Creeds of men that the lord found abominable...from an lds explanation.

[why_me]

Hey Eric,

As you suggest, I do not admit that Catholic atrocities remotely approach what our detractors tend to believe, but beyond that, if I did, bad behavior in the inspired Scriptures does not easily lend itself to an assumption of lost priesthood authority.

Rory

Poor Eric got burned out reading the posts. When someone new comes on this forum, especially a mormon, hoping to explain the mormon faith against catholic claims and these posts are long or even somewhat short, the poster will burn out in no time. First, people do not actually contemplate the thought. Second, people do not want answers. I have never seen a catholic on the mormon threads change their minds. In fact, they can make the same claim two months later, overlooking the mormon response. And third, most people here are just widdling time away…releasing pent up aggression in various ways.

I make my posts short and sweet and I am still here after 4, 000 posts. It is the only way to survive. And not let what people may write bother me.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Poor Eric got burned out reading the posts. When someone new comes on this forum, especially a mormon, hoping to explain the mormon faith against catholic claims and these posts are long or even somewhat short, the poster will burn out in no time. First, people do not actually contemplate the thought. Second, people do not want answers. I have never seen a catholic on the mormon threads change their minds. In fact, they can make the same claim two months later, overlooking the mormon response. And third, most people here are just widdling time away…releasing pent up aggression in various ways.

I make my posts short and sweet and I am still here after 4, 000 posts. It is the only way to survive. And not let what people may write bother me.

Hey why me. I don’t know if it is a virtue to “survive”. You are here after 4,694 “short and sweet” posts since 2007 while I have contributed less than 10% that number since 2004.

I have been criticised for lengthy posts that are said to be too hard to understand. I try to be understood. I have no other motive for my writings. I am not interested in impressing anyone. I am not a teacher. I’m not educated. I’m a garbage man by trade. I don’t start off with any pretenses about being smarter than you, “poor Eric”, or any of the other Mormons who seem to all have graduated from law school, medical school, or have other advanced degrees. He’s burned out? Too bad. Not the fault of the garbage man.

But I am dismayed to see you think soren is merely trying to impress anyone, or use big language that doesn’t make any sense. What he said about humanism and secularism was a perfect and simple observation given LDS views about God and man. It was really good and pretty easy stuff. I know this because I got it. You guys are materialists. You think man and God are the same species. This has philosophical implications that seems to be verified by independent experience with your expressed beliefs.

I can remember years ago some of us taking this philosophy test at some other site and then reporting our findings at ZLMB. All the strong Mormons were associated with names like Sartre, Ayers, and others that are diametrically opposite to Augustine and Aquinas where I ended up without really trying, just answering the questions. There is no need to resist the categorization. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re wrong in and of itself. As with the atheism thing, it seems to me that you aren’t paying attention to what is being said while attaching pejorative connotations that do not necessarily apply.

Regards,

Rory

 

[campeador]

I make my posts short and sweet…

 

[catholic-rcia]

I am sorry to hear about your good friend. Usually mormon parents do not disown their children because they leave the lds church. It was a big mistake by her parents. And usually the process of name removal is not problematic. But since it goes from ward to salt lake it may take awhile.

Again sorry about the loss of your friend.

I have been helping with the RCIA / Conversion here in Northern Utah for 12 years now.
why me only if you would like will I discuss what I have seen, witmessed with those leaving the LDS faith to become Catholic, and the reaction of thier families as to being disowned. Not all negative.

Its at least a one year journey to Baptism. All about getting to know Jesus prior.

Let me know

 

[why_me]

I have been helping with the RCIA / Conversion here in Northern Utah for 12 years now.
why me only if you would like will I discuss what I have seen, witmessed with those leaving the LDS faith to become Catholic, and the reaction of thier families as to being disowned. Not all negative.

Its at least a one year journey to Baptism. All about getting to know Jesus prior.

Let me know

I understand that. But you do know that it is a two way street. It also happens to catholics who convert to mormonism. Family is disappointed and disowns the convert. But it is not supported by the catholic church and it is not supported by the lds church. That was my point.

 

[why_me]

<<<< short and sweet and full of love…

 

[catholic-rcia]

I understand that. But you do know that it is a two way street. It also happens to catholics who convert to mormonism. Family is disappointed and disowns the convert. But it is not supported by the catholic church and it is not supported by the lds church. That was my point.

That is true. I will save you from my stories.

One common thing I have found with the converts to Mormonism is that they were not taught the depth of the doctrines of the LDS Church. The ones I have encountered learned about the huge differences in Theology after they were baptized. In most cases this is why they left. It is common.

Whereas the depth of the Catholic doctrines is clearly taught prior to a Catholic Christian baptism. By the time they accept the Cross, then baptism they have a good understanding of authentic Christianity. After Baptism these things taught are confirmed deeper if the continue to go to Mass, utilize the Sacrament of Confession, Listen to the Gospel read, and receive Holy Communion. We have a very good rate of retention.

 

[fkjuliano]

Before we get carried away, I think that the key for the mormon concept of apostacy is found in a sentence that Joseph Smith stated as taken from the article I linked to in my OP:

In an account dictated in 1832 to Frederick G. Williams, the Prophet Joseph related how the Savior had told him that “the world lieth in sin at this time and none doeth good.” The Lord further said, “They draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me.” (Backman, First Vision, p. 157.)

“They draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me”. Would this be true for christianity in 1820 when we consider christian history? I believe that this sentence is the key to the mormon belief of apostacy. It is not just about creed but how we do life in our daily existence. Certainly when we look at christians persecuting and killing other christians, we might be able to see some truth in that sentence.

Why isn’t this poster honest enough to admit he’s a Mormon? I have seen dozens of posts by him defending Mormonism, yet he proclaims his religion to be the meaningless phrase “happy go lucky”. It seems to me his intent is to present himself as a “neutral” party, and then introduce Mormon doctrines as just common sense or as an attempt to be accurate.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Why isn’t this poster honest enough to admit he’s a Mormon? I have seen dozens of posts by him defending Mormonism, yet he proclaims his religion to be the meaningless phrase “happy go lucky”. It seems to me his intent is to present himself as a “neutral” party, and then introduce Mormon doctrines as just common sense or as an attempt to be accurate.

Well it is an improvement he used to say he was Catholic while proselytizing and apologizing for Mormonism.

 

[why_me]

That is true. I will save you from my stories.

One common thing I have found with the converts to Mormonism is that they were not taught the depth of the doctrines of the LDS Church. The ones I have encountered learned about the huge differences in Theology after they were baptized. In most cases this is why they left. It is common.

Whereas the depth of the Catholic doctrines is clearly taught prior to a Catholic Christian baptism. By the time they accept the Cross, then baptism they have a good understanding of authentic Christianity. After Baptism these things taught are confirmed deeper if the continue to go to Mass, utilize the Sacrament of Confession, Listen to the Gospel read, and receive Holy Communion. We have a very good rate of retention.

Well, this is true and not true. I would agree with the mormon missionary discussions. But the purpose of the missionary discussions is to give the investigator the basics. And then they are asked to pray about the book of mormon. If they can a confirmation of its truthfulness, they can be asked if they want to be baptized. It depends on Holy Ghost confirmation. It goes like that.

In the lds faith it is about receiving a witness of the book of mormon’s truthfulness. In RCIA classes parts of catholic doctrine and dogma are gone over. But of course some things are left out…mainly history and problematic happenings. But I don’t think that the potential converts are asked to pray about the catholic church’s truthfulness as the mormons do.

 

[why_me]

Why isn’t this poster honest enough to admit he’s a Mormon? I have seen dozens of posts by him defending Mormonism, yet he proclaims his religion to be the meaningless phrase “happy go lucky”. It seems to me his intent is to present himself as a “neutral” party, and then introduce Mormon doctrines as just common sense or as an attempt to be accurate.

And if you notice, no one has answered my question about what is in red. Was god pleased with the churches that represented christianity up to 1820?

And was this statement basically true?

“They draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me.”

 

[SirThomasMore]

And if you notice, no one has answered my question about what is in red. Was god pleased with the churches that represented christianity up to 1820?

And was this statement basically true?

“They draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me.”

That would certainly explain the LDS Church

 

[why_me]

Why isn’t this poster honest enough to admit he’s a Mormon? I have seen dozens of posts by him defending Mormonism, yet he proclaims his religion to be the meaningless phrase “happy go lucky”. It seems to me his intent is to present himself as a “neutral” party, and then introduce Mormon doctrines as just common sense or as an attempt to be accurate.

I will tell you a secret…when I first came to this forum it was to learn and dialogue on things catholic. I would probably be at home on the catholic living threads. But unfortunately, when I clicked on non-catholic religions and read the negative statements about the lds church, I had to defend the lds church. It is really that simple. But I would much rather be on the catholic living threads.

And yes, the former mormon catholics do have an agenda in starting mormon threads as well as the never mormon catholics. But to be honest, I see no worth in being constantly negative about another’s religion. It doesn’t bring peace nor charity. Just contention.

 

[why_me]

That would certainly explain the LDS Church

And the other churches? :hey_bud:

 

[SirThomasMore]

And the other churches? :hey_bud:

The Catholic Church is THE Church set up by Christ. Other Churches cannot claim that, but most protestant Churches DO worship the true God. The LDS Church follows false prophets and worships a false god.

 

[zerinus]

I do think that Mormonism is a very American religion. But many restorationalist church movements were popular at the time of it’s inception. The following describes why restorationalism was so popular in the 1800’s in America and is from:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening

"The ideal of restoring a “primitive” form of Christianity grew in popularity in the U.S. after the American Revolution. This desire to restore a purer form of Christianity played a role in the development of many groups during the Second Great Awakening, including the Mormons, Baptists and Shakers. Several factors made the restoration sentiment particularly appealing during this time period.

To immigrants in the early 19th century, the land in America seemed pristine, edenic and undefiled – “the perfect place to recover pure, uncorrupted and original Christianity” – and the tradition-bound European churches seemed out of place in this new setting.

The new American democracy seemed equally fresh and pure, a restoration of the kind of just government that God intended.

Many believed that the new nation usher in a new millennial age.

Independence from the traditional churches of Europe was appealing to many Americans who were enjoying a new political independence.

A primitive faith based on the Bible alone promised a way sidestep the competing claims of all the many denominations available and find assurance of being right without the security of an established national church."

How does that explain the Book of Mormon? How does it explain the angel Moroni? How does it explain the restoration of the priesthood? How does it explain the visitation by Moses to restore the key of the gathering of Israel in the last days? How does it explain the visitation by Elijah to restore the key of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers? How does it explain the building of temples and the ordinances that take place therein . . . and lots more?

 

[why_me]

The Catholic Church is THE Church set up by Christ. Other Churches cannot claim that, but most protestant Churches DO worship the true God. The LDS Church follows false prophets and worships a false god.

Does the episcopal church worship the one true god by ordaining gay bishops? And do the other protestant churches worship the one true god, if they ordain women pastors? And if they do allow these things are these protestant churches following false leaders?

 

[SirThomasMore]

How does that explain the Book of Mormon?

A book written by Joseph, Oliver and Sidney, using other sources inclusing the KJV Bible

How does it explain the angel Moroni?

A lie

How does it explain the restoration of the priesthood?

A lie about something that was not needed

How does it explain the visitation by Moses to restore the key of the gathering of Israel in the last days?

a lie about something that was not needed

How does it explain the visitation by Elijah to restore the key of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers?

a lie about something that was not needed

How does it explain the building of temples and the ordinances that take place therein . . . and lots more?

Waste of time and money

 

[SirThomasMore]

does the episcopal church worship the one true god by ordaining gay bishops?

they worship the true god and are in error

and do the other protestant churches worship the one true god, if they ordain women pastors?

they worship the true god and are in error

and if they do allow these things are these protestant churches following false leaders?

they have no true authority, but they are not false prophets

 

[why_me]

Thus we may have an apostacy in the protestant churches.