Creationism v. Intelligent Design v. Evolution

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By the way, I “may not vote on this poll” for some reason. Can someone please put in a vote for evolution on my behalf?

Thanks
Al
 
Al_Moritz said:
By the way, I “may not vote on this poll” for some reason. Can someone please put in a vote for evolution on my behalf?
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I already did, before you even thought of it - see my post #2.

The Buddha moves in mysterious ways. 🙂

rossum
 
Evolution.

The Church thought in the past people with mental illness were possessed by demons and people who committed suicide went to hell. That is not a criticism. The Church cannot be expected to be infallible in scientific or medical matters. The Church grows and learns and the Church is now older and wiser. Consequently, we no longer believe the mentally ill are possessed by demons or those who commit suicide go to hell. No reason why we can’t move on in light of scientific developments.

I believe God created nature and the human race with the ability to evolve. I would stress this is just an opinion. How God did it in the first place doesn’t really matter to me. I’d probably never be able to understand it or explain it.
 
I voted for Creationism, although I also believe in Intelligent Design. I reject the religion of Evolutionism entirely.
 
minkymurph said:
Evolution.

The Church thought in the past people with mental illness were possessed by demons and people who committed suicide went to hell. That is not a criticism. The Church cannot be expected to be infallible in scientific or medical matters. The Church grows and learns and the Church is now older and wiser. Consequently, we no longer believe the mentally ill are possessed by demons or those who commit suicide go to hell. No reason why we can’t move on in light of scientific developments.

I believe God created nature and the human race with the ability to evolve. I would stress this is just an opinion. How God did it in the first place doesn’t really matter to me. I’d probably never be able to understand it or explain it.
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What we do know is that science cannot explain itself or the mind of the scientist!
 
kevin1313 said:
I voted for Creationism, although I also believe in Intelligent Design. I reject the religion of Evolutionism entirely.
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I reject the religion of evolutionism as well. And you are right, for some atheistic scientists evolutionism is a religion, for example for Richard Dawkins.

However, we might want to be a bit discerning here. While atheistic evolutionism is an ideology, evolution (not evolutionism) is good science. As Theodore Dobzhansky said, an eminent evolutionary biologist: “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution”. Being a scientist myself, a biochemist, I can attest that this is a correct statement, and in no way exaggerated.

And there are many evolutionary biologists who believe in God. They are not driven by ideology, but simply strive to do good science,
 
I would take all four

Creationism: God directly creates and intervenes in nature. Yes.
Intelligent Design: Evidence of design (as a function of intelligence) can be observed in nature. Yes.
Evolution: Organisms have adapted and changed in some limited ways over time. Yes.
Other: Life on earth transcends any current scientific paradigm and there are better ideas to explain life than can be found in scientific literature. Yes.
 
minkymurph said:
Evolution.

The Church thought in the past people with mental illness were possessed by demons and people who committed suicide went to hell. That is not a criticism. The Church cannot be expected to be infallible in scientific or medical matters. The Church grows and learns and the Church is now older and wiser. Consequently, we no longer believe the mentally ill are possessed by demons or those who commit suicide go to hell. No reason why we can’t move on in light of scientific developments.

I believe God created nature and the human race with the ability to evolve. I would stress this is just an opinion. How God did it in the first place doesn’t really matter to me. I’d probably never be able to understand it or explain it.
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First, exorcisms have not gone away.

theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-return-of-the-catholic-exorcism/70364/

The Church has infallibly ruled about the age of the universe:

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

Peace,
Ed
 
Al_Moritz said:
I reject the religion of evolutionism as well. And you are right, for some atheistic scientists evolutionism is a religion, for example for Richard Dawkins.

However, we might want to be a bit discerning here. While atheistic evolutionism is an ideology, evolution (not evolutionism) is good science. As Theodore Dobzhansky said, an eminent evolutionary biologist: “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution”. Being a scientist myself, a biochemist, I can attest that this is a correct statement, and in no way exaggerated.

And there are many evolutionary biologists who believe in God. They are not driven by ideology, but simply strive to do good science,
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Dobzhansky himself was an example, he was Russian Orthodox.

His essay is available on the web: Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution. Well worth reading.

rossum
 
edwest2 said:
First, exorcisms have not gone away.

theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-return-of-the-catholic-exorcism/70364/
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True, exorcisms have not gone away. I did not mean to infer we no longer believe these things at all. I was saying the Church has grown in understanding and what was thought to be demon possession in the past, is now understood to be illness. It is not impossible that someone who commits suicide may go to hell because they rejected God, but would not go to hell purely because they committed suicide as was thought in the past. Accepting evidence of evolution does not mean I do not believe Adam and Eve existed at all, or God did not create life at all.
edwest2 said:
The Church has infallibly ruled about the age of the universe:

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

Peace,
Ed
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OK. This post confuses me. Yes, the Church has ruled infallibly that the universe had a beginning, but when it began cannot be determined. It also says the Church has not defined when humans or the world we live in were created; and has not defined whether it was created several billion years ago or a few thousand years ago. Does this quote not state that the Church has not defined infallibly when humans or the world we live in was created? That’s why I’m confused as to why you’ve used this.
 
The reason I added information about the universe is because of posts here and elsewhere about multiple universes and the idea that our universe is eternal. It has a finite age. My point is that the Church can make infallible statements regarding certain things some think belong only in the realm of science.

Peace,
Ed
 
I’m inclined to accept evolutionary theory as a valid scientific doctrine as it pertains to explaining biodiversity. However, I’m not completely discounting teleological explanations (e.g. Intelligent Design) as someone who believes in a supernatural being.
 
Soldier_Of_God said:
I’m inclined to accept evolutionary theory as a valid scientific doctrine as it pertains to explaining biodiversity. However, I’m not completely discounting teleological explanations (e.g. Intelligent Design) as someone who believes in a supernatural being.
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I would go that way too. I accept evolution as a mechanism that allows to adapt to environmental change and many other things. I also accept the supernatural, the power of God which cannot be explained in scientific terms.
 
I believe God created the world.
I do not believe the world created itself.
I have no idea what intelligent design means, something to do with aliens?
 
sea_krait said:
Please, only vote if you’re Catholic.
I’m just trying to attain a statistic. Please be honest.
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This is not a very good poll. When one votes for Intelligent Design, most in this category also believe in micro-evolution. Macro-evolution is mathmatically and statistically impossible; also if you consider the beginning of creation, i.e., the big bang, etc., then how could you not vote for Creationism, too. Sorry, this poll is limited in scope. Ok, we’re hoping Rossum is on board for the following thesis regarding Intelligent Design:

The starting point of the central thesis is:
  1. DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism.
  2. All codes are created by a conscious mind; there is no natural process known to science that creates coded information.
  3. Therefore DNA was designed by a mind.
If you can provide an empirical example of a code or language that occurs naturally, you’ve toppled the proof. All you need is one.

And DNA doesn’t count as a choice, folks, because we are trying to identify one known code or language that occurs naturally to prove that DNA fits logically in that set of objects. :ballspin:
 
rossum said:
Dobzhansky himself was an example, he was Russian Orthodox. His essay is available on the web: Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution. Well worth reading.
rossum
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The starting point of the central thesis is:
  1. DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism.
  2. All codes are created by a conscious mind; there is no natural process known to science that creates coded information.
  3. Therefore DNA was designed by a mind.
If you can provide an empirical example of a code or language that occurs naturally, you’ve toppled the proof. All you need is one.

And DNA doesn’t count as a choice, Rossum, because we are trying to identify one known code or language that occurs naturally to prove that DNA fits logically in that set of objects. Good luck, and God bless . . . :juggle:
 
I think the answer categories here could have used more explanation. People have used these categories to describe various theories and ideas over time. Intelligent design, being the most recent, is probably the narrowest set of ideas, but even that has several lines of argument. Without better defnition, I would tend to respond “all of the above”, because I would assent to some of the arguments made for all of these positions.
 
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