Creationism = Dark Ages?

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I have run across the comment that if Intelligent Design/Creation proponents win their chance to return to public schools, the Dark Ages will follow. In some undefined way, teaching evolutionary theory somehow propels science, while teaching ID/Creation would bring the country to a grinding halt scientifically. In an article first published in 1981, Isaac Asimov writes a critique of Creationism, and with the last two paragraphs, outlines what he thinks will happen.

stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/azimov_creationism.html

My view is that he is not thinking clearly and has forgotten the history of science, especially the 1800s when much of the groundwork for modern science was laid.

Peace,
ED
 
I have run across the comment that if Intelligent Design/Creation proponents win their chance to return to public schools, the Dark Ages will follow.
That’s not what Asimov says at all. Instead he argues that

With creationism in the saddle, American science will wither. We will raise a generation of ignoramuses ill-equipped to run the industry of tomorrow, much less to generate the new advances of the days after tomorrow.

We will inevitably recede into the backwater of civilization, and those nations that retain opened scientific thought will take over the leadership of the world and the cutting edge of human advancement.

While I would have qualified that sentiment more carefully, I do agree that if we allow religion to curtail scientific advancement, our nation will suffer as a result.

But in any case, you should probably go back and re-read the article, since you seem to mistakenly think Asimov was saying that we will re-enter the dark ages if creationism is taught in schools.
 
Well, using my own example as a model to apply a real world working example. I am very much a creationist, the how element is where modern science stumbles upon, and it’s due to their lack of understanding about history, which in turn causes all too often, these so called new advancements really are just rediscovering what used to be common knowledge.

My example being, what I do in my field pioneers within it to all new levels, there is serious advancement within it towards a scientific level, and I’m leaving my secular competition to dwell in their own dark ages as they are eating my dust. I regularly run into serious obstacles that entirely baffle the mind as to finding a solution, yet in most cases, it’s divine inspiration not self reliance through pure logic that gets me through those times.

Coming back to pure science, how many times throughout history, where what is considered scientific fact, turned out to be completely wrong? It has happened so often, that it in itself has proven to be unreliable as the ultimate authority, and at best, is used as a tool to help advance knowledge. The fact I have a moral base to proceed forward is the defining factor, it’s not if I can do something, it is if it’s prudent to do so. If it was left unchecked, with no moral core, and you are justifying your means purely by the result no matter how horrendous the means are, clearly you are taking direct opposition to the human factor. We have plenty of examples of this in place today, we have diseases with no cure that were not around until someone decided to pursue endeavors unchecked. We have weapons that can destroy the world over many fold, and these are now falling into the hands of the wrong people. We have our modern scientific focus on so many areas that do no good for the human race what so ever, yet we have so many areas of humanity suffering needlessly entirely because it doesn’t seem profitable for the scientific community to address.

With the creation vs evolution debate, how does a creationist explain the fact, that in tact, unfossilized dinosaur bones are regularly found in tact, what about with the recent finds of human foot print impressions being found right along with dinosaur ones, on the same slab, and of the same carbon date. Evolution teaches that dinosaurs can not in any way exist along the same time line as man, yet in Job, it describes 3 of them? You see how the bible itself has proven itself to be accurate, yet just because we have not discovered the how element within the secular teachings, it is still dismissed, and genesis being one of them they still are deeply troubled over, because it doesn’t fit within their model. It could have easily been written to support evolution, if God decided to use evolution within his plans of creation, but honestly, if he can form the building blocks to life, why stop there, because even those building blocks would require something impossible, just as forming the completed creation, and it’s because that we are limited as man, he is not.
 
Well, using my own example as a model to apply a real world working example. I am very much a creationist, the how element is where modern science stumbles upon, and it’s due to their lack of understanding about history, which in turn causes all too often, these so called new advancements really are just rediscovering what used to be common knowledge.

My example being, what I do in my field pioneers within it to all new levels, there is serious advancement within it towards a scientific level, and I’m leaving my secular competition to dwell in their own dark ages as they are eating my dust. I regularly run into serious obstacles that entirely baffle the mind as to finding a solution, yet in most cases, it’s divine inspiration not self reliance through pure logic that gets me through those times.

Coming back to pure science, how many times throughout history, where what is considered scientific fact, turned out to be completely wrong? It has happened so often, that it in itself has proven to be unreliable as the ultimate authority, and at best, is used as a tool to help advance knowledge. The fact I have a moral base to proceed forward is the defining factor, it’s not if I can do something, it is if it’s prudent to do so. If it was left unchecked, with no moral core, and you are justifying your means purely by the result no matter how horrendous the means are, clearly you are taking direct opposition to the human factor. We have plenty of examples of this in place today, we have diseases with no cure that were not around until someone decided to pursue endeavors unchecked. We have weapons that can destroy the world over many fold, and these are now falling into the hands of the wrong people. We have our modern scientific focus on so many areas that do no good for the human race what so ever, yet we have so many areas of humanity suffering needlessly entirely because it doesn’t seem profitable for the scientific community to address.

With the creation vs evolution debate, how does a creationist explain the fact, that in tact, unfossilized dinosaur bones are regularly found in tact, what about with the recent finds of human foot print impressions being found right along with dinosaur ones, on the same slab, and of the same carbon date. Evolution teaches that dinosaurs can not in any way exist along the same time line as man, yet in Job, it describes 3 of them? You see how the bible itself has proven itself to be accurate, yet just because we have not discovered the how element within the secular teachings, it is still dismissed, and genesis being one of them they still are deeply troubled over, because it doesn’t fit within their model. It could have easily been written to support evolution, if God decided to use evolution within his plans of creation, but honestly, if he can form the building blocks to life, why stop there, because even those building blocks would require something impossible, just as forming the completed creation, and it’s because that we are limited as man, he is not.
it seems the earliest and best origins scientists are and were creationists - twinc
 
While I would have qualified that sentiment more carefully, I do agree that if we allow religion to curtail scientific advancement, our nation will suffer as a result.

But in any case, you should probably go back and re-read the article, since you seem to mistakenly think Asimov was saying that we will re-enter the dark ages if creationism is taught in schools.
You seem to mistakenly think that ID / Creationism (which is not YEC) is religion which will curtail scientific advancement, and our nation will suffer as a result.

You should probably read some good ID information. I am almost finished with “Signature in the Cell” by Meyer, and recommend it for those of you who know that ID is “bad”, but haven’t a clue as to why.
 
That’s not what Asimov says at all. Instead he argues that

With creationism in the saddle, American science will wither. We will raise a generation of ignoramuses ill-equipped to run the industry of tomorrow, much less to generate the new advances of the days after tomorrow.

We will inevitably recede into the backwater of civilization, and those nations that retain opened scientific thought will take over the leadership of the world and the cutting edge of human advancement.

While I would have qualified that sentiment more carefully, I do agree that if we allow religion to curtail scientific advancement, our nation will suffer as a result.

But in any case, you should probably go back and re-read the article, since you seem to mistakenly think Asimov was saying that we will re-enter the dark ages if creationism is taught in schools.
Your logic here escapes me. He says “backwater of civilization” instead of Dark Ages. But he also makes it clear that “We will raise a generation of ignoramuses…” which is an unqualified generalization.

I admire Doctor Asimov’s science books, but what he’s written here is a polemic - a political statement, and he jumps to conclusions, illogical conclusions. This is the worst article I’ve ever read by him.

Peace,
Ed
 
While I donlt think it would send us into the dark ages I definately think it would be a step back. Creationism is not science it should not be taught in science classes .
 
While I donlt think it would send us into the dark ages I definately think it would be a step back. Creationism is not science it should not be taught in science classes .
“Creationism” covers a very wide spectrum. Which version are you talking about?

For example, here are 2 versions.
  1. God was involved in the creation of the universe.
  2. God created the universe 6000 years ago.
 
While I donlt think it would send us into the dark ages I definately think it would be a step back. Creationism is not science it should not be taught in science classes .
I advocate empirical science in the science classroom only.

Testable, repeatable and predictable.

Add mandatory philosophy and metaphysics classes where evolutionism and ID can be discussed.
 
“Creationism” covers a very wide spectrum. Which version are you talking about?

For example, here are 2 versions.
  1. God was involved in the creation of the universe.
  2. God created the universe 6000 years ago.
Quite right - all Catholics by definition are Creationists. How is the sticky question.
 
“Creationism” covers a very wide spectrum. Which version are you talking about?

For example, here are 2 versions.
  1. God was involved in the creation of the universe.
  2. God created the universe 6000 years ago.
Both and I am a person that believes God was involved in the creation of the universe. But discussions of how God was involved in creation belong in a theology class not a science class.
 
Both and I am a person that believes God was involved in the creation of the universe. But discussions of how God was involved in creation belong in a theology class not a science class.
But evolution is a flawed science, yet it’s force fed to you in school with absolutely not even a margin of room of debate upon it. With the fact, creation being taught in our faith, why would we still be objected to this ridicule. One or the other is correct, not both, and this is the sad truth to the matter.
 
Both and I am a person that believes God was involved in the creation of the universe. But discussions of how God was involved in creation belong in a theology class not a science class.
My question was more to your comment that belief in creationism would be “a step back.”

How does belief in God hinder scientific inquiry?

And what if scientific inquiry actually points to the existence of God?
 
My question was more to your comment that belief in creationism would be “a step back.”

How does belief in God hinder scientific inquiry?

And what if scientific inquiry actually points to the existence of God?
Belief in God doesn;t hinder scientific inquiry. But science can;t study God.

How would it point to an existance of a God? And then how could we say what God?
 
Belief in God doesn;t hinder scientific inquiry.
Good to hear that.
But science can;t study God.

How would it point to an existance of a God? And then how could we say what God?
Science cannot say definitively that God exists or not.

ID isn’t out to prove the existence of God.

Science COULD say, perhaps, that e.g. an intelligent purposeful designer is the most plausible explanation for the first life to appear on earth (in contrast to strictly random processes and natural laws). And some non-believers in God might be swayed to take an additional philosophical step and believe in God because of that additional evidence.

Atheists find that prospect to be a terrifying possibility, hence the attack on ID by Dawkins and others.
 
ID proponents seek to allow supernatural explanations for natural phenomena to enter public education- you don’t see that as a problem?
“Okay class, today we’re going to learn about how Posiden sends earthquakes to punish those who don’t burn incense to him.”
 
If we allow supernatural explanations for natural phenomena in public education, you don’t see that as a problem?
“Okay class, today we’re going to learn about how Posiden sends earthquakes to punish those who don’t burn incense to him.”
Where the heck did you come up with that?

ID doesn’t suggest any such thing. And so far as I know, neither do creationists.

That’s quite a straw man you invented there.
 
Where the heck did you come up with that?

ID doesn’t suggest any such thing. And so far as I know, neither do creationists.

That’s quite a straw man you invented there.
Natural phenomena- speciation
Super natural explantion- God did it with magic
 
Natural phenoma- speciation
Super natural explantion- God did it with magic
Where the heck did you come up with that?

ID doesn’t suggest any such thing. And so far as I know, neither do creationists.

That’s quite a straw man you invented there.
 
I don’t believe for a second that real scientists believe in creationism, i suspect most want to make cash.

I can see why a lot of the uneducated religious masses in the US believe it, but anyone that understands science has to understand why creationism is not science.

I love all the folk on this forum that don’t have a clue about science that think anyone should care about their opinion. If you want people to care, then get a PHD and enter the academic arena. However if your a creationist be prepared to have your worked chewed up and spat out by real science ;).
 
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