Point 1: No, I would say that a ruthless God used the life of a sentient being to advance his cause. He created her to die for his “plan.” I cannot and will not believe in a God like that. As is usual, I’m told that I just don’t understand the plan (No one does even if there were such a thing). Well, if things like this or the eight-year-old dying in PA, are included in that plan, the I reject the planner.
Point 2: Rape is a horrid crime that the Christian God knew would happen and did nothing about. Why not just make the woman a natural counselor? A good deal less ghastly, so no, her rape was not worth it.
Point 3: The Christian God is omniscient. He wouldn’t have to change anything if he would get it right in the first place. Free will would be a moot point because the world would be Utopian. Free will is used by the various religions in an attempt to explain how a loving, caring, all-knowing, all-seeing and ever present God could allow such absolute horrors. As a deist, I believe in no plan, so I assign no guilt or praise to god…whatever form that takes.
Point 4: I would contend that people have convinced themselves that they are looking at life through heaven’s eyes, but the aren’t. The are viewing the world through a system of indoctrination that for most began before they could speak.
Point 5: I find the shroud interesting because no one has affirmatively shown how it was made. I tend to go with forgery because the image is not that of a middle eastern Jew at the time of Christ.My studies were of Church documents and the Bible in a sincere effort to strengthen my Catholic faith. When I arrived at creation and the notion of plans, etc., the wheels began to fall off. Things simply don’t match up for me.
I thank you for your time, but something is going to have to occur that somehow shows me that the standard account is fact. Personally, I doubt that because reason and logic are against it, and I refuse to believe in an “enemy god.”
John
Point 2: Would a natural counselor have the same empathy and warmth and understanding that someone who went through this horrible ordeal have John?
When I was in my early twenties I was extremely depressed and suicidal, the only thing that kept me from going all the way is my Faith in God, but because of my ordeal im better able to be there for people that are suicidal now, in a way that no naturally empathetic person ever could be, because I have the experience of the ordeal, you just cant beat that. Again your looking at life through earthly eyes John.
It sounds to me like every time something bad happens you want God to just prevent it all.
This reminds me of a movie I saw once.
Bruce Almighty in which Bruce was ticked off at God for not answering his prayers, so God came down and gave him his powers for a while. Bruce promptly answered everyones prayers and soon the whole world was a mess. When things got out of hand, he turned to God and said “I dont understand what went wrong, all I did was give them exactly what they wanted” God smiled and said “since when do people really want what Good for them”
Point 5 how do you figure that the image is not the image of a middle eastern Jew, when experts have looked at the image and determined that it is. It fit the match in many ways.
The sudarium of oveido matched up perfectly in blood stains with the shroud of turin head image right down to the nose length which is 8 centimeters.
If you say that the shroud image doesnt look like that of a middle eastern Jew then you havent really studied the shroud much. Remember when that history show came out called the face of Jesus when a digital artist made out what Jesus’s face would look like from the shroud image? Well after I saw that it looked like many levantine middle eastern people that I know. That face could have faced for Jewish, palestinian, Jordanian or syrian.
You really need to study the shroud more. Here is a great resource blog site that will help.
theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/
Numerous orthodox Jews who have studied the shroud and believe in its authenticity never said that it doesnt look like a middle eastern Jew, in fact they said the opposite.
Barrie Schwortze who is an orthodox jew and member of the Sturp team in fact
Point 3: you cant have love without free will. Love is a choice.If God automically created a society where People will not have the choice to do good or bad then they are basically robots and they cant possible love. What kind of world would that be?
Sounds to me like you (a human being in a finite existence) disagree with the way God is running things and that you believe that you can do it better.
Does it make sense that a person who is living in this realm who cant see things unfolding instantly can do it better then an all powerful, all Knowing God that can see things unfolding past, present and future in front of them ? That is a bold assumption John
How do you know that all of this wasnt all part of God’s plan in the first plan
Point4: please prove this to me? This seems to me like an assertion that you cant prove.
Do you believe that rape is wrong? If so how can you even believe its wrong if you believe that morals are nothing but indoctrinations. IF you dont believe in objective moral standards then rape is no different then me eating an ice cream sandwich on a Saturday.
Point 1. You need to realize that the girl didnt really die in the true sense of the word death. Im sure that girl is in heaven with God right now. If shes in heaven right now with God then wpuldnt you say that she is in a much better place then you or me? I dont know about you John, but ill take heaven with God over this existence any day of teh week and twice on sundays. This is what I mean by looking at life through heaven’s eyes. Your looking at the short term pain while avoiding the long term eternal Love
In an amoral universe moral protests are meaningless.