Crack pipe plan fights illness [Free crack pipes to users - what do you think]

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setitstraight said:
Good point…but think about this…whats the better of two wrongs…
  1. Shooting heroine in public park with a contaminated needle and leaving the needle behind for someone to step on…
or
  1. Using a shooting gallery where the needle is clean and disposed of, the addict has access to a nurse and an addiction counselor.
The crack pipe situation is similar…discarded crack pipes, sharing crack pipes, broken glass…Hep C found on the pipe…is an extremely strong virus and can stay alive for quite some time while exposed to the outside world.
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addicts leave the dirty infected needles outside regardless whether there is a gallery or not. all these kinds of things do is
tell the addict, hey come over here and shoot up here! its only subbing one place for another for him/her to shoot up, regardless of the safety issues, it does not address the problem of drug addiction.

there needs to be a serious crackdown on drugs and people who sell them and use them. stiffer penalties and heavier fines.
you cannot clean up all of it, but you can make a difference by making stronger laws, and neighborhoods can help as well.

we can all partake of a program where we as nighbors can make a difference. go to your local MP and ask for something to be done. we need to hire more police officers and have more crime watch in our communities. get reformed addicts in on the programs.
 
MikeWM said:
I’m not sure I agree, but it’s a valid point of view. I’d like to see some data both ways, it’s not an easy question. Personally, I don’t expect these programs to make much of a difference either way, except in preventing people from catching horrid diseases that make them so ill that they are forced to give up (which is actually a useful way of doing it if it happens to you and you live through it, but it shouldn’t be policy).

Mike
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Well, we agree there…I don’t think you can make it policy to have people catch horrid diseases. 😛

I’m interested in data either way, as well. As I implied, I am not wholly opposed to these programs, if they are successful in helping to get people off of the drugs. I don’t think keeping them safer but still strung out is good enough.
 
Is their a better way to spend resources (people’s time and equipment)? Wouldn’t homeless assistance be better than accomodation?

A cot, food, a bed be more important charity in these instances.

Beyond prayer, what help can you give an unrepentant addict, but love? The disease may be part of the horrifying wake up call. Accomodating destructive behavior seems wrong to me and I am a recovering alcoholic. Such activities would have served to me to be a reinforcement that society winks at my behaviour in some sense.
 
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marilena:
so what has free needles and pipes done? not a darn thing. its useless to hand them out. addicts don’t care about the safety of the public, if they are going to throw a needle or pipe on the street, they’ll do it whether there is a drop container or not.
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With exchanges you have to give them the old piece to get a new one – which means no tossing it in the street.
so the program is totally pointless. there needs to be a complete crack down on drug offenses, and heavy heavy jail time for those who sell drugs, or possess drugs.
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Why? Prisons are already too crowded. Drug possession is a completely nonviolent crime and it already carries heavier penalties than rape or murder. Same with distribution – violence is incidental, and the illegality is the root cause of that violence. You’d see a lot less of that if one could purchase currently-illegal drugs at a pharmacy.

I’m sorry to hear about your acquaintance; if he doesn’t truly want to quit, he never will. However, he is the exception instead of the rule.

Increasing the already-ridiculous fervor with which governments, especially the United States, carry out the ‘war on drugs’ (what a name… the drugs are winning anyway) is the worst way to go about helping victims of addiction. Would you accept your civil liberties being cut off to the point of being watched 24/7 by secret police in order to ensure that no nasty drugs get in our society? Because that’s what it’s going to take: a police ‘shadow’ for every living person, who sleeps when they do, wakes up to an alarm when they open their eyes, and watches their every movement, hears their every word. 1984 has nothing on this image.

So, since governments won’t be able to afford turning exactly half of the world’s population into incorruptible police, any solution they come up with is going to be highly imperfect. Higher penalties? Possession of Schedule 1 (Class A across the pond – you mentioned MPs so I’m guessing you’re British 🙂 ) drugs already carries penalties outweighing those for rape, murder, and arson. Heavier fines? Drug kingpins don’t even break a sweat hearing about fines – they can afford not to be arrested. People lowest on the ‘food chain’, the street addicts who are the most commonly picked up, can’t pay them anyway.

Addiction is an illness, not a crime. You are not going to be able to stop or even slow the torrent of drugs into this or other countries. The only way to truly help those caught in addiction is with mercy, compassion, and encouragement to lead a freer life.
b_justb said:
I have to disagree that free crack pipes and fresh new clean needles handed out to drug users doesn’t enable additive behavior. I think it’s a very good thing to offer counseling and rehab support to addicts, and those programs are needed. I do not agree that offering them side by side with a new crack pipe is the thing to do. I see that in line with a roadside stand where one can go to an AA meeting if they want, or get a free bottle of Scotch depending on where he is at the moment in his addiction.
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Imagine that all plastic-bottle rotgut in the world has a small but present chance of actually being poisonous methyl alcohol. Then imagine that, somehow, the rim of the bottle has a small but present chance of communicating deadly diseases to the lips (only direct-to-lip transmission). Paraphernalia exchanges would be in line with a roadside stand where one could go to an AA meeting or get a free shot glass and a subtle push to go to counseling/rehab.
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MichaelTDoyle:
A cot, food, a bed be more important charity in these instances.

Beyond prayer, what help can you give an unrepentant addict, but love? The disease may be part of the horrifying wake up call. Accomodating destructive behavior seems wrong to me and I am a recovering alcoholic. Such activities would have served to me to be a reinforcement that society winks at my behaviour in some sense.
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If you were undergoing delirium tremens due to withdrawal, I’d pour a shot down your throat just to keep you alive. I’ve no experience with cocaine withdrawal (I’ve had cravings while using it, kinda like how you never want to stop eating potato chips or m&ms, but never had a habit) but dopesickness is a terrible, terrible thing and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. And there’s no way to get off the stuff and avoid the sickness completely; heavy users have to gradually wean themselves down to a small dose and then just jump into sobriety and deal with a couple weeks sick.
 
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Mirdath:
Imagine that all plastic-bottle rotgut in the world has a small but present chance of actually being poisonous methyl alcohol. Then imagine that, somehow, the rim of the bottle has a small but present chance of communicating deadly diseases to the lips (only direct-to-lip transmission). Paraphernalia exchanges would be in line with a roadside stand where one could go to an AA meeting or get a free shot glass and a subtle push to go to counseling/rehab.
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Imagine if none took the rehab. Now what do we have? A program doing nothing but emabling addicts. We can imagine all sorts of things. What is in question is wether free clean needles and free crack pipe programs are good, bad, or indifferent,. I say they are bad.
 
MichaelTDoyle said:
You’re talking about treatment, and I agree with that.
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Thanks. Treatment is a different thing, even when the addict is still using but gradually taking the dose down. However, as I’m sure you know, it takes a lot of willpower to convince oneself ‘it’s time for me to stop this’. I would rather pay more taxes to have people cared for (and by extension, society cared for) before they go into treatment than to throw other addicts to the wolves telling them to come back when they want to get off their poison of choice. Counseling, even if it isn’t for the addiction proper, can help immensely with the person’s underlying issues that may have dragged them into that trap – and unless those are fixed, that person may go on to finish rehab but will return to drug usage.
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b_justb:
Imagine if none took the rehab. Now what do we have? A program doing nothing but emabling addicts. We can imagine all sorts of things. What is in question is wether free clean needles and free crack pipe programs are good, bad, or indifferent,. I say they are bad.
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Keeping them alive and free from devastating sickness is not the same thing as enabling their problems. Even if some few addicts do not eventually choose to work their way towards sobriety, exchange programs will do them all immense amounts of good.
 
MichaelTDoyle said:
Is their a better way to spend resources (people’s time and equipment)? Wouldn’t homeless assistance be better than accomodation?

A cot, food, a bed be more important charity in these instances.

.
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The booze program - the street people remain in the premise all day and I’m pretty sure night as well…in any event, it’s indoors all day for sure…

They get their alcohol in measured doses according to a timer…it keeps them even keeled all day, instead of the extreme highs and lows they go through on the street when they pound back whatever they can get their hands on…
 
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