Creation or Evolution

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Barbarian observes:
Because web shape is determined by a great number of factors, including temperature, size of the spider, the sort of silk produced, and so on.

No single gene determines all those things. Some are not even determined by genes at all.
Nonsense. Pure fiction.
Well, let’s take a look…

Design variability in web geometry of an orb-weaving spider
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
VOLLRATH F. (1 2) ; DOWNES M. (1) ; KRACKOW S. (2 3) ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Department of Zoology, Universitetsparken B135, 8000 Aarhus, DANEMARK
(2) Department of Zoology, South Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PS, ROYAUME-UNI
(3) Abt. Sinnesbiol. Inst. f. Biol., Humboldt-Universität, Invalidenstr. 43, 10115 Berlin, ALLEMAGNE
Résumé / Abstract
We studied the effect of several variables (environmental and physiological) on web geometry in the garden cross spider Araneus diadematus. Variables were: web support, wind, temperature, humidity, and silk supply. All had an effect. The spiders generally attempted to fit their webs to the shape of the supporting frame (standard, small, vertical, or horizontal). Windy conditions (0.5 m s-1) during web construction caused spiders to build smaller and rounder webs, laying down fewer capture spirals while increasing the distances between capture-spiral meshes. Decreasing temperature from 24° to 12°C caused the capture spiral to have fewer and wider spaced meshes, which did not change overall capture area but reduced the length of capture-spiral threads laid down. Subsequent increase of temperature to 24°C restored the number of meshes laid down, but the wider mesh was retained, causing the capture area to be increased over initial control values. Decreased humidity (from 70 to 20% rH ) had the effect of reducing web and capture-spiral size, the latter by reducing mesh number while keeping mesh spacing constant. Subsequent increase of humidity to control level (70%) restored web and capture area. However, this was achieved by laying down capture meshes at larger distances, rather than returning to initial mesh numbers. Silk supply also had a strong effect. Webs built in unnaturally rapid succession by the same spider (4 in 24 h when I is the norm) became sequentially smaller, had fewer radii, shorter capture spirals, and were wider meshed.

cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2791985

😃

Oh, and there are still pre-web spiders. Wolf spiders, for example.

And evolution of silk-spinning? There’s some evidence…

**Spider webs untangle evolution

Similarity of construction shows ‘convergent evolution’ applies to behaviour.

Roxanne Khamsi

The biologist Stephen Jay Gould famously proposed that if we could “rewind the tape” of evolution and play it again, chance would give rise to a world that was completely different from the one we live in now. But the concept that chance reigns supreme may ring less true when it comes to complex behaviours.**
nature.com/news/2004/041101/full/news041101-4.html
 
Information or instructions about how to do something come from somewhere. Spiders do not go to spider school in order to learn how to spin webs. Observations about how current spiders behave do not point to origins of such behaviors.

Peace,
Ed
 
Information or instructions about how to do something come from somewhere.
Some of it comes from ambient temperature. Some of it comes from the particular silk the spider makes. Some of it comes from the size of the spider, and so on.

Read the report and learn.
 
Not dealing with my points?

Where does the spider get the knowledge to use his silk? The first silk producucing spider did what? How? Who told him?

Learn? I’ve learned that plausible sounding stories are only stories.

Peace,
Ed
 
I really don’t think ambient temperature, and the rest, can hope to account for these web designs and behaviors etc.
Richard Dawkins, Climbing Mount Improbable, Chapter Two - Silken Fetters. His science is good here, and well explained, even if you disagree with his theological views.

rossum
 
**Being absent for a while, I see the topic changed it’s aim and now points at
“Is there God – is God real”

Well, there are many threads in this idea on this Catholoc Forum. Still I wonder, how it could appear such in such forum.
I just answered a similar question in the thread
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4108945#post4108945
“what if God gave us proof?”

If God gave us proof, we’d KNOW by evidence that there is God – is Heaven. If we had this proof that God exists, heaven exists; no faith would be necessary (as we don’t have to have faith to believe that water is wet).

God did give proof of Himself through Jesus Christ in many ways and over and over again (and this even today, if people would be able too recognize God in everything). Why should God give “his majesty the Human” again an extra proof?! Just because we refuse to believe?

If God kept giving us suchlike continuous proof of His existence, the earth would be needless for probation and to actually EARN the chance to live with God in eternity.
We had seen God in Jesus (John 14,9) and now we’d get continuously other proofs we asked for, as we are to stupid to believe the first proofs. Everybody would believe now after a mass of proofs, even he had not deserved it.
We will see in due time (after our death) anyhow what the truth is and always was, and that all our doubts where just blindness to Gods word, and we’ll slam our forehead in saying: OH, OF COURSE – HOW STUPID OF ME. (It’ll be too late then).
And besides, human race will – when having decided not to believe, not believe even when the dead arouse of their graves (Luke 16/31).
**
 
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