on anything. So I’m not saying you’re wrong but I wouldn’t agree your right either. Don’t have enough data to determine one way or the other. I’ll let you know when I do. Good luck out there.

 

[Joegrane]

Therefore the selection of who got the HCQ treatment and who didn’t was influenced by the doctors’ knowledge of the patient’s condition.

Hmm, “a 50 percent reduction in deaths among hospitalized COVID-19 patients. After day one of the treatment, a whopping 82 percent of patients began to recover.” Those doctors must be magicians for selecting the patients who would respond so dramatically to treatment. (sarcasm)

when you read about the Henry Ford study through the lens of some biased reporter, you will read conclusions drawn from the study that the authors of the study did not intend. My advice with such studies is to skip the pre-digested analysis, especially when it comes from a source with an ax to grind, and go straight to the original unbiased paper.

Unbiased original paper, really?

In the case of the fraudulent study of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) that was published in the Lancet you are suggesting that we trust the fraudulent data? Instead >100 scientists co-signed a letter complaining about a list of problems and the Lancet retracted the fake study. Those responsible need to go to jail for crimes against humanity.

This article is about a study of HCQ where the original authors presented a negative outcome but some others who analyzed the raw data came to the opposite conclusion! I HIGHLY recommend that you check out the article.

“What the statistical analysis by Marcio Watanabe indicates is that the “post-exposure prophylaxis” study data actually show the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.”

“Even if they wrote the contrary, the McGill and University of Minnesota researchers accidentally have proven, through a randomized controlled trial, that hydroxychloroquine works.”

also

" from an ethical viewpoint, best practices for clinical trials prevent from using placebos when a treatment is known to work. The use of placebos, which is a key for randomized clinical trials, is incompatible with both the hippocratic oath and the internationally approved ethical principles for clinical trials, embedded in the Helsinki Declaration."