Cradle catholics: why do you think other cradle catholics aren't well catechized?

[ConfusedLucy]

The schools assume the parents are teaching the faith while the parents assume the school is teaching then the faith.

 

[Roguish]

Cradle catholics: why do you think other cradle catholics aren’t well catechized?
If you believe that is the case.

Uh, well, let’s see. I know cradle Catholics who are not aware that confession of one’s mortal sins is a requirement before taking Communion. I kid you not. They were never told. That was catechesis in the post-VC2 decades for ya.

I think I’ll rest my case here.

 

[lilypadrees]

The schools assume the parents are teaching the faith while the parents assume the school is teaching then the faith.

Exactly. And if you’re the product of a mixed marriage (one parent Catholic and the other Protestant), it’s up to the Catholic parent to reinforce the Catholic teaching because the Protestant parent doesn’t know and isn’t able to.

 

[Bluebright]

Some Catholics aren’t well catechised whether they are cradle Catholics or not because after their initial catechism whether than be in their teens for the cradle Catholics or later in life for the coverts they do not carry on learning. To be fair the cradle Catholics will often hit university or college or Technikon or some such and then the parental influence and regular church going they may have had is gone so lapsing starts if it hasn’t already. With converts they could be older and more mature so better able to motivate themselves. I think a lot of cradle Catholics fail to motivate themselves once they leave home and go to university etc. I see these days there seems to be better programs for post school so one hopes this would not happen. But it’s often the sheltered little Catholic’s first encounter with the big ugly world and if they aren’t well prepared and there is nothing there to help them they may fall as they aren’t strong enough. I’d say it can be school or parents and then they themselves flounder. But it’s not always so. Some are well catechised especially if they’ve fallen and come back to the church and learnt everything for themselves ie self motivation.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

I can’t speak for younger Catholics now, but here’s my experience: I’m a cradle Catholic and my CCD education in the 80s and 90s in the United States was terrible. My parents grew up before Vatican II so once it was their turn to turn us over for religious education, they trusted that we would get the same formation that they did.

Not even close. I learned nothing about things like the theological virtues, the gifts of the holy spirit, the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, the difference between mortal and venial sin, I was never taught that attending mass was an actual obligation that is binding under the pain of mortal sin if you deliberately choose not to attend, never learned what a holy day of obligation was, never learned any other prayers besides the Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be and the Creeds. At the very least we learned the 10 Commandments. Mostly we learned a lot of fluff, drew pictures with crayons, and did a lot of arts and crafts. As teenagers we were taught that we “should” wait until marriage to have sex because “true love waits” but there was no discussion of any eternal consequences of adultery and fornication whatsoever. Your obligation to abstain until marriage was taught as a “choice” or a pledge you could write on a card and nothing was said about those who chose to opt out because they didn’t believe in it. I found my mother’s old Baltimore Catechism notebooks from when she was a teenager and I was completely blown away by how much more she learned than I ever did. Even in brief conversation, my quasi lapsed father knew about the mysteries of the rosary at my mom’s wake and the corporal works of mercy when we were discussing burying the dead. His faith at times appears uncertain but without question what he did learn has stayed with him.

I’d ask my classmates that went to CCD if they remember anything but almost all of them out of our class of well over 30 kids stopped being Catholic by time they reached high school or went off to college. Only about 3 of us that I am in contact with are practicing Catholics now.

I can’t speak for others but this was my experience as an American born in the 70s and raised as a kid in the 80s and 90s. Our programs were just not all that solid compared to previous generations. I’m not sure my husband’s was much better (he is European…he didn’t even know what a holy day of obligation was when I told him that we HAD to go to Mass. His answer was “we were never taught that, we never had to do that so I’m not doing it now.” I can’t convince him otherwise and he just didn’t get it. He has a bad history of being abused by nuns and he’s pretty stubborn about discussing religion, sadly. Please pray for him.)

It’s only by the grace of God that I maintained an interest in life as a Catholic that I kept learning on my own but it’s been a long road of catching up. I can’t really speak for other people. There’s a lot of reasons why people don’t always learn the basics, for example one of my in-laws was raised Catholic and took First Communion but after her family divorced that all got dropped. There’s probably a lot of reasons.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

There’s also the fact that we live in a society where classical Christian morality is openly mocked, God is made fun of on television, and the few portrayals of Christians are that they’re either awkwardly pious or an ugly hypocrite.

People are dis-incentivized to learn about Catholicism, because then they might find out they can’t indulge in their favorite sins.

 

[EXdrinker]

If you believe that is the case.

Because 9 of 10 do not know that the immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception and not Jesus’ conception. This after attending the church of the Immaculate Conception for decades.

 

[Dovekin]

I know cradle Catholics who are not aware that confession of one’s mortal sins is a requirement before taking Communion. I kid you not. They were never told. That was catechesis in the post-VC2 decades for ya.

I see that as a failure of pre-VC2 catechesis. Post-VC2 catechesis is more likely on the lines of “God is slow to anger, rich in kindness.” That is the proper basis for the sacrament of Reconciliation, but getting children to connect with it can be tricky.

And that is the problem of catechesis right there, that when a clear message is taught, someone else will contradict it. Is it better to learn how to love, trust and hope than to learn the theological virtues? How can we teach both?

In the US, the separation of church and state meant Catholic schools were entirely the responsibility of the Church. A parish might spend $2k per student per year to teach a full curiculum to some students, while spending next to nothing on the children who attended public schools. 3/4 of children were given a meager catechesis, while Catholic school children had to learn a lot of subjects beyond religion. It was not a recipe for success in catechizing either group.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

Yes, and in my experience, growing up and as teenagers, we often weren’t really left with the strong impression in our religious ed classes that being Catholic actually really mattered. Pretty easy to be lost to the world’s culture and peer pressure when your religious education treats faith as something pleasant, but optional.

 

[Francis]

I think parents have a great role and responsibility to play, especially to teach and catechize the children ,more that depending upon the catechism classes,as they say, parents are the first teachers,lack of family values, prayers ,and encouragement to attend holy Mass, the sacraments, especially the confession, are the main reasons.

Furthermore, another reason is Materialism,parents are busy earning money and have no time for their children,they give least priority to their children’s spiritual life,thus they given more important to worldly priorities, sports or other activities than their concern for their souls,mixed marriages,lack of elders like grand parents, separation ,divorces are few of the reasons for a poorly catechized,to correct this we need to continuously prioritize spirituality a lifelong journey i guess

 

[HeDa]

As a convert I just have to add a few things.

1. There have been major changes in how things are taught in schools compared to previous generations. Older people were taught to memorise a lot but not as much to reflect on what they learnt, why and when to use it. I can see this with my father who was born in the 1940s and how I and my brother (we were born in the 1970s) were taught. Still a lot of memorising but also taught how to use the knowledge. Today, kids are taught how to “research” but they are not taught and told to remember certain facts that are necessary for future studies. It also doesn’t matter if “they don’t remember the basics” as they can always “google”". The problem is then that they can’t “google” because they don’t know what to “google”.
2. There are a lot more Catholics, who come from a country where the Catholic Church was a majority church and where the rest of the society like laws, are in harmony with the Church´s teaching, arriving in a secularised country where the Catholic Church is one among many denominations/religions and where secular laws are sometimes very contradictory to church teachings. This sometimes causes problems with what is allowed and what is not allowed as a Catholic. Secular laws say one thing and people are used to following the law - right?! Problems with abortion, IVF etc etc…
3. A lot of children don’t see their grandparents very often and miss out on listening to stories the older generation by tradition handed on to the next generation. They maybe meet once per year. I have taught kids where the three kids in the same family were born on three different continents due to the parents´ work situation and/or immigration.
4. There have been major scientific developments in the past 40 years that make it a challenge to be Catholic and remain Catholic. Those who haven’t learnt anything more about the Catholic faith after receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation in their teens some 20-40 years ago haven’t learnt how to reflect on the faith from an adult´s perspective.

 

[mVitus]

I’d say it’s probably because at some point we just assumed that the knowledge was diffusing.

I went to a Catholic grade school. And when I look back at a few things from it, it did do a good job with some,of the basics. But it wasn’t enough overall and I lost that foundation for some years. 2nd grade me was excited to receive Jesus at first Communion. High school sophomore me heard a homily about a Eucharistic miracle and the Real Presence and still didn’t make the connection despite it being interesting. And my mother was surprised a year or so ago during a conversation when she learned that for a long time I had forgotten the Hail Mary. Now that I’m doing more active learning I find there are cases where I’ve just relearned what I knew before.

At the same time, I’ve also realized at times that I’ve had a much stronger foundation than many people get. It’s come up in cases where I’ve just assumed something about the Bible, such as Judas betraying Jesus, was basic knowledge. (Disclaimer: I’m still no Bible whiz.) And while I may not have known much, I at least knew prayer. (Even if I didn’t do it for a few years.)

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Because 9 of 10 do not know that the immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception and not Jesus’ conception. This after attending the church of the Immaculate Conception for decades.

Considering that the gospel reading used is the Annunciation, I’m not sure this is surprising.

 

[blackforest]

Our diocese recently decreed that First Communion must be preceded by 2 years of catechesis, as must Confirmation.

It’s an interesting idea. But this discussion may need to be on quality vs. quantity.

Since I already homeschool, my parish allowed me to take their curriculum home. Sorry to sound harsh, but it was JUNK!! It really talked down to 8-year-olds: “God loves you,” “Color the picture,” “Draw a picture of you being nice to someone,” etc.

I can’t imagine how two years of that twaddle would solve the catechesis crisis.

Fortunately, I supplement with a resource that I like a lot better. Preparing to Receive Jesus: A Hands-On Religion Resource (PRJ) | Second Grade - Catholic Heritage Curricula

 

[blackforest]

Is it a crisis of religious ed? It’s a sensitive topic, and I don’t want RE instructors to feel demeaned by it. But there may need to be some serious changes in approach, lesson plans, and curricula.

My RCIA experience was very fluffy and Kumbaya. I had to learn about Catholicism on my own and am still learning.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Even if parishes do a decent job of catechizing children, what happens after confirmation? In my experience, there isn’t much available for adults to have continuing faith formation. Is there any other field where we would think that what you learn by age 16 is sufficient for the rest of your life? If it surprising that people become adults who don’t see their faith as particularly relevant? It really isn’t up to the demands of adult life and situations.

 

[LisaB]

Much of today’s catechesis is very poor, and parents can’t teach their children what they themselves don’t know. I converted in college and learned nothing in RCIA. Had my son two years later. He went to Catholic schools but learned very little there. He still tells me everything he learned about the faith he learned from me, which is scary because I didn’t know enough myself to really teach him properly. So I guess that puts him in poorly catechized category, though he knows more than some.

My faith slowly blossomed when I started going to my FSSP parish, but by then he was older and not very receptive. He knows the difference between mortal and venial sin, knows all the prayers of the (NO) Mass, knows the mechanics of how to pray the rosary but doesn’t know the mysteries and doesn’t actually pray it, goes to Mass weekly and is even a youth leader in his church’s youth group, but doesn’t have a daily prayer life. He knows some theology and occasionally surprises me with a profound statement, but doesn’t know much about the saints, doesn’t know what a brown scapular is, etc. From what he tells me, he is better catechized than many his age.

This is because while we always went to Mass with him, my own faith pretty much consisted of Mass, occasional confession, and reading these forums.

My current parish taught me that the following are the norm for Catholics, not just something “devout” Catholics do: confession monthly or more frequently, wearing a brown scapular or miraculous medal or something blessed around your neck, praying the rosary daily, saying daily prayers, that “oh my God” constitutes taking God’s name in vain and is therefore a grave sin (I didn’t know that till a few years ago when a priest enlightened me in confession!), that shopping for non-essentials on Sundays really does break the 3rd commandment, that gossip is a sin, and other such things I used to think were no big deal. So, this explains why my son isn’t well catechized- I didn’t know much myself when he was growing up.

 

[JimG]

Because 9 of 10 do not know that the immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception and not Jesus’ conception. This after attending the church of the Immaculate Conception for decades.

I recall this coming up one December with a Catholic co-worker. She wass saying that she didn’t understand why the Immaculate Conception was not celebrated nine months before Christmas. I said that “well, because it’s about her conceptiion, not his, and it has nothing to do with sex.”

 

[Guest1]

So if Pre-Vatican 2 was a better time with teaching the Faith…why?

 

[jeannetherese]

There is a reliance on lay teachers who do not necessarily know their faith and thus may, inadvertantly, teach in opposition to the Church.
We are now several generations into lay teachers in religious education so parents may not have the knowledge to catch the errors and reach out to the schools to ask for correction.