Cradle Catholic questioning if I belong

  • Thread starter Thread starter Busy_sleeper
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Busy_sleeper

Guest
I was raised by 2 catholic parents in a small town. My husband was raised Lutheran in a farming community close to where we now live. This past fall he decided he wanted to go through RCIA and join the catholic church we have been attending for the past 7 years. I was thrilled! About a week before Easter he told me that his heart wasn’t fully committed and that he would not be joining on Easter. I was disappointed but understood that he would have conflicts with some of the beliefs, surprisingly only 2. We talked about his reasons for a few days and I actually agree with him, which has caused me a great deal of heartache the past couple weeks. I have talked with our priest, he sent me here and to talk with my parents, who he does not know. That was disappointed again. I posted this question to “Ask an Apologist” last week but did not get a response. I am here to get some help and answers. Would if be better for me to be become a really good Lutheran or remain a habitually sinful Catholic? Or because I have been given the “knowledge” of certain mortal sins will I still be considered “sinful” no matter what faith I join. Is there any hope of heaven for my soul?
 
It’s hard to respond to your question without more details about what is causing the difficulty.

Possibly the problem areas are in places where there’s room for prudential judgment. But possibly not. Possibly they’re in areas where the Lutherans have the same belief as Catholics, so you wouldn’t gain anything by leaving the Catholic Church.

Your Catholic baptism means that you are always Catholic, so being a good Lutheran isn’t really an option. You can be a practicing Catholic or a non-practicing Catholic, but you’ll always be Catholic.

If it helps, know that there are lots of Catholics who struggle to understand and accept different teachings. There’s holiness in that struggle! And hope! And God!
 
Busy_sleeper said:
… I posted this question to “Ask an Apologist” last week but did not get a response. I am here to get some help and answers.
Click to expand...
I agree with SuscipeMeDomine- that it is hard to answer your question - if you do not post what the issues are … I looked for your post in the “Ask an Apologist” - but you must have used another log in name as you have only this post …

What 2 teachings are the ones you and your husband have difficulty with?
 
You’re a Catholic.
If your husband is not ready, then he’s not ready. No need for all the disappointment drama. Just allow him to work through his issues and encourage him and PRAY for him.
It doesn’t need to be remedied TODAY. The Holy Spirit works in His own time, to wonderful results.
First rule of RCIA: Don’t convert because someone else wants you to. Authentic conversion is a desire that can’t be stopped. Give him time.
Be assured of our prayers.
 
I did not list the issues because I didn’t think it really mattered, both are considered mortal sins, whether or not I believe that they are is the issue. A soul having a mortal sin will go to hell upon death. Correct? So what do I do? It’s not a sin if you haven’t been given the knowledge that it is a sin, so why am I doomed to hell and others get a free pass because they did not “know.” And furthermore I am thinking of my children. Do I continue to raise them Catholic knowing that they will be taught these things? Wouldn’t I want to save my children from that fate if there happens to be a tragic accident while they still coming to terms with their beliefs in the Catholic faith?
 
Busy_sleeper said:
. Would if be better for me to be become a really good Lutheran or remain a habitually sinful Catholic?

Or because I have been given the “knowledge” of certain mortal sins will I still be considered “sinful” no matter what faith I join. Is there any hope of heaven for my soul?
Click to expand...
Do not decide to not become catholic because it means you will be accountable for certain sins.
Become a catholic if your heart tells you it is the True Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself 2015 years ago.

If you know Catholicism is the absolute truth, then turning your back on the absolute truth and settling for less is not going to be an answer to God personally calling you to deeper holiness.

The Catechism states, the law of God is written on our hearts. So just because a person is protestant, buddhist, or aetheist, doesn’t mean they can sin all they want unaccounted for. If a person knows something is gravely morally wrong, and freely and deliberately commits the sin, then its a mortal sin no matter what faith you are, or if you’re aetheist.

So either way you are still accountable for sin.

In the True Church, or the churches founded by people?
 
Busy_sleeper said:
I was raised by 2 catholic parents in a small town. My husband was raised Lutheran in a farming community close to where we now live. This past fall he decided he wanted to go through RCIA and join the catholic church we have been attending for the past 7 years. I was thrilled! About a week before Easter he told me that his heart wasn’t fully committed and that he would not be joining on Easter. I was disappointed but understood that he would have conflicts with some of the beliefs, surprisingly only 2. We talked about his reasons for a few days and I actually agree with him, which has caused me a great deal of heartache the past couple weeks. I have talked with our priest, he sent me here and to talk with my parents, who he does not know. That was disappointed again. I posted this question to “Ask an Apologist” last week but did not get a response. I am here to get some help and answers. Would if be better for me to be become a really good Lutheran or remain a habitually sinful Catholic? Or because I have been given the “knowledge” of certain mortal sins will I still be considered “sinful” no matter what faith I join. Is there any hope of heaven for my soul?
Click to expand...
Good evening Busy Sleeper. If you decide not to be Catholic, I would imagine that you would have to actually believe something other than Catholicism. I don’t think that leaving because you can’t abide by certain things is going to make you feel more in synch with God or with yourself. All this will do is make you sense a chasm in the order of your life. To make this change, I would think you’d have to stop believing what you believe. And only you can know if this is right for you.

All the best
Gary
 
That is part of the problem. I do not believe attending the Lutheran church with him and his family occasionally, without attending mass is a grave mortal sin. I am still attending a very similar service and worshiping the same God. The other issue is “pulling out.” We are currently trying to have another baby, so we are very open to life, but I know that there are certain times of the month when that is not possible. So out of consideration for me and my comfort/cleanliness he will do this so that the rest of the day I am not “messy.” The Lutheran church does not think that either of these are sins, let alone mortal sins.
 
What would be best would be if you prayed about this and asked God to clarify the teaching(s) with which you disagree for you 🙂

What I have found is that most Catholics who don’t understand this teaching or that is that no matter how many years they spent in Catholic school etc, they do not understand the nature of truth and of authority held by the Church.

It’s like a person who says they don’t understand why they have to change the oil in their car given that the car runs on gasoline: they don’t understand the function of the oil and the nature of the oil (deteriorates at high heat). Once they understand those things, they understand why they have to change the oil.

You and your husband are probably not the first to have the specific disagreements you have. I would suggest looking them up here on CAF and see what has been said about them.

However, more important is to understand the truth and authority in the Church. I got this understanding from a book called *Home Sweet Rome *by Scott and Kimberley Hahn. This is a very easy-to-read book about their spiritual and theological/intellectual journey into the Church from a very Protestant background. Many theological ideas are clearly, simply, and concisely explained in the book.

In the meantime, you might consider your receiving of the sacraments and discuss it with your priest. It may be that you two will conclude that with this misunderstanding between you and God that you will believe it to be inappropriate to receive. If so, continue to take your children to Mass and Confession (if thet are old enough), and if they ask, just tell them that you and God are discussing some grown-up problems and ask them to pray for you.
 
Busy_sleeper said:
It’s not a sin if you haven’t been given the knowledge that it is a sin, so why am I doomed to hell and others get a free pass because they did not “know.” And furthermore I am thinking of my children. Do I continue to raise them Catholic knowing that they will be taught these things? Wouldn’t I want to save my children from that fate if there happens to be a tragic accident while they still coming to terms with their beliefs in the Catholic faith?
Click to expand...
If you know Catholicism is the True Church, it is a mortal sin to not follow God in catholicism, and to not bring up your children in catholicism, in the True Church

I understand what you’re saying,

You believe;
“If we become catholics we are more in danger of going to Hell because we have full knowledge (one of the conditions of mortal sin).”

That’s completely the way satan would like to tempt you, he would like to tempt you, “If you don’t know its a sin, you can sin and get into heaven because you didn’t have full knowledge (one of the conditions of mortal sin).”

As always the devil is the father of lies.
Everyone has a conscience, you and your children have consciences, so any grave matter that you know is gravely morally wrong, is a mortal sin, if done deliberately and freely. Even if the person be of a different faith or aetheist.

So,
You are not sparing yourself or your children from full knowledge in mortal sin, by not becoming catholic.

But if you do become catholic:
You will be given the FULL GRACES AND SACRAMENTS JESUS LEFT TO THE APOSTLES:
You will have confession! Which forgives mortal sins FOREVER each time
The Eucharist Jesus Trully Present who gives you grace to NOT commit mortal sin.
Holy Water, erases ALL venial sin!

Your children and you will have the cures Jesus wishes you to have, Confession to FORGIVE mortal sins, and Jesus in the Eucharist to KEEP YOU FROM mortal sins.
.
You are afraid of mortal sin and hell,
But Catholicism has the Sacraments to FORGIVE mortal sins, and KEEP people from them through the Eucharist.

Imagine decades from now one of your children or yourself is dying and gets to confess all their mortal sins to a catholic priest before death, receives absolution from Jesus, and has the Pearly Gates of Eternal Paradise opened to them forever!
Or 20 years time, one of your children has a conversion experience and turns from a life of sin to confess their past to a catholic priest in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, receives absolution from Jesus, through the priest, and from thence absolved and is freed forever from past mortal sins!

Catholicism is the cure! Not the condemnation!
 
Busy_sleeper said:
I did not list the issues because I didn’t think it really mattered, both are considered mortal sins, whether or not I believe that they are is the issue. A soul having a mortal sin will go to hell upon death. Correct? So what do I do? It’s not a sin if you haven’t been given the knowledge that it is a sin, so why am I doomed to hell and others get a free pass because they did not “know.” And furthermore I am thinking of my children. Do I continue to raise them Catholic knowing that they will be taught these things? Wouldn’t I want to save my children from that fate if there happens to be a tragic accident while they still coming to terms with their beliefs in the Catholic faith?
Click to expand...
I strongly suggest a good reading of the catechism on the 2 topics you are thinking of.
Unrepentant sin gets you nowhere. Period. Regardless which faith you pursue.
If one is Catholic, one may have sorrow and go to Confession to be absolves of these sins and to make an effort to not commit them again. God is not waiting around to slap unbelievers. You need more study to know the truth of the faith.
There is too much misinformation here to go into. You should meet with the RCIA Director or the pastor to clear things up for you or to guide to informed reading.
One desires a close relationship with Christ. Taking a route that is appears easier will be very disappointing. There are no shortcuts to salvation. Either you believe that God is good and that He desires your happiness and to reside with Him forever in Paradise…or not.
 
Busy_sleeper said:
I did not list the issues because I didn’t think it really mattered, both are considered mortal sins, whether or not I believe that they are is the issue.
Click to expand...
The issues may be grave matter, but to commit a mortal sin requires three things. In addition to grave matter, you must know it’s wrong and choose to do it anyway. No one here is qualified to tell you if you have committed mortal sins – that would be something to discuss with your confessor.

I’m guessing that you don’t think these things are that big a deal and why does the Church care about them so much? And you’re right that some other Christian community may not see them as a big deal either.

One thing that crosses my mind with things like this – and it applies to me too! – is to try and gain some understanding of why the Church teaches what she does.

Some things may be very clear to pretty much everybody. We don’t have big debates about whether it’s OK to lie or steal. But there are other topics that are more complicated, in part because they’re newer. We can’t look to the Ten Commandments to make a decision about whether in vitro fertilization is moral or not. Individuals may have opinions on the topic, but the opinions may or may not be well thought out. But when Church scholars look at the subject, they ask experts, they look to see how traditional teachings apply to this new area, they give it a lot of thought and study.

I may disagree with their conclusions, but I have to at least consider the possibility that I’m wrong. I’m one person who thought about it for a few minutes after reading a Wikipedia article. Maybe my opinion doesn’t carry as much weight as experts who have studied the issue in depth.

Perhaps it would be helpful to read some of the documents that have been written on your topics so that you would better understand the Church’s thoughts.

I can’t tell you how to raise your children. I can only tell you that I consider my faith to be one of the greatest gifts my parents gave me. I hope you will choose to give that same gift to your children.

Edited to add: You provided more information while I was writing this. My example is wrong but I’m going to leave this anyway in the hope that you’ll get some sense of love and support in your struggle.
 
Busy_sleeper said:
That is part of the problem. I do not believe attending the Lutheran church with him and his family occasionally, without attending mass is a grave mortal sin. I am still attending a very similar service and worshiping the same God.
Click to expand...
Imagine that Joe’s mother is in a nursing home and Joe visits her every Sunday… except from time to time He visits his mother’s friend in another nursing home instead.

Joe’s mother feels that even tho he has gone to a similar place and done a similar thing, she herself has not been visited, right?

So go to the Lutheran church for family reasons, but make sure you get to Mass *as well. *
The other issue is “pulling out.” We are currently trying to have another baby, so we are very open to life, but I know that there are certain times of the month when that is not possible. So out of consideration for me and my comfort/cleanliness he will do this so that the rest of the day I am not “messy.” The Lutheran church does not think that either of these are sins, let alone mortal sins.
Click to expand...
Well, that is very nice of your husband. However, what God wants from us is to obey Him, even if it causes a slight inconvenience for someone. We have to do the right thing when it comes up, no matter what the effect is–and if the effect is bad, that is a cross we must carry, no? Like if we saw a person hurt on the side if the road and didn’t stop to help because we’d be late to work if we did. If we stopped and helped and this caused us to lose a customer or even our job, we still did the right thing, and that is the most important part.

So “woman up” and take a fast shower so you two can obey God 🙂

(The book I recommended touches on both these topics, as do a number of threads on CAF, so I hope you will continue to pray and investigate these issues :))

BTW, Welcome ti CAF!!!
 
Imagine that Joe’s mother is in a nursing home and Joe visits her every Sunday… except from time to time He visits his mother’s friend in another nursing home instead.

Joe’s mother feels that even tho he has gone to a similar place and done a similar thing, she herself has not been visited, right?

So go to the Lutheran church for family reasons, but make sure you get to Mass *as well.

I don’t agree with you analogy. If Joe’s mother is GOD here then his mother’s friend in another nursing home is also GOD. Why can’t I visit God in both places?

So “woman up” and take a fast shower so you two can obey God 🙂

No offence, but taking a quick shower is not going to wash “him” out of me. It is unfortunately a slow process that “works itself out” anytime I stand up or move during the day.*
 
Remember, there is “faith,” and there is “religion.”

“Faith,” is a gift. It is God’s revelation of Himself to us, however that may happen.

“Religion,” is our response to “faith.”

So, if you seek to grow in faith, you need to follow the will of Jesus Christ, where ever he may be leading you.

Being a disciple of his means sacrificing our own ideas and agendas, in order to be closer to Him.

Jesus did, establish the Catholic Church which has existed ever since.

This does not mean people of other Christian religions like the Lutheran’s, do not have faith, they do.

However, only the Catholic Church has the fullness of revealed truth, for it is the Church guided by the Holy Spirit, and protected from the gates of hell as Jesus promised.

The only one who can answer the question of what God’s will is for you, is you. You and your husband have to pray and ask for discernment to follow his will.

It may be, he wants you to remain a Lutheran, for that is where he’ll feed you best.

On the other hand, he may be calling you to come into the Catholic Church, for this is where He wants you.

One thing is for sure, you can’t go wrong becoming a Catholic. He will feed you hear, without a doubt.

You will be sacrificing your own ideas and agenda’s becoming Catholic, and this will bring much grace.

Jim
 
The Eucharist.
Simple as that.
You receive Jesus Body Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist at Mass.
No amount of visitations can replace that.
At least not for me.
God bless.
 
JimR,
Thank you for your thoughts. I am a cradle Catholic and my husband went through RCIA but did not join. I think it is wonderful that people of other religions have a choice to join the catholic faith or not. I did not have that choice, “once a Catholic, always a Catholic” as it was previously posted by someone to me. So how is it then that he can continue being a Lutheran and committing these “mortal sins” that only Catholics believe will doom someone. But I cannot even if I become a non-practicing Catholic? We both have been given the knowledge now that he went through the RCIA process.
 
Pianistclare,
I understand the Eucharist and believe it. However I am not allowed to receive it having a mortal sin. Correct? So what am I missing out on if I can’t receive it at mass?
 
Busy_sleeper said:
JimR,
Thank you for your thoughts. I am a cradle Catholic and my husband went through RCIA but did not join. I think it is wonderful that people of other religions have a choice to join the catholic faith or not. I did not have that choice, “once a Catholic, always a Catholic” as it was previously posted by someone to me. So how is it then that he can continue being a Lutheran and committing these “mortal sins” that only Catholics believe will doom someone. But I cannot even if I become a non-practicing Catholic? We both have been given the knowledge now that he went through the RCIA process.
Click to expand...
well, if you now both have the knowledge, then you can’t keep on committing it

even those who don’t have the knowledge are still objectively sinning, the church simply teaches that their culpability may be lessened.

pray about it, ask God to reveal it to you, learn why the church teaches these things
 
Busy_sleeper said:
Imagine that Joe’s mother is in a nursing home and Joe visits her every Sunday… except from time to time He visits his mother’s friend in another nursing home instead.

Joe’s mother feels that even tho he has gone to a similar place and done a similar thing, she herself has not been visited, right?

So go to the Lutheran church for family reasons, but make sure you get to Mass *as well.

I don’t agree with you analogy. If Joe’s mother is GOD here then his mother’s friend in another nursing home is also GOD. Why can’t I visit God in both places?*

When the bread and wine are consecrated in the Catholic Church, they *become *the Real Presence of Christ. He is really there, just as He promised. This is not the case in the Lutheran churches–they don’t even teach that.
So “woman up” and take a fast shower so you two can obey God 🙂
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top