Crack pipe plan fights illness [Free crack pipes to users - what do you think]

[setitstraight]

Just wondering what people think about crack pipe and needle exchange programs. Do you think they do more harm than good…or do you think they lower the risk of contracting communicable diseases. Do they even have these programs in the USA?

Just so you know, drug paraphernalia in Canada is not illegal.

At least one City in Canada, the Capital of the Country, Ottawa, hands out crack pipes and needles free to anyone who approaches these mobile and stationary services. They are also encouraged to bring the needles back. Ottawa also has a pilot program, where they give severe street alcoholics access to booze in controlled doses all day.

canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/editorials/story.html?id=9a42adeb-1be6-46a0-bd5d-19112084ee57

In Vancouver British Columbia, they actually have shooting galleries, where drug addicts can enter, get clean needles and shoot their heroine. Here’s a little background…

nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2004_06_30/feature07_13.html

Vancouver has a severe injection drug problem…there are about 4700 injection users in the small area of the lower East side of Vancouver.

 

[StephanieC]

I’ve heard of needle exchange programs, but honestly, I swear I thought you were kidding about the free crack pipes!! Holy cow. Didn’t think I’d gotten that sheltered!

 

[setitstraight]

I’ve heard of needle exchange programs, but honestly, I swear I thought you were kidding about the free crack pipes!! Holy cow. Didn’t think I’d gotten that sheltered!

I threw in a link to a news story about it…just so people know that it’s for real…

 

[mystified]

If it is dangerous to the individual or society in general, we should not encourage the use of illegal drugs.

 

[Mirdath]

The US has needle exchange programs, but they aren’t officially recognized by the federal government. A few state governments do permit charitable groups to set them up, but often as not they get hassled quite a lot.

I think programs like those are wonderful and a great help; they don’t eliminate the dangers of use like overdosing or poisoning, nor do they necessarily reduce addiction (though such programs can help provide access to counseling and treatment services) but they greatly reduce the risk of disease. It only stands to reason that it should be carried over to other kinds of paraphernalia that come into contact with bodily fluids.

The alcohol clinic also sounds like a great idea, though it’s more rehab than exchange. Alcoholics are addicts just as much as junkies, and this clinic not only reduces disease from passing dirty bottles around but reduces the risk of people accidentally poisoning themselves with trash-bag booze that contains methanol or other contaminants.

 

[b_justb]

Removing the ill consequences for poor choices or behavior only encourages the same poor choices and bad behavior.

Don’t do drugs, Johnny you can get addicted and maybe get a disease. Well not so much the disease part because of the needle exchange program.

Don’t have premarital sex Jane, you could get pregnant. Well abortion is the answer there so, I guess go ahead.

This is just the wrong answer.

 

[rpp]

Removing the ill consequences for poor choices or behavior only encourages the same poor choices and bad behavior.

Don’t do drugs, Johnny you can get addicted and maybe get a disease. Well not so much the disease part because of the needle exchange program.

Don’t have premarital sex Jane, you could get pregnant. Well abortion is the answer there so, I guess go ahead.

This is just the wrong answer.

What you said!

 

[setitstraight]

Removing the ill consequences for poor choices or behavior only encourages the same poor choices and bad behavior.

Don’t do drugs, Johnny you can get addicted and maybe get a disease. Well not so much the disease part because of the needle exchange program.

Don’t have premarital sex Jane, you could get pregnant. Well abortion is the answer there so, I guess go ahead.

This is just the wrong answer.

It’s a philosophy of harm reduction…it recognizes that people / addicts will use drugs / alcohol no matter what the law does or says.

People already know that drugs are harmful, yet people do them anyway.

It aims to provide a safer environment for the people, who would otherwise be using the same needle with groups of people in a back alley…or using the same crack pipe…

As much as I want to disagree with the programs - I have come to understand that people will only get sober when they want or are finally willing to get sober.

I also want you to be aware, that in Vancouvers East End…the amount of intravenous drug use is almost beyond comprehension…you have no idea…I don’t have the words to properly articulate the epidemic proportion that intravenous drug use has hit…this is very small area…4700 heroine users…so what’s the answer? No one knows…it is really that bad…I’ve driven through many times…walking zombies is what you see…

As far as the booze program, it’s pretty much for the most extreme older street alcoholics…such as the ones who drink cooking wine, Listerine and other forms of very dangerous alcohol…the ones who will never get sober…yes, I mean that…these men will never get sober…they are almost certainly going to die on the street…

Just something to think about - addicts will do drugs, whether they can do it in a manner that is safer or in a manner that will expose them to disease…they WILL get their fix.

Also, there is evidence that rates of disease transmission is being lowered…this will have positive effect on the health care system.

 

[setitstraight]

Don’t do drugs, Johnny you can get addicted and maybe get a disease. Well not so much the disease part because of the needle exchange program.

 

[MikeWM]

Just something to think about - addicts will do drugs, whether they can do it in a manner that is safer or in a manner that will expose them to disease…they WILL get their fix.

Yes, they will, whether in a pleasant way or a horrible way, whatever they can find. I’m all for programs like this, as long as they are very carefully controlled. No-one in their right mind is going to become an addict just because there are slightly less unpleasant places to do it. These programs are for dealing with those people already in that sad state.

Mike

 

[jman507]

Unfortunately diseases don’t live in a vacuum. The more bloodborne pathogens out there, the more its going to be a threat to innocent bystandards & medical personnel. From that standpoint, I would go with the exchange programs. People can easily find a way to get a syringe or crack pipe, but sterile ones might not be their concern if those type are hard to come by.

 

[Mirdath]

Yet…they still became addicts…even knowing that drugs cause addiction and expose you disease. A person shoots heroine, they do it the first time and generally they don’t think that they are going to become severe addicts…The reasons behind drug addiction and the difficulty in getting off, I think are very complicated.

The language is a little obtuse sometimes, but the concepts are actually not that difficult to grasp. For instance, heroin and other opiates simulate the body’s natural painkilling chemicals, endorphins. Think of these chemicals as ‘keys’ that fit into ‘locks’ in the nervous system: when the lock is opened the pain senses recede and are replaced by euphoria. Heroin does a better job of fitting that lock than natural endorphins, and as one continues use, the body grows acclimated to the constant flow of outside painkillers and completely stops producing its own. This can take three days to a week of daily use – it’s not ‘use it once and you’re an addict’ like it’s often portrayed. If the external painkillers stop coming in, the body has to restart the processes that manufacture endorphins. It can take up to a few weeks to do that – a few extremely painful weeks for the victim of withdrawal. And not only is addiction physical, there’s a huge psychological component; both the fear of withdrawal sickness and the seeking for the pleasure given by the drug are powerful factors.

Other physically addictive drugs (cocaine, methamphetamines, benzodiazepines like Xanax or Valium) work in similar ways, but the chemical ‘keys’ they simulate are different.

Hope that helps

 

[rlg94086]

Well, it certainly wouldn’t be a reason for someone to become an addict, but it does seem more likely they will stay an addict with a program like this available. Is there data showing that these programs are effective at getting someone off of drugs? If not, I’m against the condoning of their behavior.

Yes, they will, whether in a pleasant way or a horrible way, whatever they can find. I’m all for programs like this, as long as they are very carefully controlled. No-one in their right mind is going to become an addict just because there are slightly less unpleasant places to do it. These programs are for dealing with those people already in that sad state.

Mike

 

[Mirdath]

Well, it certainly wouldn’t be a reason for someone to become an addict, but it does seem more likely they will stay an addict with a program like this available. Is there data showing that these programs are effective at getting someone off of drugs? If not, I’m against the condoning of their behavior.

Needle exchanges commonly refer people to treatment and counseling for addiction, even if they cannot provide those services themselves (they don’t have licenses to prescribe methadone, suboxone, etc). Many addicts, probably a majority, aren’t addicted because they want to be – in the case of heroin, for example, it’s often caused by chronic pain or hospital treatment for painful conditions followed by the high price of legal pharmaceuticals making it difficult if not impossible to get help legally, safely, and in ways acceptable to society.

There was a thread a while back about a similar topic (heroin, not crack) that I posted a lot in from my experiences and those of people I’ve known: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=120810.

 

[MikeWM]

Well, it certainly wouldn’t be a reason for someone to become an addict, but it does seem more likely they will stay an addict with a program like this available.

I’m not sure I agree, but it’s a valid point of view. I’d like to see some data both ways, it’s not an easy question. Personally, I don’t expect these programs to make much of a difference either way, except in preventing people from catching horrid diseases that make them so ill that they are forced to give up (which is actually a useful way of doing it if it happens to you and you live through it, but it shouldn’t be policy).

Mike

 

[b_justb]

setitstraight:

Just something to think about - addicts will do drugs, whether they can do it in a manner that is safer or in a manner that will expose them to disease…they WILL get their fix.

An addict will behave as he will behave; this doesn’t mean the gov’t or “charitable” organizations should enable them to behave in a way that continues their addiction(s).

 

[Mirdath]

I’m not sure I agree, but it’s a valid point of view. I’d like to see some data both ways, it’s not an easy question. Personally, I don’t expect these programs to make much of a difference either way, except in preventing people from catching horrid diseases that make them so ill that they are forced to give up (which is actually a useful way of doing it if it happens to you and you live through it, but it shouldn’t be policy).

AIDS is a good way to kick addiction…permanently. Sounds like a horror movie tagline. Paraphernalia exchanges may not make much of a dent on it, but the treatment and counseling they can and will refer their clients to should help a lot.

b_justb:

An addict will behave as he will behave; this doesn’t mean the gov’t or “charitable” organizations should enable them to behave in a way that continues their addiction(s).

Would you rather have those governments and charitable organizations have to bury us?

Exchanges aren’t enabling much of anything more than simply existing does. I never went to an exchange when I was a heroin user; I’d just go to the pharmacy and ask for the insulin syringes they keep behind the counter.

Where exchanges help is in referrals, helping the addicts get treatment and counseling. The ideal goal is to get everyone off the stuff, but it’s important to note that this is a process which happens very gradually, and it takes a lot of willpower and time even to start.

 

[Marilena]

Just wondering what people think about crack pipe and needle exchange programs. Do you think they do more harm than good…or do you think they lower the risk of contracting communicable diseases. Do they even have these programs in the USA?

Just so you know, drug paraphernalia in Canada is not illegal.

At least one City in Canada, the Capital of the Country, Ottawa, hands out crack pipes and needles free to anyone who approaches these mobile and stationary services. They are also encouraged to bring the needles back. Ottawa also has a pilot program, where they give severe street alcoholics access to booze in controlled doses all day.

canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/editorials/story.html?id=9a42adeb-1be6-46a0-bd5d-19112084ee57

In Vancouver British Columbia, they actually have shooting galleries, where drug addicts can enter, get clean needles and shoot their heroine. Here’s a little background…

nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2004_06_30/feature07_13.html

Vancouver has a severe injection drug problem…there are about 4700 injection users in the small area of the lower East side of Vancouver.

free pipes and needles has not stop the spread of aids or hep.
or other diseases. what do i think of it? i don’t. i feel like this is only encouraging addicts to stay addicted and not get clean.

why? i know someone close to me who is severely addicted to cocaine and alcohol and free needles have not stopped him
from being addicted to cocaine. he has spent the last 30 some odd years of his life getting high, and pickling his liver.

what came out of all of it? in and out of drug rehabs and not wanting to be clean, and apparently from what i heard, his liver is hanging by a thread. he has late stage cirrohsis of the liver.

last time i seen him, which was 8 months ago, he had a t-shirt on, and his arms were brusied from all the injections he has been punishing himself with with cocaine.

so what has free needles and pipes done? not a darn thing. its useless to hand them out. addicts don’t care about the safety of the public, if they are going to throw a needle or pipe on the street, they’ll do it whether there is a drop container or not.

so the program is totally pointless. there needs to be a complete crack down on drug offenses, and heavy heavy jail time for those who sell drugs, or possess drugs.

i’ve seen a family ripped apart by the drug addicts behavior and his life. his life is completely ruined and he did it to himself. no drug rehabs in his area will take him anymore.

he used his family for money and for a place to sleep when he has no other place togo. he has never repaid his family, nor has he truly apologized for using them. he always has this woe is me attitude and expects pity, and he gets none anymore because he used his entire family, and he spends his social services checks on dope. then wonders why no one
will help him out anymore when he has no place to go.

he even uses his own son for a place to stay. his son’s mother is also a drug and alcohol addict. i feel bad for the son not the parents. i pray for the parents to get clean, and stay clean. i pray that the son does not follow in his parents footsteps.

so no, these needle and pipe programs are useless.

 

[b_justb]

Mirdath:

Would you rather have those governments and charitable organizations have to bury us?

Exchanges aren’t enabling much of anything more than simply existing does. I never went to an exchange when I was a heroin user; I’d just go to the pharmacy and ask for the insulin syringes they keep behind the counter.

Where exchanges help is in referrals, helping the addicts get treatment and counseling. The ideal goal is to get everyone off the stuff, but it’s important to note that this is a process which happens very gradually, and it takes a lot of willpower and time even to start.

I would rather that all addicts would be cured. I would rather all sinners repent and come to know God.

I have to disagree that free crack pipes and fresh new clean needles handed out to drug users doesn’t enable additive behavior. I think it’s a very good thing to offer counseling and rehab support to addicts, and those programs are needed. I do not agree that offering them side by side with a new crack pipe is the thing to do. I see that in line with a roadside stand where one can go to an AA meeting if they want, or get a free bottle of Scotch depending on where he is at the moment in his addiction.

I am very glad you beat your addiction; it’s a tough road to walk. I am sure that your experiences offer a unique view of issues like these.

 

[setitstraight]

An addict will behave as he will behave; this doesn’t mean the gov’t or “charitable” organizations should enable them to behave in a way that continues their addiction(s).

Good point…but think about this…whats the better of two wrongs…

1. Shooting heroine in public park with a contaminated needle and leaving the needle behind for someone to step on…

or

1. Using a shooting gallery where the needle is clean and disposed of, the addict has access to a nurse and an addiction counselor.

The crack pipe situation is similar…discarded crack pipes, sharing crack pipes, broken glass…Hep C found on the pipe…is an extremely strong virus and can stay alive for quite some time while exposed to the outside world.