Cradle Catholic questioning if I belong

[OurLadysServant]

In my heart I believe that worshiping God is a choice, where you decide to do that is between you and God.

We are not free to pick and choose the Commandments we agree with only, and the parts of God’s word that we agree with only.

If everyone only lived the commandments they personally agreed with we’d all have our own religions. It would not be God’s Church with God’s Rules, but My Church with the rules I like, leaving out everything I don’t like that commanded and put in the Bible.

God did not say to Moses, “Here are the Ten Commandments. Read over them and pick the ones you like.”
Did God inspire any of the Bible writers to write down, “Keep what you agree with. Otherwise do what you want.”

Nope.
Jesus said,
“The world is at enmity with God. He who loves the world is at enmity with God.” (Don’t quote what others do, they might not end up in Heaven!)

“Blessed is He who hears and DOES the will of God.”

“Blessed is He who hears the word of God and DOES it.”

“If you loved Me you would keep My words.”

“If anyone even takes an iota from the words in this book, he will lose his share in the Eternal City, and receive all the plagues mentioned in this book.”

 

[St_Francis]

Good Afternoon Busy Sleeper. I always find it a curiously Catholic perspective to imagine that the attainment of heaven or hell has something to do with rules, loopholes to rules, rites, rituals and obervances. These are in fact ways to find religion, that’s for sure. But it’s probably not the way to find God or heaven. You seem to be tormenting yourself over a regulatory view of God and the world around you, and this has put you in exactly the place you are trying to avoid. Just some thoughts.

All the best
Gary

I used to resent the need to change my oil–every three months! (dating myself, I know!) It seemed like a stupid rule to make mechanics and oil companies money.

But it reality, had I changed the oil every three months, my cars would probably have lasted longer than they did, because rhe reason for that rule was the oil in those days would brekak down that quickly and provide less lubrication. This happened independent if what I thought about the matter, and we can learn from this lesson that sometimes rules are not instituted to drive us crazy but to teach us things we need to know.

Christ said if we love Him, we will obey His commandments. Why? Because if we love Him, we want to be with Him. If we want to be with Him, we have to learn how to attain Heaven. He teaches us how to get to Heaven by the commandments He gives us. He gave the Church the authority to teach us His commands so that we could understand them.

So, if we say we love God but we do whatever we please, are we really loving God? No. Did He send His Son to us so we could do as we please? Did His Son die on the cross for us so we could do as we please?

It is true that we are to see the “rules” as directions to Heaven, and to understand that we will fail at the rules frequently, because we are weak and little, but when we fall, we run to Him to apologize and ask His help not to fall again. It’s not like He’s going to scold us when we fall, nor should we scold ourselves.

 

[pianistclare]

Good Afternoon Busy Sleeper. I always find it a curiously Catholic perspective to imagine that the attainment of heaven or hell has something to do with rules, loopholes to rules, rites, rituals and obervances. These are in fact ways to find religion, that’s for sure. But it’s probably not the way to find God or heaven. You seem to be tormenting yourself over a regulatory view of God and the world around you, and this has put you in exactly the place you are trying to avoid. Just some thoughts.

All the best
Gary

Well stated.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes I believe that children should obey their parents until they are older and able to understand. I am now that older child asking the Father Why? I want to understand. I am looking and praying for answers but am falling short. That is why I am here, to save myself and if there is no hope for me then to save my children, who with our genetic code will no doubt have the same conflicts and questions. Which I will not have answers for. If they get to heaven through a “loophole” that millions of people have taken, unknowing, at least they will be in heaven.

There is no guarantee or even any evidence that such a loophole even exists. I would NOT bet my child’s soul on the idea that her ignorance might “save” her; instead I would teach her everything I know and give her solid ground to stand on.

 

[Busy_sleeper]

Good Afternoon Busy Sleeper. I always find it a curiously Catholic perspective to imagine that the attainment of heaven or hell has something to do with rules, loopholes to rules, rites, rituals and obervances. These are in fact ways to find religion, that’s for sure. But it’s probably not the way to find God or heaven. You seem to be tormenting yourself over a regulatory view of God and the world around you, and this has put you in exactly the place you are trying to avoid. Just some thoughts.

All the best
Gary

Thank you Gary, I actually agree with what you have said, which is one reason that I find it difficult to believe that I am actually committing mortal sins. I have always believed in God and his mercy. I am not questioning my love for him or his love for me. The Catholic church has brought me to this place of questioning their teachings on 2 issues. And if I decide that I do not believe that these are sins then what do I do? It is my impression of the Church that by deciding to not follow everything the Church teaches then I am held bound to these sins, which cannot be forgiven because I am not truly sorry for them.

Again, why can other faiths be welcomed into heaven without believing all the teachings of the Catholic church and I, having my church chosen for me by the pressure of my parents but still believe the majority of it’s teachings, will not?

I would love to avoid this place of torment.

 

[Busy_sleeper]

There is no loophole. The law of God is written on our hearts no matter what religion or aetheist belief. They are accountable for ANYTHING their consciences tell them is GRAVELY wrong and they freely and deliberately do.

I’m not the one that initially called it a “loophole.” I am merely using the term someone else used.

I agree that everyone is accountable for “anything their consciences tell them is GRAVELY wrong and they freely and deliberately do.” The point I a making is that my conscience does not tell me that these things are GRAVELY wrong and I, in no way, think that I am turning my back on God.

How do you explain that people of many different faiths also go to heaven? And how would I somehow threaten the fate of my children if I taught them the teachings of Jesus Christ (love and forgiveness)? I can show them the Lords way without making them follow a specific church.

 

[Busy_sleeper]

Why is sodomy, masturbation, contraception, mastectomy, fornication, premarital intercourse, and abortion grave matter and mortal sin under the three conditions?

Because intercourse is not about carnality. About physical gratification only. It’s supposed to be completely open to creating children, and during this “unification” of the two spouses who MUST be married, because it is a SACRED act participating with God in the work of Creation.

All of this is biblical too. Sodom was destroyed by God because sodomy was practiced ther, and impure sins of carnality. It says in the bible, “Fornicators will NOT inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, they will be thrown out into the Outer Darkness where there will be weeping ans gnashing of teeth.” “Refrain from unchastity. Abstain from sexual immorality.” “Be holy for I am holy.” “The pure in heart will see God.”
If you do not believe its a sin, God does, and so does His Word.

Mastectomy? The surgery to remove a woman’s breasts? Anyway, I take great offence that you are insinuating that these acts are taking place in any form in my house! There is nothing happening in my house that comes close to Sodom!

My husband an I are completely open, and want, to create more children. Obviously, as I stated before, he only does this when there is not a possibility of an egg being fertilized and even if there was we are not using it for contraception. As we all have learned, there is still a high probability of pregnancy with this method of contraception.

 

[Busy_sleeper]

There is no guarantee or even any evidence that such a loophole even exists. I would NOT bet my child’s soul on the idea that her ignorance might “save” her; instead I would teach her everything I know and give her solid ground to stand on.

Which is what I plan to do no matter were I attend church or what religion I call myself.

If there is no “loophole” how do you explain people from other religions being welcomed into heaven?

 

[Busy_sleeper]

We are not free to pick and choose the Commandments we agree with only, and the parts of God’s word that we agree with only.

If everyone only lived the commandments they personally agreed with we’d all have our own religions. It would not be God’s Church with God’s Rules, but My Church with the rules I like, leaving out everything I don’t like that commanded and put in the Bible.

God did not say to Moses, “Here are the Ten Commandments. Read over them and pick the ones you like.”
Did God inspire any of the Bible writers to write down, “Keep what you agree with. Otherwise do what you want.”

Nope.
Jesus said,
“The world is at enmity with God. He who loves the world is at enmity with God.” (Don’t quote what others do, they might not end up in Heaven!)

“Blessed is He who hears and DOES the will of God.”

“Blessed is He who hears the word of God and DOES it.”

“If you loved Me you would keep My words.”

“If anyone even takes an iota from the words in this book, he will lose his share in the Eternal City, and receive all the plagues mentioned in this book.”

I am not picking certain commandments to live by. I believe in the 10 commandments and will always intend to live by them and teach my children to live by them. I do believe that “keeping holy the Lord’s day” is fulfilled by more people than just Catholics. And that the act of “pulling out” during infertile times is not committing the mortal sin of “thou shall not kill.” I feel like the church has defined these things as mortal sins not the word of God.

 

[pianistclare]

Which is what I plan to do no matter were I attend church or what religion I call myself.

If there is no “loophole” how do you explain people from other religions being welcomed into heaven?

Anyone can know and love Christ.
The Church doesn’t say that those who are not Catholic don’t go to heaven.
But the TOOLS for attaining eternal life can be had in the Catholic Church. Her Sacraments, her interpretation of the Scriptures, her tradition and revelations through the Saints and Apostles, her apostolic succession which guides the church in matters of faith and morals, etc.
This is what we mean. A practicing Catholic in good standing would most surely merit eternal life. No one know who all will go and who won’t; but be assured that you will not be deceived or misled in Christ’s Church. Think about it: All the other denominations exist because someone also thought they knew better than what Jesus taught. They wanted it easy, or on their terms to suit their personal needs. They started because they disagreed and those points were more important than obedience to them.
God in His mercy loves everyone. true enough.
But Catholics have a deep personal relationship with Christ through the Holy Eucharist, And THAT, you can’t get elsewhere.
People can “believe” it’s the same, but it’s not.

 

[Thorolfr]

Mastectomy? The surgery to remove a woman’s breasts?

I would be surprised if the Catholic Church is against a mastectomy if it is needed. It is commonly used in cases of breast cancer and I can’t believe that the Church would claim that it is better to die of breast cancer than to have the breasts removed.

 

[pianistclare]

Sometimes, certain over the top posters misrepresent what the Church says /teaches because of their zeal and a lack of study.
This is why everyone needs a good spiritual director that is also priest.

When in doubt, always consult the Catechism.

 

[Sy_Noe]

All of this is biblical too. Sodom was destroyed by God because sodomy was practiced ther, and impure sins of carnality.

Actually biblically there was a great deal more to it. Ezekiel 16:49-50

 

[Sy_Noe]

Can someone give a clear answer to this? A Catholic knows what the Church teaches and understands the Church’s perspective and reasoning She gives behind teachings. But the Catholic simply does not believe in or trust in the teaching authority so they reject the teaching of something pertaining to what the Church considers mortal sin. Is it the faithful’s belief that the person goes to hell if unrepentant before death?

 

[St_Francis]

Mastectomy? The surgery to remove a woman’s breasts? Anyway, I take great offence that you are insinuating that these acts are taking place in any form in my house! There is nothing happening in my house that comes close to Sodom!

My husband an I are completely open, and want, to create more children. Obviously, as I stated before, he only does this when there is not a possibility of an egg being fertilized and even if there was we are not using it for contraception. As we all have learned, there is still a high probability of pregnancy with this method of contraception.

I would be surprised if the Catholic Church is against a mastectomy if it is needed. It is commonly used in cases of breast cancer and I can’t believe that the Church would claim that it is better to die of breast cancer than to have the breasts removed.

I suspect the poster meant Vasectomy.

 

[St_Francis]

Can someone give a clear answer to this? A Catholic knows what the Church teaches and understands the Church’s perspective and reasoning She gives behind teachings. But the Catholic simply does not believe in or trust in the teaching authority so they reject the teaching of something pertaining to what the Church considers mortal sin. Is it the faithful’s belief that the person goes to hell if unrepentant before death?

God judges, not us. We cannot say anything about where a particular individual ends up, because God judges them based on every speck of their being, and we don’t have all that information.

However, if you knew your neighbor wanted to go west, and you saw him driving east, wouldn’t you tell him he was going in the wrong direction?

 

[pianistclare]

Can someone give a clear answer to this? A Catholic knows what the Church teaches and understands the Church’s perspective and reasoning She gives behind teachings. But the Catholic simply does not believe in or trust in the teaching authority so they reject the teaching of something pertaining to what the Church considers mortal sin. Is it the faithful’s belief that the person goes to hell if unrepentant before death?

Only God knows for sure. We rely on the immense mercy of God.
The Church teaches what she does based on Scripture, Divine Revelation tradition and 2000 years of scholarship.
I don’t know what God will say when folks pick and choose or struggle, only God knows their heart. We leave it to God. Truly, none of us knows the state of someone else’s soul, nor would we want to. Some things are left to the Lord in His mercy.
The Church does not teach damnation for anyone, except maybe that “unforgivable” sin. We’re not talking about that here. We’re talking about the discipline of being open to life.
The Church only gives us the tools to get to heaven.
It’s up to us to pick them up and use them.

 

[Sy_Noe]

St Francis and Pianistclare, so would it be correct to say it’s a matter of what it means to have full knowledge and understanding? And that just because a person knows what the Church teaches about something and understands why, if they don’t believe it, then they don’t truly know? And so when CCC 846 says you can’t be saved if you know and don’t enter or remain, it means you can know what the Church says. But if you don’t believe it, that actually means you don’t know? IOW you have to believe something in order to know?

 

[OurLadysServant]

OurLadysServant;12895257:

There is no loophole. The law of God is written on our hearts no matter what religion or aetheist belief. They are accountable for ANYTHING their consciences tell them is GRAVELY wrong and they freely and deliberately do.

I’m not the one that initially called it a “loophole.” I am merely using the term someone else used.

Some people are saved by the skin of their teeth, they repent at the last moment, receive mercy, and may have much to atone in purgatory.
I agree that everyone is accountable for “anything their consciences tell them is GRAVELY wrong and they freely and deliberately do.” The point I a making is that my conscience does not tell me that these things are GRAVELY wrong and I, in no way, think that I am turning my back on God.

How do you explain that people of many different faiths also go to heaven? And how would I somehow threaten the fate of my children if I taught them the teachings of Jesus Christ (love and forgiveness)? I can show them the Lords way without making them follow a specific church.

People of other faiths still have to keep God’s commandments and laws to get into Heaven because the Law of God is written on all hearts.

Sorry just wondering
Do you believe catholicism is the True Church?
Because that would be full knowledge on your part, and to withold to upbring children in the True Faith, is a mortal sin under the three conditions, its in the Catechism

 

[OurLadysServant]

Thank you Gary, I actually agree with what you have said, which is one reason that I find it difficult to believe that I am actually committing mortal sins. I have always believed in God and his mercy. I am not questioning my love for him or his love for me. The Catholic church has brought me to this place of questioning their teachings on 2 issues. And if I decide that I do not believe that these are sins then what do I do? It is my impression of the Church that by deciding to not follow everything the Church teaches then I am held bound to these sins, which cannot be forgiven because I am not truly sorry for them.

Again, why can other faiths be welcomed into heaven without believing all the teachings of the Catholic church and I, having my church chosen for me by the pressure of my parents but still believe the majority of it’s teachings, will not?

I would love to avoid this place of torment.

Your conscience is correct my friend in Christ!

You are fearful of being seperated from God because you do not believe four items are mortal sins.

Where does it teach people who are not catholic can do any sin they want and still get into Heaven because they do no have “full knowledge”? Because the Law of God is written on our hearts, if their consciences tell them the act is gravely wrong and they freely and deliberately do it, then it’s a mortal sin. So other beliefs are still bound to God’s laws by their consciences.

Jesus did not say, “Do whatever you want, just trust in my forgiveness.” He said, “Wide and easy is the way to eternal perdition and there are many who find it. Narrow and difficult is the way to Eternal Life, and there are few who find it.” “If you love me why do you not keep my words?”

A well known lay catholic evangelist in my country said once; “Too many people these days are not living the commandments, and thinking, God will forgive me, God will understand. There’s no more talk of mortal sin. If you die in a state of mortal sin there’s a possible two places: hell, or if you’re very lucky, purgatory.”